How to make proper template for multichannel audio receivers (MArantz as example

[bulek]

Hi,

since I have 710B4 on one of my machines now, I'm slowly gathering all needed info to make template for audio receiver...

After a year or so, it is not clear to me how to properly implement template for such device that includes all sorts of "embedded devices".

Let me start with basic description of capabilities :

1. Outputs

A. device as single audio output

 A.1 7+1 channel amplified output
 A.2 Line out that has same music as A.1, but can be swithced on/off and volume controlled separately with serial commands

B. device as multiroom audio output (two separate and controlable outputs) - this is how I use it at the moment to feed 2 audio zones)

 A.1 5+1 channel amplified output
 A.1 2 channel amplified output on last two speakers terminals with own commands for volume,source and other control...
 A.3 Line out that has same music as A.1, but can be swithced on/off and volume controlled separately with serial commands

So basically to cover both cases I have 3 possible outputs :

 O.1 normal main audio output (either 7+1 if A and 5+1 if B)
 O.2 secondary stereo amplified output (last two outputs from A.1 are made as separate amplified stereo output with its own serial commands, volume and source control..)
 O.3 Line out that has same music as O.1, but can be switched on/off and volume controlled separately with own serial commands, so could be used for externally amplified replication of main output...

Basic distinction is that all 3 possible outputs have separate serial commands for volume and source control(not O3) etc...

2. Inputs

Outputs O.1 and O.2 can select one of possible sources independently - (I'm not sure if they can select separate FM stations on Tuner input) - so basically this is true multi channel audio feature. If they select same source, then same music is heard on each... But again serial commands for selecting inputs differ for each output....

LMCE has already prepared FM and AM Tuner devices templates (which I don't understand quite well, but no docs available), but I'm not sure if they are usable in such situation.

3. How to make usable template out of this ?

What I'm currently thinking is : - Marantz receiver being parent device - have child devices for each output (O.1-O.3), each from different template, cause they have separate commands for each

But questions arise : - each output could be placed into separate audio zone - but I'm not sure if this can be done with children of same parent ? - how to dispatch commands to each child ? - is it convenient to use tuner devices as well ?

And probably there are some more problems to be solved.

Any opinion ?

P.s: have posted same text on Wiki also....

Thanks in advance,

regards,

Bulek.

[hari]

i readded my marantz template to the fresh b4 installation from yesterday and asked the same question to myself. I don't use the MR feature atm so i just added the commands i need for now.

I assume the MR output should be implemented as child device. The device data could specify output 2, 3 (for the 8000 series), whatever. The "handle command for child" command from the parent would handle commands and substitute them for Marantz MR serial commands. The child device could then be assigned to another EA.
As the child does not implement ruby commands itself it could be defined in a general way also usable for non Marantz receivers.

any thoughts?

best regards,
Hari

[bulek]

i readded my marantz template to the fresh b4 installation from yesterday and asked the same question to myself. I don't use the MR feature atm so i just added the commands i need for now.

I assume the MR output should be implemented as child device. The device data could specify output 2, 3 (for the 8000 series), whatever. The "handle command for child" command from the parent would handle commands and substitute them for Marantz MR serial commands. The child device could then be assigned to another EA.
As the child does not implement ruby commands itself it could be defined in a general way also usable for non Marantz receivers.

any thoughts?

best regards,
Hari

Agree... few comments :
 - what device would be suitable for child device for single stereo channel output? I guess it would be wise to have some generic device defined for this, since it doesn't process any commands.

if we do it this way, we loose pretty easy addition of Ruby codes onto templates (wit those simple one line statements to send something on serial)...

At the moment it's not clear to me, how is Marantz handling more outputs (can those serial commands be well formally described or not), but one way would be to have child GSD device with filled custom serial commands - in this manner more users can change/contribute to that template... and simply add another ones if needed (line out is other example)... so maybe in this case it would be better to have MR and Normal output as two child devices and one parent device... But I'm not sure if more GSD devices can share serial line....

Hmm, many questions....

I'm looking forward to further discussion. This is also important for all other media devices.... I've asked Aaron to post few comments and maybe declare right implementation for such device support.


Thanks in advance,

regards,

Bulek.

[aaron.b]

How is this different from the Yamaha (device template for a/v receiver with rs232 control)?  I have a Yamaha receiver, which also has multiple output zones, and the template worked ok last time I tried it; admittedly a while ago since I don't use the Zone 2 outputs regularly.  But it did show up as a separate entertainment area/zone as I recall.  As I remember, I did something like put the main zone in the living room, and the 2nd zone in the kitchen.  Then in the kitchen if I choose 'cable/sat', it turned on the cable/sat box and fed it out zone 2, and in the living room if I choose to play media on my md, or listen to fm, it would come out zone 1. 

[bulek]

How is this different from the Yamaha (device template for a/v receiver with rs232 control)?  I have a Yamaha receiver, which also has multiple output zones, and the template worked ok last time I tried it; admittedly a while ago since I don't use the Zone 2 outputs regularly.  But it did show up as a separate entertainment area/zone as I recall.  As I remember, I did something like put the main zone in the living room, and the 2nd zone in the kitchen.  Then in the kitchen if I choose 'cable/sat', it turned on the cable/sat box and fed it out zone 2, and in the living room if I choose to play media on my md, or listen to fm, it would come out zone 1. 

Thanks Aaron for all the info... Lesson learned, will study this example (had no clue that this already exists...).

I'd just kindly ask if you can give one more sentence of info on those settings (in Yamaha device template)  - particularly those after 'Extra' :

Device Template Related
#1753    Tuner - OTARadio    My Child    Extra       186|Tuner - OTARadio|P|166||1|0|E|P|166||2|0    
#1867    Zone                         My Child         Extra    12|2|186|Zone 3    
#1867    Zone                         My Child         Extra    12|1|186|Zone 2    

- What do they mean ?

Thanks in advance,

regards,

Bulek.

[hari]

thats the device data for the child..
so it creates a device from template 1867, device data #12 becomes "2" and the name (#186) is "Zone 3"..

best reagards,
Hari

[bulek]

thats the device data for the child..
so it creates a device from template 1867, device data #12 becomes "2" and the name (#186) is "Zone 3"..

best reagards,
Hari

Thanks for info... So I guess they can stay the same also for Marantz ?

The last puzzle that is missing:
- how to support Line out - basically it has the same audio source as main zone, but own volume control and on/off control. If I just put it into some audio zone, I guess it won't work, cause I'd probably have to start media player in that zone...
For instance if you are in audio zone covered with externally amplified line out, then you can't get volume controls on Orbiter screen unless some sort of media player is running... Any simple trick to get volume controls ?

One option is probably to make media scenarios with those commands...

Thanks in advance,

regards,


Bulek.

[darrenmason]

Bulek,

I was thinking about the last bit when I first saw your post.

I am guessing that you will need another device that only handles on/off and volume controls.
It would also be a child and placed in another room, much like the others.

It is similar to a plain amplifier component (ie; no pre-amp). Is there any examples of devices like this?

It would not need code as I assume the parent device would remain the DCE device and still handle all its command requests.

Interested to see how you get on with all this, please keep us updated.

Regards
Darren

[bulek]

Hi,

have made few steps further with template supporting multiroom feature, so far it seems quite promising:
- have created 2 child devices for two zones as Aaron suggested and is done in Yamaha template... Then connected my second MD to child device for second zone via audio pipe...
- when I'm in Orbiter audio media screen for that zone, volume/mute controls work ok
- I'm still missing automatic input selection....
- I cannot figure out, why I'm getting off command to Xine and On and Input select commands to Marantz receiver (quite opposite to expected Off).

I've described pretty much in this mantis thread :

http://mantis.linuxmce.org/view.php?id=3910

Any help, opinion ?

Thanks in advance,

regards,

Bulek.