Is Linux MCE better than Pluto?

[Mike_Izisys]

Hi,

I new to the whole Linux approach for MC, but I'm really impressed with what you can do vs Microsoft MCE.

At this point I have two options: LinuxMCE or Pluto.  Is one better and why?

Thanks
Mike

[sharlee_angelo]

linuxmce has new features and bugs solved. so, yes, it's better than pluto right now.

[Cj_MaN]

LinuxMCE 1.1 runs on Kubuntu 7.04, so you can use LinuxMCE and kde for browsing the web, talking with friends by IM, working in Open Office etc...
With pluto you can use only pluto, you don't have Gnome or Kde installed.

[padrino]

Hi,

I new to the whole Linux approach for MC, but I'm really impressed with what you can do vs Microsoft MCE.

At this point I have two options: LinuxMCE or Pluto.  Is one better and why?

Thanks
Mike

I have used Pluto for quite some time and although LinuxMCE is using some of the yet to be released 2.0.0.45 packages to fix issues I dropped LinuxMCE and went back to Pluto because I have a dedicated hybrid handling Asterisk/MythTV/security/etc. and Pluto is much easier to get going from bare metal. Use the installation CDs and you have Pluto running system in a couple of hours (loading the DB takes some time). Pluto is based on Debian 3.0 so I do need to compile Myth myself right now to get a firewire input (needs newer 1394 packages) however I had to do the same on LinuxMCE so it was no big loss.

I like the effort with LinuxMCE however for those that are running a dedicated box it might be easier to just use Pluto at this point and avoid all of the steps involved in getting Kubuntu and LinuxMCE up and running.

[darrenmason]

What do other Pluto Users think?

I am also using Pluto and have been for a while now. I have downloaded everything to do a linuxMCE install and will probably setup a standalone subnet to try it on but I am still a bit hestitant.

I have a few opinions which I would like to hear feedback on;

* I have always considered Pluto an OS distribution in its own right. Sure, it is built on top of a faily standard Debian build but it really is designed and built to be in total control of the machine. I think this works well for the core. I do think it is desirable and certainly possible within the Pluto design to have pieces of Pluto software running all around the network on various devices. This is already done to some success with Orbiter software but could/should extend to any device software. linuxMCE seems to be aiming at having all the devices running on standard OS desktop platform. I think there is a mixture of the two required.

* I think linuxMCE is named inaccurately and is confusing a lot of newcomers. A media centre is highly desirable and is certainly attracting people to the project but the Pluto software, in my opinion, is primarily about integration between devices. Where devices are quite loosely defined as anything electronic. This includes software packages like mythtv, xine, asterisk etc. I think there is limited value in all the overhead of pluto for a standalone machine that is only for media viewing.

* Pluto has a great design (although I would like to see a bit more documentation in this space) but, in my opinion, has a poor implementation. Now I don't want to offend the Pluto developers that are possibly/probably reading this, but after looking at the code I would think that they would agree that the implementation has a high amount of coupling and dependency  between objects and has dirtied the code with specific workarounds for certain situations and hardware. I think that this has now caused the project to have an increasing number of 'hard to fix' software bugs causing an unpredictable project schedule and release plan. I believe they have encouraged the linuxMCE fork as hopefully a way to get some of this fixed by the wider community whilst still retaining the control of what they actually use and release.

But instead of complaining about everything I am willing to help out. I am just trying to decide which of the two projects to devote the time to.
To the other past Pluto users that have tried linuxMCE -
once you were up and running again was there much difference?
is it still conceivable to have a big dedicated core machine that sits under the house with all the disks?
has anyone built and run from the lastest SVN code and does this work OK?
Any other experiences worth sharing?

Regards
Darren

[1audio]

I have been running a pretty full Pluto implementation for a few months. First it all works. However it is clear that its not ready for a non-tolerant customer base. I have occasional crashes and lockups. BUT they are all Video related. The nVidia drivers are just barely acceptable and not up to commercial standards. MythTV isn't the most reliable and stable system either and its integration into Pluto leaves a lot to be desired.
Unfortunately the resources necessary to get the media stuff up have really limited the ability to refine the other services, like VOIP, Security camera stuff, Cell Phone integration. But without media its far less of a system.
The Other Linux systems (and Windows as well) aren't much better. DVD playback on Windows isn't really as good as on a $100 Oppo DVD player and much harder to actually do. Pluto and LMCE are more direct and far less computer centric that Windoze but still have the media playback problems.

The shift to Ubuntu was focused on getting a more actively maintained kernel and hopeful dumping the media-hardware problems down to the base system. Unfortunately, while better and easier to keep the core current the media frustration is still there. And making what amounts to an API to programs that weren't designed that way is a lot of work to do, and even more work to maintain. (One reason why Slimserver in Pluto isn't the current version.)

Eventually I suspect LMCE will act very like Pluto with a desktop in it. For now Pluto seems more stable but the release version of LMCE 1.1 may change the rules. And The fixes to the smaller things (tthere are a lot) may appear in LMCE first if they ever make it to Pluto.

And Linux hardware support is a second big challenge. Every time new hardware is introduced or a new kernal is released all of the old stuff is at risk and Linus has actively pushed against locking down Linux in the way Windows is to create a stable interface point for hardware. Developing for X86 brings a lot of challenges since this makes it a moving target.

Pluto's target is to become a core part of a commercial product like a Motorola set top box or a TV. Both cases that don't have the media playback problems. We must help get the Ubuntu program moving and help sort out the software into a better system.