Creating a FAQ

[teedge77]

We need the users to be less needy and 'do it now' and more community based. Posting a topic without looking into it at all is pretty irresponsible. Im not saying this is you, but there seem to be a lot of recent new users who feel this is their personal support forum. Part of being a community is not being a burden to others in the community unnecessarily.

well said.

best regards,
Hari

a chain is only as strong as its weakest leak.
everyone has to start somewhere.
children are born burdens to their parents. later those who bore them are the burdens to their children.
throw in another cliche here.
people do seem like they have bad attitudes on here sometimes. its the frustration of people answering the same shit over and over. what people dont seem to realize is, these friggin people see this video and think ...oh...a puter...i learned how to download a tv show off the "intranet" now i can do anything. im "leat".
seriously....listen to some of the questions and look at some of the peoples attitudes. a lot of these people are mad that they cant show how cool they are, cause they arent at the level they think they are. some people face a sad wake up call, cause shit aint always easy and you may have to do some work and learn some stuff. the forums are for support. we dont have a forum so people can come in here and just say...hey...i like this...its cool. some people need help to learn. even zaerc had to learn everything. hes got a better background than 99% of these new guys that got a computer for xmas and think itll run LMCE. he was also willing to put in some friggin effort. so it was a lot easier for him to get a grasp of it. another problem is, i think, some of these people dont really want to be a part of the "community" either...they just want their work done for them. anyway...lazy, needy, useless people cover the earth. their bound to show up in the forums too sometimes. oh well.

[Nephus]

there seem to be a lot of recent new users who feel this is their personal support forum.

Funny you should word it that way, as the link from the wiki is clearly labeled "Support Forum".

[hari]

there seem to be a lot of recent new users who feel this is their personal support forum.

Funny you should word it that way, as the link from the wiki is clearly labeled "Support Forum".

yeah, but this is a support forum for a community project. It's not like you pay for help. Get the difference?

There are many good souls in here that invest much of their spare time to help out. Honor and respect their contribution with doing one's homework before asking already answered questions.

So, this is not a lmce specific problem. I've been in many forums on different topics. There are some members helping out and others that don't care to read sticky posts, faqs and so on. Of course the helping members get angry over time answering the same questions over and over. And then responses like "wah wah you are such a bad and rude community" come up.

best regards,
Hari

[teedge77]

Maybe in some stickies/FAQ we could show people some of the other forums for the parts of LMCE? like for mythtv, kubuntu/ubuntu and asterisk. sometimes the questions can be answered elsewhere too.

[Nephus]

yeah, but this is a support forum for a community project. It's not like you pay for help. Get the difference?

Never said, suggested, or implied that this was a paid service.  I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

There are many good souls in here that invest much of their spare time to help out. Honor and respect their contribution with doing one's homework before asking already answered questions.

I have yet to ask any questions other than a basic one about the deb package on the install CDs not behaving as it is supposed to according to the instructions given for it.  I honor and respect the many good souls, but I am merely pointing out that the self appointed welcome wagon, of which you are a prime example, would rather insult new users rather than welcoming them into the fold and strengthening the support for MCE.  I'm having several issues with my setup currently despite using recommended hardware, and you'll notice that I have yet to post a single question about it because I am searching for my answers or trying to figure it out on my own.  Despite that, it's people like you that leave me with the feeling that after I've exhausted those avenues that I don't have a community of experienced users to fall back on for a little advice now and then.

[hari]

yeah, but this is a support forum for a community project. It's not like you pay for help. Get the difference?

Never said, suggested, or implied that this was a paid service.  I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth.

If you don't want to see my point thats fine, but don't accuse me of something I have not done. Where did I say that I have cited you?

I honor and respect the many good souls, but I am merely pointing out that the self appointed welcome wagon, of which you are a prime example, would rather insult new users rather than welcoming them into the fold and strengthening the support for MCE.

look, I try to help out with coding, documentation and helping users. Many participants are fine with that. If you think my behavior is insulting and does not fit you, thats ok, too. You don't pay my salary and we are not family. I don't owe you anything. I owe really much to the many people that contribute to free software.

I'm having several issues with my setup currently despite using recommended hardware, and you'll notice that I have yet to post a single question about it because I am searching for my answers or trying to figure it out on my own.  Despite that, it's people like you that leave me with the feeling that after I've exhausted those avenues that I don't have a community of experienced users to fall back on for a little advice now and then.

so it seems like you prefer trolling around instead of debugging your problem and asking sane questions. I'm fine with that, too. If you change your mind, let us know. That package problem can't be hard to debug.

best regards,
Hari

[golgoj4]

Maybe in some stickies/FAQ we could show people some of the other forums for the parts of LMCE? like for mythtv, kubuntu/ubuntu and asterisk. sometimes the questions can be answered elsewhere too.

I think it may be a good idea actually. Maybe not to those forums exclusively, but sub-forums highlighting the different areas as you said.

Nephus: Instead of debating semantics, lets try and SOLVE some problems. I believe you mentioned the dis-organization of information. What specifically was the problem?

If you feel that we are too hard edged or unfriendly, im sorry for that. But there are many questions that get posted daily that people who have no connection to the other try and help. So please, lets move away from negative and try and improve by putting forth concrete ideas and suggestions, not nebulous personal observations.

[marrandy]

OK - it's time to say something.

Can everyone  'chill out'.

Attacking, whether it is newbies or 'experts' is neither helpful or productive.  The reason this regularly comes up, is because:-

1)   People have a been led to suspect from the video, that it just works.

2)   The docs are a mess, although they are getting better.

I bought fiire as to me, it was worth the extra $100 to get a so called working system.  It doesn't by the way.  I was testing pluto for 18+ months previously as well.  I have bought numerous pieces of compatible equipment, most of which are working in isolation.  I do contribute feedback, my equipment experiences on the wiki, when I can but due to work (longer than 40-hrs) and marriage, my time is a lot more limited than it used to be when I was younger.  Just because I can't contribute more, does NOT invalidate the following.  I also don't want any support on my issues at the moment.  I have spent over 120 hrs the past 4-months and work and home commitments have a higher priority at this time.

It didn't work with my haupaggue 250, 350 and pchdtv 3000 cards despite a couple of hours of fiire support, until I figured out that the v4l modules were loaded, instead of the, documented for over Two years, DVB module.  It worked as soon as installed that but I have numbers of slot issues so I'm switching to HDhome run. No slots needed.

It didn't work with my RCA HDTV despite many support calls, but I had never used the DVI input so that was suspect.  I couldn't find anyone that had a HD/Blue ray player to test.  Component quality was poor and breaks up.  Composite and S-video for my other older TV's in the house was virtually unusable.  After 6-weeks plus of frustration in January, I bought Sharp LC-42064U with free Sharp Blue-ray player and the fiire engine worked with the sharp stright away. The fiire station still doesn't though.  The blu-ray also worked with the RCA TV in HD straight away as well.  So why does the standard commercial blue-ray hdmi/dvi on the RCA work, but neither the fiire engine and fiire station  work on that TV ?

Something is seriously wrong with the outputs selected from the GUI screen.

I think the whole project is running before it can walk.

It's great to keep adding lot's of nifty new features ( and secondary teams can do that) but what about getting some project management (core team) in and focusing on and getting the basics working perfectly on limited hardware until later.  ie. in order:-

1)   A short list (e.g. 3) of systems/motherboards/graphics/sound that work 100% (not 90%, 98.6% or 99.8% but 100%) as a server/hybrid - and focus on those alone at the moment.  The server may be in the closet but the cable can still come through the wall into the other room.  This is called the lowest common denominator.

2)   A short list (e.g. 3) of systems/motherboards that work 100% as a director/client - and focus on those alone at the moment.

3)   Sort out and fix the standard GUI setup so that it works on every TV's input, just like commercial equipment does.

4)   Watching your pictures/photographs full screen (like flicker) just like any other media center. - Currently a major weakness.

5)   Fixing the movie system where cross-linked movies and movies with no graphic/description can be searched/selected/updated easily

6)  Next would be Blue-ray I suppose.

7)  Alarm systems (caddx) X-10. Insteon, A/C control (aprilairre) would be next or secondary teams in parallel.

Getting the basic (limited supported) hardware working 100% with all TV's is the crux.  Even though people's time is theirs and free.  It would be prudent to treat this just like a professional, commercial project if it is going to be a success.

You will then find many of the irritating newbie issues/questions will go away as they have been solved.  You can expand the motherboard/graphics/sound card/chipset later if appropriate.

I'm going to off the next couple of weeks, so have fun.  I wonder how many people will ignore the valid points and suggestions and go into attack mode.

[Zaerc]

OK - it's time to say something.

Can everyone  'chill out'.

Attacking, whether it is newbies or 'experts' is neither helpful or productive.  The reason this regularly comes up, is because:-

1)   People have a been led to suspect from the video, that it just works.

2)   The docs are a mess, although they are getting better.

I bought fiire as to me, it was worth the extra $100 to get a so called working system.  It doesn't by the way.  I was testing pluto for 18+ months previously as well.  I have bought numerous pieces of compatible equipment, most of which are working in isolation.  I do contribute feedback, my equipment experiences on the wiki, when I can but due to work (longer than 40-hrs) and marriage, my time is a lot more limited than it used to be when I was younger.  Just because I can't contribute more, does NOT invalidate the following.  I also don't want any support on my issues at the moment.  I have spent over 120 hrs the past 4-months and work and home commitments have a higher priority at this time.

It didn't work with my haupaggue 250, 350 and pchdtv 3000 cards despite a couple of hours of fiire support, until I figured out that the v4l modules were loaded, instead of the, documented for over Two years, DVB module.  It worked as soon as installed that but I have numbers of slot issues so I'm switching to HDhome run. No slots needed.

It didn't work with my RCA HDTV despite many support calls, but I had never used the DVI input so that was suspect.  I couldn't find anyone that had a HD/Blue ray player to test.  Component quality was poor and breaks up.  Composite and S-video for my other older TV's in the house was virtually unusable.  After 6-weeks plus of frustration in January, I bought Sharp LC-42064U with free Sharp Blue-ray player and the fiire engine worked with the sharp stright away. The fiire station still doesn't though.  The blu-ray also worked with the RCA TV in HD straight away as well.  So why does the standard commercial blue-ray hdmi/dvi on the RCA work, but neither the fiire engine and fiire station  work on that TV ?

Something is seriously wrong with the outputs selected from the GUI screen.

I think the whole project is running before it can walk.

It's great to keep adding lot's of nifty new features ( and secondary teams can do that) but what about getting some project management (core team) in and focusing on and getting the basics working perfectly on limited hardware until later.  ie. in order:-

1)   A short list (e.g. 3) of systems/motherboards/graphics/sound that work 100% (not 90%, 98.6% or 99.8% but 100%) as a server/hybrid - and focus on those alone at the moment.  The server may be in the closet but the cable can still come through the wall into the other room.  This is called the lowest common denominator.

2)   A short list (e.g. 3) of systems/motherboards that work 100% as a director/client - and focus on those alone at the moment.

3)   Sort out and fix the standard GUI setup so that it works on every TV's input, just like commercial equipment does.

4)   Watching your pictures/photographs full screen (like flicker) just like any other media center. - Currently a major weakness.

5)   Fixing the movie system where cross-linked movies and movies with no graphic/description can be searched/selected/updated easily

6)  Next would be Blue-ray I suppose.

7)  Alarm systems (caddx) X-10. Insteon, A/C control (aprilairre) would be next or secondary teams in parallel.

Getting the basic (limited supported) hardware working 100% with all TV's is the crux.  Even though people's time is theirs and free.  It would be prudent to treat this just like a professional, commercial project if it is going to be a success.

You will then find many of the irritating newbie issues/questions will go away as they have been solved.  You can expand the motherboard/graphics/sound card/chipset later if appropriate.

I'm going to off the next couple of weeks, so have fun.  I wonder how many people will ignore the valid points and suggestions and go into attack mode.

What exactly does this have to do with creating a FAQ? 

And what valid points are we talking about here?  I only see the wishlist of somebody who is clearly indicating he can't be bothered to put in the effort himself, yet everybody else should work on this like it's a professional, commercial project, for free!

Another thing is that we didn't sell you the fiire hardware, neither are we responsible for their (lack of) professional support.  If you have a problem with that I suggest you go bitch at them, not us.

[Lexje]

Just my 2cents:

I do agree on the 'feelings' behind these posts;
It is definitely true that a lot often depends on the 'tone' of how things are said or paraphrased.

Fortunately I am 'computer savvy ' enough to find my way around (most of the times).

Having found myself in most of these 'recognisable' positions creates a lot of understanding and goodwill.
Until now I have not really been into using a wiki, more precise mediawiki.
I have much more, as a user, used the SMF forums around on various projects.

What are my findings:
I agree that most, if not nearly all can be found in the wiki.
I also agree that more than often it is not obvious to find what you're searching.
I think it shouldn't be more easy to use google to do a general web search instead of using the search facility of the wiki.
This needs some more explaining:
I tend to think as a wiki as a book, maybe a book under way of being written.
When I use a book as a knowledgebase or technical document, I very often hop from chapter X, paragraph 2 to chapter D, paragraph 28 e.g. In order to do this I have an index at my disposal in the book.

When I 'read' the wiki, this index is what I'm missing most.
Having installed mediawiki on one of my servers, I have deliberately observed several wiki's (most mediawiki type) and have been able to distinguish several sites where the left part column is used as an analogue 'index', making it much more easy to navigate through a wiki. I have also encountered posts indicating that it is not so 'easy' to use the left column in this sense. At least it seems to need some digging into / studying of how to do this. But it is possible. (If I come accross good examples, I'll add links to this post later, unfortunately I have not bookmarked them.)

As for the forum:
I found this tool for SMF forum: Tagging System For Topics here: http://custom.simplemachines.org/mods/index.php?mod=579
I have not seen a SMF forum using it yet, but I have generally experienced that the usage of such 'tags' can be extremely rewarding and handy.
I don't even know if this mod is compatible with this SMF forum, but it seems fairly up to date.

There seems to be tagging possible at user level and at administrator level.
It might be an option to start using these type of tags to 'categorize' and bring more of a structure in the forum?

Another suggestion might be the usage of the freemind extension on the wiki.
Throughout my daily activity, personal as well as professionally, I rely heavily on all kinds of mindmapping capable tools. Lately I find Freemind very up to par.
It seems there is a wiki extension which allows for Freemind maps to be used inside a (media)wiki.
This would allow to set up links to various points either in the forum or in the wiki.
The Freemind mindmap allows then for folding / unfolding of treelike items, thus functioning as an easy searcheable index system.
It would also allow to use e.g. one Freemind mindmap as a FAQ, allowing for easy shuffling (if required later on) of items inside a defined hierarchy.

Just suggestions. Always prepared to help the project where possible.

Erwin

[indulis]

FAQs in forums are a pain 'cos they take more effort than a wiki to manage. I've never seen one work really well, apart from information that never changes.

As an example, someone says on page 1 "the way to get your XYZ to work is to go to / and type rm *" (don't do this please Linux newbies!).  On page 5 someone quotes page 1 and posts "dont ever do this".  Too late- you have either done it or you have to read the whole FAQ to mentally collate the contradictory info.

FAQ by all means- but I think just a pointer to the WIKI FAQ page.

Cheers,

Indulis

[hari]

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/FAQ

[indulis]

Hari,

Yes I knew there was an FAQ there (maybe too broad in scope?), so the point was not to go about putting FAQs in forums 'cos the info should be in the Wiki in some sort of FAQ.

Indulis

[colinjones]

As an example, someone says on page 1 "the way to get your XYZ to work is to go to / and type rm *" (don't do this please Linux newbies!).  On page 5 someone quotes page 1 and posts "dont ever do this".  Too late- you have either done it or you have to read the whole FAQ to mentally collate the contradictory info.

Off topic but related to the rm * point, very amusing instance of this happening on another board, its like watching a car crash in slow motion http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=8956.msg139003#msg139003

[valent]

There are some great tips here:
http://linuxmce.wordpress.com/

that would be great for users to see also in the wiki, like how to custom partition the hard drive...