Messages

1

Developers / Re: Qt Now LGPL

« on: January 15, 2009, 10:34:37 pm »

Orbiter does not use Qt.

Why don't you actually dig into src/Orbiter ... spend some time looking at the code... and then come back to the discussion?

Your comments basically state that you are completely clueless as to what's actually going on underneath.

-Thom

p.s. You may want to check out everything in the Programmers Guide category on the wiki. There are various articles relating to the design of the rendering classes in orbiter which should shed some light on its design.
\

Well, telling me that the Orbiter would need recoding when I asked about Qt was a clue that sent me off in the wrong direction. I'll look to the code rather than the forums for more info.

2

Developers / Re: Qt Now LGPL

« on: January 15, 2009, 04:33:45 pm »

Not really, you would have to completely rewrite the Orbiter which is much more than just a UI, and a huge piece of code.

LinuxMCE proper does not use ANY of KDE or Qt whatsoever.

The only exception is the Launch Manager.

I'm confused now: does the Orbiter use Qt? If not, what toolkit is the onscreen GUI built on? I thought all the old discussions of "UI3" were prioritizing Qt, because of some new Qt innovations (in KDE4). Maybe that was just because Aaron of Pluto was interested in cutting some deal with TrollTech (that I think never happened), and UI3 is still just an occasional discussion.

Not really, you would have to completely rewrite the Orbiter which is much more than just a UI, and a huge piece of code. Plus there are other pieces of LMCE unrelated to the UI that are covered by PPL. Why are you worried about PPL? It should only effect you if you intend to sell complete media/HA solutions bundled with hardware. Other than that, it has no effect on your usage of the system.

I'm generally interested in seeing any project come under a single license. I'd also like to see companies sponsor LinuxMCE which sell HW bundled with it, because they have the money and project management to move it along, market it to increase its popularity (which makes the community larger, which means more help and contributions).

I also think that the Orbiter code, which I've looked at (its messaging and network API, not its GUI), would be easier to upgrade if its UI were a discrete presentation layer, and not as integrated with the PPL code. The Pluto code remaining in LinuxMCE that I saw (in 0710) was written very badly, hard to trace or maintain.

3

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: January 15, 2009, 04:26:46 pm »

Instead of copy/pasting 2 wiki pages together, it would be way more helpful if you actually tried the alpha1 release and shared your own experience.  There is no added value in lumping these together whatsoever.

Did you delete the combined alpha wiki article that I created?

Yes, that is what we do with redundant pages.  And merely pasting two pages together without adding anything is not what I 'd call something you "created".

The page I created was not redundant to the other separate pages. As I explained in this thread, I factored out the problems from the different alpha versions that were before combined into one ambiguous shared section into a separate section for each version. That separation made it possible for developers, testers and trackers to tell whether an issue was resolved or not in a given version, and made it easier to report confirmations or changes. Which encourages other people to help the development, testing and reporting. Which at least one major developer was grateful for:

fantastic... thank you so much, for doing that.

-Thom

I see you often complain that people make requests according to their own interests for developers to work on for them, instead of helping. Yet when I did a little work to assist the alpha development, to help people contribute or to use the contributions, you unilaterally destroyed my contribution. Even though it at worst did no harm. That's a bad way to work together to move this project forward.

That page was in fact completely redundant since it contained no extra information whatsoever other then was already on the seperate pages that you pasted together.  If this is all the "assistance" you have to offer, then please don't bother.  Neither did I "destroy" anything as you so dramaticly put it since all the information that was on it is still in the wiki on the original pages that you copied it from (proving once more that it was indeed totally redundant). 

Disambiguation is nonredundant. The structure splitting known issues per version was structural info facilitating testing/revision that is now lost. Not only did you unilaterally decide no one should have that utility, but you did so even after seeing fellow a developer publicly thank me for doing it.

Your defensiveness that denies these facts is part of your attitude that is counterproductive to a team working together on this project. And I am far from the first to say so in these forums, which decreases the chances that anyone will join the team, even to contribute just a little - which collectively goes a long way.

Dude, get a life of your own.

This message is my last in what you have now converted to a pure flamewar, missing any points relevant to this project. I will not make the same mistake.

Your insult shows exactly what the problem is here: you think that LinuxMCE is your life, and no one else who doesn't agree with you is welcome in it. You flame people all the time, especially new appearances who you drive from the project forever, when they make a request that you say doesn't meet your priorities. Which is bad enough, driving away people who, if encouraged, could produce more code contributors and others necessary to making a project move quicker than LinuxMCE has moved in its several years. t's currently not even finally released 0710, which is over a year behind schedule, so much that 0810 is several months old, still (insistently) early alpha, and showing few if any signs that it will be released before Ubuntu 0904 is released - or even when 0710 will ever be released. If there were two or three more people making contributions, that would effectively double the team. But who wants to work with you? Only the other diehards, whose work deserves praise not just for its work product, but for their tolerating your endless, often arbitrary abuse of people coming to the project, which deprives them of help, deprives us all of completing some versions sometime.

My life includes working on LinuxMCE when I can, just like anyone else. LinuxMCE is not exclusively your life, for you to kick people out of when they contribute something that you don't value (but others with standing do value). I say this not because I want to continue your flamewar, or because I expect that you'll agree, or even listen. But maybe sometime down the road you might recognize why something is going wrong for you, because this message explains it, and you might be less inclined to slam down again. For your sake, and for the sake of any project you're working on, I hope so.

You may now dismiss me with some conceited insult. I will not respond.

4

Developers / Qt Now LGPL

« on: January 15, 2009, 12:24:32 am »

Nokia announced that Qt is now LGPL. Does that change remove any dependencies of LinuxMCE on the PPL or any other non-GPL license? Even if there remain some dependencies on non-GPL licenses, does Qt under LGPL remove any of them?

5

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: January 15, 2009, 12:18:55 am »

Instead of copy/pasting 2 wiki pages together, it would be way more helpful if you actually tried the alpha1 release and shared your own experience.  There is no added value in lumping these together whatsoever.

Did you delete the combined alpha wiki article that I created?

Yes, that is what we do with redundant pages.  And merely pasting two pages together without adding anything is not what I 'd call something you "created".

The page I created was not redundant to the other separate pages. As I explained in this thread, I factored out the problems from the different alpha versions that were before combined into one ambiguous shared section into a separate section for each version. That separation made it possible for developers, testers and trackers to tell whether an issue was resolved or not in a given version, and made it easier to report confirmations or changes. Which encourages other people to help the development, testing and reporting. Which at least one major developer was grateful for:

fantastic... thank you so much, for doing that.

-Thom

I see you often complain that people make requests according to their own interests for developers to work on for them, instead of helping. Yet when I did a little work to assist the alpha development, to help people contribute or to use the contributions, you unilaterally destroyed my contribution. Even though it at worst did no harm. That's a bad way to work together to move this project forward.

That page was in fact completely redundant since it contained no extra information whatsoever other then was already on the seperate pages that you pasted together.  If this is all the "assistance" you have to offer, then please don't bother.  Neither did I "destroy" anything as you so dramaticly put it since all the information that was on it is still in the wiki on the original pages that you copied it from (proving once more that it was indeed totally redundant). 

Disambiguation is nonredundant. The structure splitting known issues per version was structural info facilitating testing/revision that is now lost. Not only did you unilaterally decide no one should have that utility, but you did so even after seeing fellow a developer publicly thank me for doing it.

Your defensiveness that denies these facts is part of your attitude that is counterproductive to a team working together on this project. And I am far from the first to say so in these forums, which decreases the chances that anyone will join the team, even to contribute just a little - which collectively goes a long way.

6

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: January 08, 2009, 08:11:20 pm »

Instead of copy/pasting 2 wiki pages together, it would be way more helpful if you actually tried the alpha1 release and shared your own experience.  There is no added value in lumping these together whatsoever.

Did you delete the combined alpha wiki article that I created?

Yes, that is what we do with redundant pages.  And merely pasting two pages together without adding anything is not what I 'd call something you "created".

The page I created was not redundant to the other separate pages. As I explained in this thread, I factored out the problems from the different alpha versions that were before combined into one ambiguous shared section into a separate section for each version. That separation made it possible for developers, testers and trackers to tell whether an issue was resolved or not in a given version, and made it easier to report confirmations or changes. Which encourages other people to help the development, testing and reporting. Which at least one major developer was grateful for:

fantastic... thank you so much, for doing that.

-Thom

I see you often complain that people make requests according to their own interests for developers to work on for them, instead of helping. Yet when I did a little work to assist the alpha development, to help people contribute or to use the contributions, you unilaterally destroyed my contribution. Even though it at worst did no harm. That's a bad way to work together to move this project forward.

7

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: December 23, 2008, 05:49:37 am »

Instead of copy/pasting 2 wiki pages together, it would be way more helpful if you actually tried the alpha1 release and shared your own experience.  There is no added value in lumping these together whatsoever.

Did you delete the combined alpha wiki article that I created?

8

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: December 10, 2008, 10:37:14 pm »

fantastic... thank you so much, for doing that.

You're very welcome, especially considering that it's just documenting so much of the actual development work that you (and Zaerc, and others) are doing.

9

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: December 10, 2008, 10:31:11 pm »

Instead of copy/pasting 2 wiki pages together, it would be way more helpful if you actually tried the alpha1 release and shared your own experience.  There is no added value in lumping these together whatsoever.

The added value is mainly in distinguishing between issues in either alpha0 or alpha1 (and later versions as they're released). The alpha1 seems like it might be close enough to working with the HW and features I need to use that I might try installing it now. But until I sorted them out, it was hard to tell. Other people will probably also see that alpha1 is closer to working, and will try installing it. And the clearer format makes it easier for us all to register the results of our tests. That will continue to be true about the later versions, too.

10

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: December 10, 2008, 05:26:44 pm »

There are now two alpha versions of LMCE 0810, alpha0 and alpha1. There are two wiki pages, one for each alpha version: alpha0 and alpha1. But they're hard to use or follow, because the old alpha0 page is more detailed, and the alpha1 page even just points to the alpha0 page for a shared list of known problems. There is no indication whether those problems have been fixed in alpha1, or whether they exist in alpha1 but not alpha0, according to the current pages structure.

I combined the two pages into a single page that documents the LMCE alpha versions, alpha, keeping all the info from the old pages. Once testing moves to beta, we can have a separate page for that beta series of versions, if it makes sense then. I combined the alpha0 and alpha1 pages, including each alphaN version in its own standalone section. I copied the known problems forward from the alpha0 page into the alpha1 section, but revised the "Confirmed by" note for each issue to indicate the version that issue was last confirmed in (alpha0). Since all known issues were collected in the alpha0 page, the versions noted a report or confirmation in the alpha1 section are all "a0", since there's no way to tell whether they were noted in alpha1. Going forward we can note the issues in the correct version's section, so we know whether an issue survives. Confirming the fix in the "Confirmed Working" section will make the status more clear.

Please comments here in this thread if you're interested in this wiki revision. Please let me know if there's a better way to do it. Once discussion has settled down, I'll link the old pages to the new one, and probably remove the old ones in favor of the new one.

Thanks to everyone who's working through these development issues and producing the info that's making it to the wiki for everyone else to use.

11

Developers / Re: Building for 0810

« on: November 30, 2008, 05:18:01 pm »

Hi,

I installed the 0810 pre alpha, are we discussing 0810 related issues here or in the irc channel?

Dave

Somewhere with a permanent public record, like this thread gives, would be useful for everyone, even if we're not there for the "realtime" discussion. A forum discussion linked from the wiki would be good. I linked to this thread from the "LinuxMCE-0810 alpha0" wiki entry.

12

Users / Re: MCE 0810 / Blu Ray

« on: September 13, 2008, 09:23:13 pm »

The more help we get the sooner the release.
Remember, we do not have any commerical sponsors behind us. Only the community.

If someone could reply to the topic I posted in the Developers Forum a week ago, "Working Build Process?" this community would have at least one more developer who could help.

The build process described in the overlapping (and evidently erroneous) wiki articles "Building From Source" and "Setting Up A Development Environment" fails when trying to build a module of it, and any of the current developers (or anyone else) who can fix those instructions will remove the roadblock for at least me, and probably others who'd like to help get us all to the next release of LinuxMCE.

If you know how to build from the current sources, please reply to that message, or somewhere else I (and others) can see how to do it.

13

Developers / Re: Developer FAQ

« on: September 03, 2008, 05:34:16 pm »

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Building_From_Source

I tried to use those instructions to build a test library, Media_Plugin.so, but it failed, as I detailed in another post, "Working Build Process?". Can you help me find the correct procedure for working on the current source base? Thanks.

14

Developers / Working Build Process?

« on: September 03, 2008, 03:32:55 am »

Hi, I've played around with installs of LinuxMCE since 0704, and I'm trying to get a development environment set up to debug and develop starting with the latest, stablest LinuxMCE source base. I read the Developer FAQ, which wound up basically pointing at the wiki article Building From Source. I tried using those instructions, but it doesn't seem to fully work, as building some modules fails to compile without aborting errors.

I tried adding to the instructions in "Building From Source" a couple extra details from the related wiki article Setting Up A Development Environment that seemed to be necessary. And a couple details in "Building From Source" seemed wrong (like copying existing libs to trunk/src/ , when there is no "trunk" directory in lmce/, just charon-merge (which seemed to make sense from the Developer FAQ discussion, as it evolved).

So what I eventually tried was;

1. Install a 0710-rc2 from the DVD-DL as Hybrid on a P4/2.5GHz with 512MB/250GB. Seems to work well, though VoIP doesn't work with "Dial Direct" on the embedded app to my existing (tested OK) BroadVoice account. And of course there are bugs, but the system seemed to install completely. I left it running, turned off the firewall, used ssh to connect as user linuxmce .

2.

Code: [Select]

cd /usr/src
sudo mkdir lmce
sudo chown linuxmce lmce
cd lmce
3.

Code: [Select]

sudo apt-get install subversion ccache
4.

Code: [Select]

svn co http://svn.linuxmce.org/pluto/branches/charon-merge
5. The wiki said:

Code: [Select]

cp /usr/pluto/lib/* trunk/src/lib    but there was no trunk/ in /usr/src/lmce/ . There was of course the /usr/src/charon-merge/ that I'd just checked out into that directory, so instead I did:

Code: [Select]

cp /usr/pluto/lib/* charon-merge/src/lib
6. The wiki said:

Code: [Select]

cd trunk
./configure    but of course instead I did:

Code: [Select]

cd charon-merge
./configure
7. The wiki said:

For the svn.linuxmce.com source there is no configure script yet. Run these to prepare bootstrapping (ONLY FOR THE SVN.LINUXMCE.COM source, NOT the charonmedia):

    But of course I'd just run ./configure , so there is of course a configure script. I tried this whole process (deleting the /usr/src/* tree before repeating) both with and without this step:

Code: [Select]

find . -iname Makefile -exec sed -e 's/<-mkr_t_compile_defines->/-DKDE_LMCE -DDEBUG -DTHREAD_LOG -DLOG_ALL_QUERIES -I\/opt\/libxine1-pluto\/include -I\/opt\/libsdl1.2-1.2.7+1.2.8cvs20041007\/include -I\/opt\/libsdl1.2-1.2.7+1.2.8cvs20041007\/include\/SD/' -i '{}' \;
find . -iname Makefile -exec sed -e 's/<-mkr_t_compile_libs->/-L\/opt\/libxine1-pluto\/lib -L\/opt\/libsdl1.2-1.2.7+1.2.8cvs20041007\/lib/' -i '{}' \;
8. I then ran make from the /usr/src/lmce/ CWD.

OK, after a while the build completed, with a lot of warnings but no errors. So it looked good.

But I tried to rebuild a single module to test the development environment, and that failed. It computed a bunch of dependencies for a lot of .cpp files in that dir, executed a g++ line with some warnings, but then on the next g++ invocation it reported an error along with a lot of warnings, then failed and quit, without generating any object files except Main.o (and no .so):

Code: [Select]

cd /usr/src/lmce/src/Media_Plugin/
touch Media_Plugin.cpp
make so

linuxmce@dcerouter:/usr/src/lmce/charon-merge/src/Media_Plugin$ make so
Computing dependencies for MediaHandlerBase.cpp done
Computing dependencies for Generic_NonPluto_Media.cpp done
Computing dependencies for BoundRemote.cpp done
Computing dependencies for MediaStream.cpp done
Computing dependencies for MediaAttributes_LowLevel.cpp done
Computing dependencies for MediaAttributes.cpp done
Computing dependencies for MediaHandlerInfo.cpp done
Computing dependencies for MediaListGrid.cpp done
Computing dependencies for Media_Plugin_Grids.cpp done
Computing dependencies for ../Gen_Devices/Media_PluginBase.cpp done
Computing dependencies for Media_Plugin.cpp done
Computing dependencies for Main.cpp done
g++ -c -I.. -I../DCE -DKDE_LMCE -DDEBUG -DTHREAD_LOG -DLOG_ALL_QUERIES -I/opt/libxine1-pluto/include -I/opt/linphone-1.3.5/include -I/usr/include/mysql  -Wall -fPIC -ggdb3 -fmessage-length=0 Main.cpp -o Main.o
../DCE/DeviceData_Base.h: In member function ‘bool DCE::DeviceData_Base::WithinCategory(long int, DCE::DeviceCategory*)’:
../DCE/DeviceData_Base.h:397: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
MediaListGrid.h: At global scope:
MediaListGrid.h:143: warning: ‘bool FileBrowserInfoComparerLastViewed(FileBrowserInfo*, FileBrowserInfo*)’ defined but not used
MediaListGrid.h:148: warning: ‘bool FileBrowserInfoComparerTrack(FileBrowserInfo*, FileBrowserInfo*)’ defined but not used
g++ -c -I.. -I../DCE -DKDE_LMCE -DDEBUG -DTHREAD_LOG -DLOG_ALL_QUERIES -I/opt/libxine1-pluto/include -I/opt/linphone-1.3.5/include -I/usr/include/mysql  -Wall -fPIC -ggdb3 -fmessage-length=0 Media_Plugin.cpp -o Media_Plugin.o
../DCE/DeviceData_Base.h: In member function ‘bool DCE::DeviceData_Base::WithinCategory(long int, DCE::DeviceCategory*)’:
../DCE/DeviceData_Base.h:397: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions
Media_Plugin.cpp: In member function ‘virtual bool DCE::Media_Plugin::Register()’:
Media_Plugin.cpp:713: error: ‘DATAGRID_Tracks_on_Disc_CONST’ was not declared in this scope
Media_Plugin.cpp: In member function ‘bool DCE::Media_Plugin::MediaInserted(DCE::Socket*, DCE::Message*, DCE::DeviceData_Base*, DCE::DeviceData_Base*)’:
Media_Plugin.cpp:841: warning: comparison between signed and unsigned integer expressions

(about a dozen more different warnings, ending with:)

MediaListGrid.h:148: warning: ‘bool FileBrowserInfoComparerTrack(FileBrowserInfo*, FileBrowserInfo*)’ defined but not used
make: *** [Media_Plugin.o] Error 1

I tried checking out the charon-merge tree yesterday, 20080901, and again today, 20080902, and the build failed the same way with both snapshots. I tried skipping step #7, the "extra" configuration commands via "find/exec", and I tried skipping running /usr/src/lmce/charon-merge/configure but running the "find/exec" commands instead, and I tried skipping both ./configure and the find/exec commands. Instead of running "make so", I tried "make bin", "make all" and just "make" (running "make clean" between each attempted make). Each variation on each of the two days' snapshots failed in the same way trying to build that directory.

It looks like the build procedure has evolved during the posting of the Developer FAQ and the wiki articles. Is there a variation on those instructions that works, or is there a totally different procedure now? Thanks for the help getting started.