Findings while working on alternative install DVD...

[l3mce]

This is less than a perfect process... but the results are really neat. I need to test more to find more that is broken, but, rather unusually, I have solutions for the things I have found thus far which are not happy... if not a graceful implementation.

Let me tell you the results before I bore you with the details. Using the following methodology I have created an alternative "livecd" LMCE installer. The install option installs the system all the way to the AVWizard without requiring internet access, you never see KDE... the first screen you see after the 15 min install is AVWizard. As an unexpected surprise, which may be the only realistic benefit of the experiment, the "live" boot also boots to AVWizard, and allows you to configure and run a system from a disk or thumbdrive, creating a portable version of the system without touching the native drive. This installer is as hardware independent as I have access to, with better results on non-supported hardware than I have been able to achieve through regular installs, and supported hardware installs with some minor issues I will address at the end. I like my good news first... esp when the bad news isn't that bad.

Current method: 810
Follow the standard install until changing sources, making this addition.

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deb http://www.geekconnection.org/remastersys/repository ubuntu/We will remove it before install is made. As root:

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apt-get update
apt-get install remastersys
Install LMCE. When you get to AVWizard, tty2 and root up:

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cp -r  /home/USER_NAME/*? /etc/skel(This makes these folders appear when a new user is created from future installs, -remastersys. Obviously substitute whatever your current user name is for USER_NAME)
Edit sources.list and get rid of that repo.

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dist-upgrade
remastersys dist cdfs
remastersys dist LMCE.isoburn the iso

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apt-get install 'dvd+rw-tools'
growisofs -Z /dev/dvd=/home/remastersys/remastersys/LMCE.isoMost of the work is done. I now create some scripts to deal with the problems and add them to the .iso.

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growisofs -M /dev/dvd /tmp/fixbroken.shI will put it up here, but they need a bit of tweaking. I just figured all this out early this morn, and have been working all day, so bare with me. I am working on a graphical kicker for install, but for now you get 4 text options in isolinux. Boot live, boot forcing vesadrivers, install... and boot to hd.

Now the bad news. Building this way, on a normal system, breaks KDE. However there is documentation on how to build this in an Ubuntu server environment which preserves all the pesky hidden KDE stuff. The gparted installer also pukes about 12 errors about not being able to mount nd1, nd3... etc. Choose cancel on each warning. Also warns you that language packs are not available for install. Default values are all over the map, but easily changed when going through install process.

Installing or booting live, there are no nics in /etc/network/interfaces. Stealing from the new-installer scripts, I grep for existence of eth0 /etc/network/interfaces, and if not use chunks from the single/dual nic auto configuration script in one of the installers. For now if you are anxious, just edit (for dual nic)  to read:

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auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
auto eth1
iface eth1 inet static
address 192.168.80.1
netmask 225.225.225.0
Or single nic

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auto lo
iface lo inet loopback
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
auto eth0:1
iface eth0:1 inet static
address 192.168.80.1
netmask 225.225.225.0Then

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/etc/init.d/networking restart
As I said, I will post a cleanup script once I have time to create/test them again to automate them.

There are also permission errors in some /var dir (watch boot)... I can't remember off the top of my head. This will also be addressed this weekend with a cleanup script, but for now change them.

Firefox has remembery issues, but I believe that may have been solved dumping into /etc/skel
I know there is more... but this is a fun start. I can't push a 4gb file from my homemade giant aluminum foil antenna I get internet on... so I encourage others to play with this along with me. I will add more after more napping, but the installed system works with everything I have, behaving nicely.

[DragonK]

HI,

This sounds interesting, I wanna reload my core, but I dont like the idea of reinstalling, and have to download alot more from the internet, even if its the latest snapshot. Now the route your going, if I understand correctly, you dont need an active internet connection?

Karel

[rperre]

Nice work L3MCE

[l3mce]

HI,

This sounds interesting, I wanna reload my core, but I dont like the idea of reinstalling, and have to download alot more from the internet, even if its the latest snapshot. Now the route your going, if I understand correctly, you dont need an active internet connection?

Karel

Until the setup wizard, when specifying things like mythtv etc... there is no downloading. With the disk you can do a ground up install to AVWizard in under 30 min (depending on the size of the drive being formatted).

To make this disk, you will have to go through the drudgery of a normal install once. Once I am finished I will find someplace to stick an iso and you can download it like a snap (assuming the powers that be have no issue with the thing).
One of the benefits of doing it yourself, for your own purposes, is that you can tweak it as you like (including packages that LMCE cannot distribute), or special configs you have made to .xorg or whatever. So when you install, everything just works... you know... except the things which are currently broken . I do not use asterisk or security atm... so I cannot test that, but everything else works. Detection and DCERouting is fine. Will have a lot more after the weekend.

[phenigma]

Be careful of licencing issues.  Many packages that are used by LMCE cannot legally be distributed through any medium but an internet connection.  One of these is the MS Core Fonts that cannot be installed or packaged onto any other medium.  These fonts are used by Orbiter, which essentially means any distribution using orbiter must have an internet connection to install fonts before orbiter is launched.  This would include LMCE, PadOrbiter, etc...  Any medibuntu packages also cannot be distributed through the CD or DVD as they often contain code/patented routines that cannot be legally used in many countries without paying for them.  These are the primary reasons that the DVD install still needs an internet connection.

J.

[l3mce]

Be careful of licencing issues.  Many packages that are used by LMCE cannot legally be distributed through any medium but an internet connection.  One of these is the MS Core Fonts that cannot be installed or packaged onto any other medium.  These fonts are used by Orbiter, which essentially means any distribution using orbiter must have an internet connection to install fonts before orbiter is launched.  This would include LMCE, PadOrbiter, etc...  Any medibuntu packages also cannot be distributed through the CD or DVD as they often contain code/patented routines that cannot be legally used in many countries without paying for them.  These are the primary reasons that the DVD install still needs an internet connection.

J.

I had considered this, which was why I encourage people to make their own atm for their own personal use. What I was considering for what I want to upload, is an agreement clicked on first accepting the licenses for the portions of the install which are not free. I do not know if that makes it legal, but seems good to me atm. Worst case scenario I will have to create my own specialized install excluding those packages, and include a secondary install script. This would still greatly reduce the time/install issues commonly addressed in these forums. I guess I could just remove non-free repos during install... but if any are housed at linuxmce.org I will need to change something.

Perhaps these packages could be installed using the old package installer in setup wizards "software" section.

[phenigma]

The live DVD does need attention and I think it is great that you're looking into it!

Some of the packages you can probably deal with as you are suggesting, pre-present the agreement to the user to agree too.  Some of the licences (the msttcorefonts package for example) prohibit distribution except in their original format.

Two possibilities:
1)  Don't pre-install the packages on the DVD.  Each time the DVD boots into the live environment any required packages would need to be installed.  This is what the current installer does, and why the installation is not completed in the pre-installed DVD live environment.  This would require an internet connection.

2) Create a script that would pre-fectch any required packages with licencing issues (seperate from the livedvd/installer) and say... copy the files to a USB stick.  Then you could allow the user to provide the packages (or required files from the packages) on this USB stick during the live boot/install process.  This way the package licences are not violated by distributing them and simple script can be used by the user to fetch all the files.  This is not ideal, but the only way I have thought of meeting the licence requirements and not requiring an internet connection for install.

Just my thoughts, I'd looked at this a little once before.  Keep up the great work!

J.

[l3mce]

Not for nothing, I have grabbed the liberation fonts included in the red hat distro and simply renamed them and the orbiters all work. playing with different ones now. I know it is a hack, but I can package those.

http://i55.tinypic.com/sxjb79.png

[l3mce]

Ok... so I have successfully  removed the msttcorefonts package, with a bit of force, and replaced the fonts with liberation. There are dependency issues, so that will have to be addressed at a level above me. (Thanks to Merk for finding the right fonts and working to make it work the "right" way). So I know they work.

I also did a fresh install, doing the same thing at avwizard, but something during the install noticed the missing dependency and re-installed it.

Phenigma, your second solution is intriguing. I need to get an actual list of non-free packages together... and I still like the idea of grabbing non crucial build packages in the setup wizard under software. As I said, to try and knock these down one by one, I am going to need a list.

Also... I am going to try rsyncing the hidden .kde directory in USER_NAME to skel, and script a rewrite of the subdirectories which bear it. That will probably fix KDE without having to build a different server.

[phenigma]

The fonts package is a dependency for Orbiter at least and CheckDependencies will install it if it hasn't been already.  This would have to be worked in as an upstream change in the system itself, as would any package alterations, otherwise the system will just re-install them automatically.

J.

[l3mce]

The fonts package is a dependency for Orbiter at least and CheckDependencies will install it if it hasn't been already.  This would have to be worked in as an upstream change in the system itself, as would any package alterations, otherwise the system will just re-install them automatically.

J.

Thanks for the elucidation. I guess from here I have to have a builder up... and learn how that all works. Lol.

pluto-avwizard, pluto-dcerouter, pluto-nvidia-video-drivers, pluto-orbiter, and pluto-orbitergen all depend... and from there pretty much all of pluto seems to depend on them.

[phenigma]

:-)

J.

[l3mce]

I went to bed last night thinking very hard about removing these dependencies, rather upset that the system overrode my changes, forcing that package install.

I woke up all bleary eyed with a single thought... hey wait a minute... if during install it fixes dependencies... I just have to force out all non-free packages... and the sys will grab them back as dependencies after av wiz.


Now I just need that list to test the theory...


It's so simple... it can't be that simple...

[l3mce]

It's that simple.

I am scripting the entire process now. The elements do the following.

• Finds non-free files, and their dependencies, and their .debs. Forces out the offending software, ignoring the depends, creating a record of what has to be reinstalled on first boot.
• Moves hidden home and nonspecific user folders around for preservation.
• Creates the remaster file system
• Generates and burns the iso

Now the first boot preseed script.

• Performs most of the functions found in post-install.sh to re-initialize network.
• Re-installs non free packages that were removed from specific build. Will probably throw in a user reply w/ packages to ensure legality.
• More post-install.sh functions to ensure proper nvidia driver usage.
• Moves the hidden files back.
• Performs cleanup so that the process leaves no trace of itself.

Outstanding issues:

• KDESudo crashes the first time you load desktop. It corrects itself and does not interfere with operation, and does not reappear after reboot.
• Because I have to install the video drivers after the fact, I am pretty sure an additional reboot is going to have to occur. This means unless I can figure out a way to legally package the nvidia etc., or get around a reboot after nvidia recompiles the kernel, there will be no distributable live boot into a fully functional system, however w/user prompt can allow non-distributable creation for portable demo.
• Installer errors finding nbdX... forcing you to click cancel several times before you get to the partitioner. Clicking ignore makes a list too big for you to see your HD. **
• Videos are too big to fit in ISO standard as they cannot be further compressed by squeezefs. I have submitted much smaller ones, but I used a hack to trick them into being used, and I expect they will not be live until the setup wizard is edited to use the correct filetype... so for now I have to put them someplace the script can insert them.
• msttcorefonts will ideally be changed over to ttf-liberation in the back end to avoid removal and install of that package while the AVWizard is trying to use  them.

That is all I can find wrong now. Scripting is going to take me a while to get perfect... and the first function in post-install-common.sh script should be changed for copy of hidden folders to read:

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cp -r /etc/skel/* .[!.]** `grep 1000 /etc/passwd|head -1|cut -d: -f6`While this is helpful to me, is not necessary for the process to work. I am doing it elsewhere in the DVD preseed.

http://svn.linuxmce.org/trac.cgi/ticket/1013

** I may be able to avoid these nbd errors by editing /etc/lvm/lvm.conf. Will try later.

I will load all of the working parts of the scripts this evening. Getting everything formatted right for the forced package removal is going to take me some time (the install part works, and does not require the package dependencies to trigger, though some will by default). Everything else should work well as is. So within a few days/week I should have a full script avail which creates the livedvd automatically, which will then install LMCE correctly. This shaves about 4.5 hours off of the 6hr install process over MY crappy internet, and is completely automated... no sources editing, no nothing. Click "install". With some graphics help from RayBe, it should be a lot prettier watching the splash screens which will show LinuxMCE, instead of kubuntu, with verbose output over that background if alt+f1 is pushed.

[Marie.O]

Don't forget the rule, to attach your script to a trac ticket, so you can always go back, in case something fails.

We have had unfortunate incidents in the past, where code got lost, because it was not attached to ticket, and the system containing the code died.