MCE 0810 / Blu Ray

[Amathus]

Skeptic,

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. The Intel M$ alliance is trying to do the latter. Was Abe Lincoln Wrong - histrory proves NOT!

Soldier on and we will triumph!

[indulis]

...
I agreen with Cloinjones. We pay for the damn hardware so what is the issue with  having Linux HDCP or whetever decrytion is necessary to effect BD playback?.

Ok HDCP is a way of encrypting data as it goes between the computer and the display.

It runs over an HDMI interface.  A display which is HDCP compliant will receive digital encrypted video over HDMI.  It will also receive high-def (1080 i/p) OK via HDMI.  Or at a push via VGA (latest Samsungs and LGs do anyway, Panasonic has crippled the latest Plasmas and LCDs to only go up to 768 lines so you can't do 1:1 mapping). 

I don't believe there is any rule that says that if a computer puts out 1080 line video via HDMI that the display will reject it.  AFAIK the way it works is that an HDCP/DRM-enabled computer with DRMed OS and DRMed player software will reject any attempt to display more than 720 lines to a display that is not HDCP. 

Summary- if your computer and OS and player are not DRMed so are not going to use HDCP (cos you have to pay and sign a license with the red man with the pitchfork and never touch anything open source again), then your computer should be able to send anything it likes to the TV/display. "High-definition digital video sources must not transmit protected content to non-HDCP-compliant receivers" (says Wikipedia).  So it is about the computer rejecting a non-HDCP display, not the other way around.

If you get a legal copy of some HD video that is unencrypted, you can display it in full glorious 1080i/p.  Probably via HDMI.  So there should be no technical reason LinuxMCE cannot display 1080 line content that you  got onto your disk from an unencrypted Bla-Ray disc or however.

I am happy to be shot down in flames cos that is just my understanding of it. No need for flames apparently Phoronix tested 1080p from a Linux computer to a Sharp LCD 1080 line TV (YMMV), over HDMI.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=942&num=1

Anyway you can always go VGA or DVI rather than HDMI.  Not that much worse than the HDMI alternative, and in many cases this lets you do 1:1 mapping between graphics card pixels and display pixels and cut out the TVs stupid attempts at upscaling your nice crisp computer generated video by 5% (called overscan).  1:1 is often impossible using HDMI inputs but is possible with VGA/DVI. This will probably make more of a difference- getting 1:1 mapping right with DVD, rather than going Blah-Ray.

[colinjones]

Indulis - I think you have gone off on a bit of a tangent here. We are talking specifically BD, not simply HD. Nobody is saying we can't do HD (or at least that is a separate discussion that we can have with Dave/Rodercot!), the issue is encrypted BluRay disks (basically all of them) and that the encryption is effectively from the surface of the disk right through to the display device.

That encryption inherrently precludes the interception of the stream required for a media centre to do its job. The current approach is to rip the content, so that the encryption can be stripped, then play the content in the normal manner. Yes, its clunky and from what I have read here (haven't tried it myself) probably does actually work in many cases. But the discussion is about content protection and DRM in the BD world, not specifically about HD content. We need BD hardware that will allow us to play content directly from the disk without requiring the HDCP endpoint on the display.... I'm sure China is on the case as we speak

[hari]

can we please stop mixing AACS and HDCP? And jfyi, HDCP also protects some DVI outputs. Regarding china, somehow I don't think you will get the proper AACS keys for your player, if you do not implement HDCP and analog downgrade in a way MPAA thinks is good for us customers.

br hari

[domotiqa.com]

A question:
would it be illegal to rip BD to hdd (temp folder), to play the file that is being ripped, then when stop the movie (or even goes to the end of the movie, or eject the BD), the file is delete!

[Zaerc]

A question:
would it be illegal to rip BD to hdd (temp folder), to play the file that is being ripped, then when stop the movie (or even goes to the end of the movie, or eject the BD), the file is delete!

In "the land of the free" that would be considered circumventing a copy-protection mechanism, which is illegal under the (relatively) new MAFIAA sponsored legislation called DMCA.

[Amathus]

This seems to be a hot topic. I agree with colin jones. This is not an issue of playing back 1080p HD content (I am doing that now - recorded HD content from a FTA digital TV station plays back nicley - but am experiencing 100% CPU usage which is a worry on a Quad Core AMD 2.2Ghz Phenom / 2GB 1066 RAM). It is a matter of playing back 1080p HD content from a HDCP complint blu ray disc. Whilst I appreciate  what Indulis is saying and it sounds logical re DVI or VGA,  I do not believe this will achieve 1080p playback from an encrypted HDCP compliant blu ray disc. Prove me wrong please!

Ripping to HDD and stripping away the encryption is a very cummbersome and tiring effort, not worth considering really. As someone stated "In the land of the free" - we are not "free" to back up a $40 BD disc - huh? Says who? - Says a consortium of greedy multinationals grouping together to monopoloize an indusrty. Also, if you cannot legally rip the disc to a media center (Linux or whatever) what in the name of pete is the use of a media center?

Recall the anti trust issues with explorer - it reeks of this stench. Legal issues aside & personal feelings put to rest, I do not believe that at present Linux MCE as it stands will play back a HDCP compliant Blu Ray disc from a blu Ray ROM player. I have tried it and it does not work. The link http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=942&num=1 has nothing to do with BD playback and HDCP.

Whilst BD uptake here (Ausralia) is feeble at present - no doubt it will be hit hard within the next 6 months 'coz it's getting a LOT of attention via the press etc and as such if MCE does not address it, the MCE  will be second best in this regard - after all it's all about the media!

 

[tschak909]

Wrong again. This system is a smart home platform. Media only comprises 20% of the entire system. With that said, We can only do what we can do from within the context of the legal system. If someone outside the USA wants to implement enhanced BD functionality, then they can. Nothing stopping them. But those of us in the US can neither develop nor legally use such implements.

-Thom

[Amathus]

I can only hope that a large influential company or group takes this up and gets the fair use laws changed to force companies to allow people to copy their own stuff.  Unlikely I know, but as media centers become more and more popular, more and more people are going to demand the ability to put the movies and such they pay for on their media center.

Everyone knows protection doesn't stop piracy, yet these companies continue to use DRM to prevent honest people for accessing what they pay for.  The music industry has gone this way, we just need movies and cable companies to follow suit.  I know, preaching to the choir.

Fully agreed mate. There MUST be a civil law action circumventing what these multinational greed mongers are doing. If enough people boycot and make the movie and BD industry suffer (as they did with the music industry) they will listen intently.  It is only when the lining of their pockets wears thin of our money that they will listen. I suggest they stop paying lousy actors $15M ($5M is not enough?) a movie and focus more on fair trade to keep their thus far  sheep like mentality consumers loyal. Wake up world,  HDCP is corporate disctatoriship and will NOT stop piracy.

[Amathus]

Wrong again. This system is a smart home platform. Media only comprises 20% of the entire system. With that said, We can only do what we can do from within the context of the legal system. If someone outside the USA wants to implement enhanced BD functionality, then they can. Nothing stopping them. But those of us in the US can neither develop nor legally use such implements.

-Thom

Well, you are partially right. Of all new homes built in Australia (145,000 per annum) only 1.9% have any smart home enhancments at all - a pitiful penetration.  Stateside may be higher - dunno. Putting it this way the Media takes the stage. People want to be entertained first, then they worry about lighting control & security cams. Enhancing BD fucntionality outside of the USA I believe is also illegal as the Intel / MSTF machine reigns with a big stick and soft voice everywhere - but you may be right, someone,  somewhere in China, Moscow, Taiwan or Timbucktoo will up the anti. We can only pray.

[hari]

This seems to be a hot topic. I agree with colin jones. This is not an issue of playing back 1080p HD content (I am doing that now - recorded HD content from a FTA digital TV station plays back nicley - but am experiencing 100% CPU usage which is a worry on a Quad Core AMD 2.2Ghz Phenom / 2GB 1066 RAM). It is a matter of playing back 1080p HD content from a HDCP complint blu ray disc. Whilst I appreciate  what Indulis is saying and it sounds logical re DVI or VGA,  I do not believe this will achieve 1080p playback from an encrypted HDCP compliant blu ray disc. Prove me wrong please!

CAN WE PLEASE STOP MIXING AACS AND HDCP?!?

AACS == MPAA crap, used to encrypt stuff on the disc
HDCP == Intel crap, used to encrypt stuff on TDMS (DVI or HDMI)

And if you buy this crap and even say thats important for LMCE, it is just you who supports the restrictive crap with your money.

br hari