Questions on ZWave source code

[kinman]

ZWave computer interface fires only PIR sensor commands.
Computer <--- Interface <--- PIR

The light states can be polled passively.
Computer ---> Interface ---> Switch/Dimmer (ZRW/ZDW)

Transmitter controls other devices, so the computer interface should be able to receive those signals.
Transmitter (ZTW) ---> Plug-in module (ZRP)

Do you think it is a computer interface firmware issue it cannot fires transmitter or remote control commands? or it is a design issue?

[PeteK]

The Zwave interface device should be able to receive commands from other transmitters.  All it should take is some coding to process the commands.  Does this answer your question?

[ddamron]

Hi Dan/Pete, I am interesting in ZWave using GSD: LinuxMCE-1.1-SRC/src/Generic_Serial_Device/Embedded Devices/*/Ruby/ do you mean we can just work on *.rb no need *.cpp/*.h? Because I am familiar on Perl and afraid of thousand lines of C codes.

cheers/kin

I'm just putting the finishing touches on my Insteon PLM interface, completely done in GSD/Ruby.

Ruby has it's limitations, as I found out, but a good programmer will find a way around them..

I'd have to say, the most limiting factor of Ruby is it's single thread..  That's a pain... but still workable..

This is my first experience in Ruby... so it's been a long haul, trying to learn the syntax, command structure, etc..

I must say, now that I know more about it, I'll be using it more often...  It's got HUGE potential..

I would say it is possible to implement ZWave in Ruby... heck, I did Insteon!

That said, I guess I should look into exactly what's required.. to tell you the truth, I haven't looked at ZWave's command structure very much..

I'm assuming it's probably similar to Insteon..

Good Luck, and Have Fun!

Dan

[kinman]

The Zwave interface device should be able to receive commands from other transmitters.  All it should take is some coding to process the commands.  Does this answer your question?

Oh I see. All are about coding.
Because I find it contradictory. There are polling codes to get states from switch. But the switch itself send commands to the computer interface actively. It sounds different software implementation.

[kinman]

Hi Dan/Pete, I am interesting in ZWave using GSD: LinuxMCE-1.1-SRC/src/Generic_Serial_Device/Embedded Devices/*/Ruby/ do you mean we can just work on *.rb no need *.cpp/*.h? Because I am familiar on Perl and afraid of thousand lines of C codes.

cheers/kin

I'm just putting the finishing touches on my Insteon PLM interface, completely done in GSD/Ruby.

Ruby has it's limitations, as I found out, but a good programmer will find a way around them..

I'd have to say, the most limiting factor of Ruby is it's single thread..  That's a pain... but still workable..

This is my first experience in Ruby... so it's been a long haul, trying to learn the syntax, command structure, etc..

I must say, now that I know more about it, I'll be using it more often...  It's got HUGE potential..

I would say it is possible to implement ZWave in Ruby... heck, I did Insteon!

That said, I guess I should look into exactly what's required.. to tell you the truth, I haven't looked at ZWave's command structure very much..

I'm assuming it's probably similar to Insteon..

Good Luck, and Have Fun!

Dan

Do you think the GSD can be implemented in Perl? Both are Gem 
If I try to implement the ZWave using GSD, do I need the devkit document? Is there any other way to learn the interface commands?
Can I take a look on your Insteon PLM interface? I can find three devices under LinuxMCE-1.1-SRC: 1767 DSC Power5020 Serial, 1781 Apex Destiny 6100, Denon-AVCA1SRA.

[ddamron]

Kinman,

Look at other threads in the developers' section, you'll find older versions of my code all over...

I think someone is working on implementing Perl as an alternative GSD language.  check other threads again...

You will MOST DEFINATELY NEED the ZWave devkit.  No Question.  If you don't have it, don't try. 

Happy Coding!

Dan

[ddamron]

Please don't take that last comment the wrong way..
I don't like flamers, and I will NOT flame here.

you really really will need the devkit

Dan

[1audio]

The ZWave lights reporting back to the controller isn't a technology issue. Its a patent mess. Lutron has a patent on a light switch reporting via radio when its switched. Within days of Leviton shipping their first switch with their implementation of the feedback they got sued. These are both $B+ companies with big legal resources.

The ZWave interface code is all propriatary and only available under NDA. (Why, I don't know, since it only works with chips they sell). Pluto has a license and may be able to share it with developers who sign an agreement under the license. Not very open source but probably the only way. ZWave is on its third generation chips and the stuff works pretty well. The Pluto ZWave code has some bugs and needs some enhancements. And the USB interfaces on the market all are a problem under Linux. The Leviton interface is serial so it should be easy to integrate, however not yet. It may be possible to implement the Leviton feedback feature as well, but only as protected code.

Why ZWave, with the Insteon stuff almost done? There is a battle for what the industry sees as a big opportunity. Some private solutions like Lutron are doing very well. Zen-sys and Insteon are trying to get in as are UPB, Echelon and possibly others. Insteon has a broad product offering due to the parent company's business of selling home automation stuff to geeks. Zen-sys went after big players and landed some major customers- Cooper, Leviton and Intermatic. This leaves only smaller players for the other technologies. And over the next few years we will probably see a lot of ZWave lighting stuff at retail. The Intermatic stuff is in Home Depots and Lowes around the US already. Unfortunately except for lighting there isn't much other ZWave stuff of interest yet. A few thermotats, some PIR's and not much else yet.

[PeteK]

The issue with Insteon is that it's a 120V/60Hz solution currently.  Technical work-arounds of the Zwave patent have occured such that I believe more 2-way devices are availalbe.  In the absence of that, polling can accomplish light state maintainence as well.

[kinman]

Please don't take that last comment the wrong way..
I don't like flamers, and I will NOT flame here.

you really really will need the devkit

Dan

Never mind! I wonder if Pluto will lend this document:
Zensys, INS10247, Instruction, Z-Wave™ ZW0102/ZW0201 Appl. Prg. Guide
The relation between Pluto and Linuxmce sounds like Redhat and Linux. They are willing to release their C source code. I think we can try to contact Pluto something like "any programmer freelance available ".

[kinman]

The issue with Insteon is that it's a 120V/60Hz solution currently.  Technical work-arounds of the Zwave patent have occured such that I believe more 2-way devices are availalbe.  In the absence of that, polling can accomplish light state maintainence as well.

Yes! Insteon is the best, but 120V and no european square electrical box  Insteon just says no plan for 240V (also patent issue? ) It should be an easy job by changing the resistor capacitor value. Do you know which brand is trying to bypass the patent? I find the polling method has some limitations for example, someone press the light switch, states report back to controller and the computer decides to turn on the light.

[kinman]

The ZWave lights reporting back to the controller isn't a technology issue. Its a patent mess. Lutron has a patent on a light switch reporting via radio when its switched. Within days of Leviton shipping their first switch with their implementation of the feedback they got sued. These are both $B+ companies with big legal resources.

Lutron does not produce 240V switch. My area is 240V and I discover a new patent: A 240V light switch reporting via radio when its switched. 

[kinman]

The ZWave lights reporting back to the controller isn't a technology issue. Its a patent mess. Lutron has a patent on a light switch reporting via radio when its switched. Within days of Leviton shipping their first switch with their implementation of the feedback they got sued. These are both $B+ companies with big legal resources.

Zen-sys and Lutron sounds like netscape invent the browser, M$ft get the patent.

[kinman]

The ZWave interface code is all propriatary and only available under NDA. (Why, I don't know, since it only works with chips they sell). Pluto has a license and may be able to share it with developers who sign an agreement under the license. Not very open source but probably the only way. ZWave is on its third generation chips and the stuff works pretty well. The Pluto ZWave code has some bugs and needs some enhancements. And the USB interfaces on the market all are a problem under Linux. The Leviton interface is serial so it should be easy to integrate, however not yet. It may be possible to implement the Leviton feedback feature as well, but only as protected code.

Woo you are an insider... Do you have contact person of Pluto? We don't need the whole devkit but just one or two pdf. Do you know why Pluto works on ZWave cpp and not go for GSD/Ruby? Yes USB a problem under Linux. Also the reliability of serial is better than USB.

[ddamron]

Kinman,
Are you for real?!?
There's lots of documentation out there..
There ARE reasons to program in C++ vs Ruby
If I know C++, I would have programmed in that instead.
The only reasons I did it in Ruby were:
1.  It was available
2.  Less of a learning curve..
3.  It's INTERPRETED.. meaning I could test my code instantly to make sure it worked.

I would suggest you start READING some wiki's on THIS site.

Nobody spoon fed me with code, I had to dig, lots of trial and error...

I coughed up the $$ for Insteon Devkit, even though Pluto has one too..

Search the wiki for GSD RUBY... that should give you a start..

Regards,

Dan