HCL

[tschak909]

My anger is based consistently on people refusing to help out a _VOLUNTEER STAFFED PROJECT_

I am sorry for the rude outburst, it was purely from frustration... _with that said:_

We do not make money from any of this.

Please read that again, and let it sink in, before reading the rest.

Even though, we do not make ANY money from ANY of this, we are here, every single day, doing the following:

* Working on code
* Answering questions (some of them quite repeatedly, despite the fact that we put them on the FAQ!)
* Working on the Wiki, our vast information source. This one takes up vast amounts of time and energy

Notice I did not say the word _CUSTOMER_ in there, anywhere.

This means:

* You are _NOT ENTITLED_ to any form of support. We do what we can.
* You are _NOT ENTITLED_ to US making sure your hardware works or not. That's your job. If it works, put it up on the wiki. We did it for our hardware.
* You are _NOT ENTITLED_ to US making sure your particular configuration of said hardware works or not. Again, THAT'S YOUR JOB. We document how it's supposed to be configured given the hardware constraints we have. If you have another configuration that works, PUT IT ON THE WIKI.

Notice the lack of entitlement? If you're going to huff off in a storm, please read the next part:

The support given to each of us, comes from each of us. If we can help you, we can. If YOU can help someone, YOU DO IT. That is how community based projects work.


I hope I've made my point.
-Thom

[pcbastard]

Thom,

You are a brilliant programer/linux guru and a very interesting person, but you need to grow up.  There will always be noobs like me.  We are like children, not sure of ourselves, and asking questions in order to learn and gain some level of confidence in this great project so that we can post to the wiki in a competent and complete way.  I would LOVE to contribute some meanful information that others can use, but I am just at the begining.  How can anyone learn if they are afraid of asking "dumb" questions for fear of being bitch-slapped by you and others?

I realize you are fed up with repeated questions about working hardware from everyone, but come on, nobody is directing their questions to you.  Just ignore them.  Keep doing the great work that you are doing and try to keep this place a welcoming one.

Just my opinion.

Leo

[Zaerc]

Thom,

You are a brilliant programer/linux guru and a very interesting person, but you need to grow up.  There will always be noobs like me.  We are like children, not sure of ourselves, and asking questions in order to learn and gain some level of confidence in this great project so that we can post to the wiki in a competent and complete way.  I would LOVE to contribute some meanful information that others can use, but I am just at the begining.  How can anyone learn if they are afraid of asking "dumb" questions for fear of being bitch-slapped by you and others?

I realize you are fed up with repeated questions about working hardware from everyone, but come on, nobody is directing their questions to you.  Just ignore them.  Keep doing the great work that you are doing and try to keep this place a welcoming one.

Just my opinion.

Leo

Just keep kicking a dead horse will you?

[pcbastard]

Yup.

Now my legs are tired.  I'll find myself a new horse.

[cmoates]

I'm no expert on LMCE (in fact, I'm a KnoppMyth user) however there are certain things I've seen in communities from time to time.

Thom is frustrated with the lack of apparent willingness for users to contribute to the project. A place I can completely identify with. While you might be right that lashing out doesn't help, neither does complaining.

You can be a complete newbie and still post to the wiki that "LMCE version X.Y failed to recognize my [Vendor Name] [Model Name] sound card." It may not seem like it's much help, but it's a start, and remember, nothing in any wiki is ever set in stone. If it's inaccurate, change it later.

You can be a complete newbie and still post to the forums, "I tried to do XYZ and I expected ABC to occur, but instead DEF happened, and that's not desirable. What information do you need from me next?" instead of "XYZ doesn't work, I thought this thing just worked out of the box, what's your problem?"

I've been involved in my fair share of OSS projects as both a developer and as a user. There is absolutely no good that will ever come out of telling someone that their project sucks, or that they don't work fast enough, or that they wish ABC hardware was supported. There are constructive and destructive ways to contribute to a project. Thom contributes far more constructive than destructive. If the same can't be said for you, you need to rethink your position.

bblboy54 posted that he's been working on LMCE for a month, and had problems, and that he would "give feedback into the community" but I see 4 posts, three complaining without any useful detail and one asking for help with a problem. If that problem was ever solved, why isn't there a "SOLVED: problem with foo" post in reply to that thread for the next person to deal with a similar issue? Even if bblboy54 is choosing not to use the LMCE product, that doesn't mean he can't contribute what he learned from his time working on it. This is community. And many users don't get that at all.

Thom and the others, keep up the good work. I'm sure you put as much energy into this project as you can spare, and while it's not a project of personal interest to me at this time, I do see it is a very interesting project and one with a lot of potential.

[seth]

 
Heh, Wow, the LUG has chimed in. I know cmoates and bblboy54 personally. We all are members of the same LUG. It is unfortunate that his installation did not go well, I have had my share of pitfalls, and hair pulling, and alcohol drinking. 

And I have been bashed on more than one occasion, but unfortunately my inexperience was the direct cause. Although it is painful to be verbally accosted, it does help re-align ones focus. I started using this project at version 7.04. It was painful, but it taught me a lot. The members of this community, although abrasive are truely the heart and soul of this project. Developers/Hackers like Thom, and Zaerc, are for the most part a big bit of the glue holding it all together. I converted from Knoppmyth. Which as it stands is a very well thought out mythtv distro. It helps to have LUG members as a huge part of its developement, and I truely enjoyed the years I used it. And this I did on recommendation from a fellow LUG member.

I also remember when I initially stated to the LUG that I was going to try LMCE, I was told that it was too complicated, not very well supported, and poorly documented. Most of which is true. Or was. Now with the release of 710rc2, I can honestly say that my last installation of LMCE was very painless. There are a few bugs, that for me at least, were answered in the forums here, some from the wiki, but almost entirely from the mouths of Thom, Zaerc, Posde, Hari, Freymann, and the list goes on and on......

Most of how I got this system functioning in full production  in my home, came from the razor sharp retorts and **sighs!*** in the irc channel. But after the very few issues I encountered, this system, for me personally, works exceptionally well. While it has its bits of conformity, it is after all a "Home Control" platform, as well as a Media Center. It has very specific requirements, and if they are not adhered to, you will fail. While this seems quite "closed box" it is so for a good reason. Unlike a MythTV distro, that you can slap on just about everything, and requires almost no user intervention, LinuxMCE is so much more than that. That being said, if all you want is a Tivo-Like device, that can play music and such, then use one of these. But if you want total home integration, (like the stuff we all used to drool over on the various SciFi shows throughout the decades), then LinuxMCE is where you should look. There is nothing like it. Best I can tell, and I have not tried it, LinuxMCE has even surpassed the capabilities of pluto home, and it can cost over $20,000 to have that implemented. This project is FREE as in BEER. The developers who work on it, do not get paid. However they are working in every free moment they have to improve it, expand it, and perfect it. I have some unusual hardware, so unlike the infamous video, my installation was tasking. I broke stuff, I bought stuff, and now it gets used every day, by my family, and at night by me. Granted the biggest and most used function is MythTV, so I ask myself, "Why not mythbuntu or knoppmyth?" The answer is simple. My children are very young. They have a TV in their playroom, and in their bedrooms, that can do anything they may need. Watch a disney movie, or favorite kids show, listen to their sesame street cd's, and all they have to do is tell there mother, who, as quickliy as a few clicks, can start or stop, and fully control said media, instantly from anywhere. This is the functionality that keeps me here. Nobody else has that. I say this but know full well, that XboxMC which I have added to my mix, has web based control. So at the simplest level, that would do. But it even needs to get its media from somewhere, and the platform I choose is LMCE. And having played with the latest version of MythBuntu, it also has mythweb based controls, in the form of a graphical keyboard, but they are nowhere near as simple to use, or as functional as the LMCE Orbiter technology.

I will end this rant, by saying I am sorry that Bob did not have a good run at this. I tried to help when I could, off of these channels, but perhaps he will try the next release, which I am sure will be even better that the current, which for some works well.

I will continue using LMCE. I will continue to contribute through the wiki, the forums, and template creation. And I will stay here. I am sure that after this post, I will take some sh!t, but you know what, so what!

Reagrds,

Seth

[tschak909]

We have tried _VERY_ hard to make this system an appliance. As such, it does have very specific hardware and network requirements. When you follow them, setup is seamless and relatively boring.

-Thom

[seth]

 
Good to see you back Bob. MythTV is the core LMCE application that gets the hardest use in my house. The wife uses it all day, and occasionally the kids watch live tv, but mostly they watch pre-recorded stuff. And as they are very small, 18months, and almost 3, it helps to be able to start the shows simultaneously in the rooms they run back and forth to, and to date LMCE is the only thing I see that can do this from a 3rd party location, i.e the wifes laptop orbiter. She creates the playlist, clicks the media directors to play it on, and the rest is gravy.

Keep in mind, my wife is not a computer wizard by any means, but she can work this system.

I wish you could have been at the LUG meeting that I demo'd LMCE at, then you could have seen it first hand, but beleive me, if it didn't work, my wife would not allow it (hears a whip cracking, and the verbal bashing from his peers    )

At any rate, glad you are sticking around.

Regards,

Seth

[seth]

 
I agree. Browsing the video section is a bit daunting. I have made use of 1 additional thing regarding that. From your recording schedules page in mythweb, at the very bottom, there is a slot for adding series cover art, that is replicated in the video menu. It helps when paging through multiple windows. However, the wife usually uses the mythtv interface to watch recordings. It is still available, mythtv essentially works like what you are used to. From watching live tv, bring up the ui, and click "recordings" I use UI2 alpha blended, I hit the menu button on the remote, or F7 on the keyboard, it is about the second thing down on the menu bar that pops up. This is also useful if you are not using the script in my mythtv:removing commercials wiki entry : http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Mythtv:Remove_Commercials

You can enable commercial skip in mythtv, and it will do that for you automatically. I personally use the LMCE video menu, as I already have the commercials removed for my recordings.

Regards,

Seth

[tschak909]

The important thing to note here is that the media browser is dependent on things being properly tagged.

Once they are, the media browser's use becomes evident.

At first you see a list of all media, everywhere.

From this point, you can filter it. You can choose to only see TV shows, only see high-def content, etc.. those are the big filters.

But with properly tagged media, you can quickly thin things down to only show comedy movies... then maybe you select a movie... There are attributes on the right which you can select with your remote, or tap on the orbiter. These become additional filters, such as filtering by a specific performer, director, or title. These thin down the display to precisely what you're looking for. Not even counting the search feature.

This is by far one of the most powerful aspects of the system, and it becomes evident just how scalable this system is, when you have been using the system for several years at a time. It then becomes FEASIBLE to store every TV episode you like.. It becomes FEASIBLE to store every single movie over a 10 year period, because when properly tagged, the entire browser approaches a level of efficiency that other systems simply can not match. We've been brain damaged for so long by static associations of files and folders that we forget that these things were originally limitations imposed by programmers because they didn't know any better.

People are afraid of things that aren't immediately evident. I understand this. But I am standing behind this design until something that improves upon it, or takes us off into a new and more amazing direction is found.

-Thom

[seth]

 
This is true, I forgot about changing the media sort to TV Shows. Sheesh! 

So there is the answer for that.

I usually sort for movies    and I do tag all my media correctly.

Regards,

Seth

[seth]

UI2 is by far the superior UI. UI1 is perfect for a "remote control" type interface, but UI2 is more fluid to the user. I use UI2, and on the one MD I have that uses UI1, it is a bit more difficult for me to get around. In fact there have been times when I just couldn't find what I was looking for. But UI2 is definitely a lot easier to use.

My remote is configured with 3 buttons. The Menu button brings up the menu, and then I have 2 more set up for ambience, (volume and lighting) and channel/chapter - ffwd, rewd, and pause. So basically I use 3 buttons and a gyro mouse. Its not quite the fanciness of the fiire remote, but it works for me. My wiki entry for the non-fire remote, generally $40 if you can find one at circuit city. http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Using_the_Gyration_Remote_GYR3101US_(Non-Fiire_Chief)

Regards,

Seth