Is anyone really using X10 successfully?

[tschak909]

yup very intriguing.. so i guess... if we can't get zwave to play nice, it's either Insteon, or Zigbee...because we damned sure don't have EIB over here in the states, which _REALLY SUCKS_ .....

So basically, we can't implement two-way communication AT ALL on any of these systems because of the patent?

I wanna fucking scream.

-Thom

[tschak909]

Basically, what I want is an OPEN, RELIABLE standard for implementing home automation signaling.. and something tells me that Echelon is wayy too proprietary. Is this too much to ask?

-Thom

[marv2097]

Hi,

I am also interesting in developing some hardware to work with LMCE. I am currently just getting started in some basic stuff to control relays and read temperatures/light levels etc. It is currently all based around RS485 wired networks an uses a simple serial interface. I dont see any reason why this simple serial approach cant be migrated to use a wireless based system.

I really think the advantage that X10 etc have is cost. The lamp/appliance modules are cheap. Any form of WIFI/ZIG or other heavy system is going to impact the cost of each module. We need to find a way to do this that wont cost 100s per unit.

[PeteK]

Insteon isn't bad.  It's about $35-45/module.  It does have bi-directional communications capability, and they have some neat hand-held controls as well.

[tschak909]

i can't wait until the tablets/umpc's come down in price and I can put em on walls near doorways, on coffee table etc... ;-)

-Thom

[Zaerc]

The two way communications in ZWave is constrained by a patent held by Lutron. Even though the system can monitor and display status of the lights the patent prevent implementation. Leviton came up with a work-around and got sued by Lutron withing days of shipping. Thise are big players ($1B+) and can afford the lawyers to play the game. Pluto and the small players in this market would just be crushed to step into those problems. The Leviton implementation could be rolled into LMCE but not without complicated NDA's and restricted software. Perhaps this will change (there are some new enhancements ZWave stack) but they won't happen real fast.

Wow, screw that!  With all it's problems and now these ludicris restrictions as well, I think ZWave is becomming less and less interesting.  For now I'll be sticking with X10, as I doubt anybody will get sued for implementing bi-directional support with that...

Isn't there any open system that actually welcomes third party development/support?

[PeteK]

Paul asked me to work on the Insteon stuff because he got a lot of requests for it, so I'm guessing it's fairly popular.  They do publish their interface and also have an IDE for the software that actually runs on the moduels, which is pretty cool.  Their support kind of sucks, but the products seem pretty neat, even with a few quirks.

[tschak909]

what quirks?

-Thom

[nite_man]

I setup CM11 and test it with TM13U. It works perfectly But IMHO X10 is not a choice for professional installation. Z-Wave or ZigBee are more appropriate technologies. 

[PeteK]

what quirks?

-Thom

The most annoying one I've found so far is that you can't control the ramp rate when setting the level for an individual light.  The only way to consistently control ramp rate is to create a group for that light, which involves overhead, and I'm not sure how well it scales.  Linking devices and creating groups is a somewhat cumbersome process, as the software driver has to push bytes out to each device's eeprom to program it.

Another issue I've run across is that several commands in the command table exist only on paper.  They haven't been implemented in any devices shipping so far.  Of course, some of those commands are supposed to address the issues above....

[dnadeau]

It's sad to hear all the bad talk of X10. For those of us who have nice X10 installs, are we just out of luck when it comes to good CM11A and RF integration in linuxmce? When it comes to price, X10 is still by far the best choice. Besides, you can get this signalinc repeater http://www.smarthome.com/4826a.html from Smarthome.com for about $80 and I've found it makes a simple X10 setup with 20 modules very reliable.

[1audio]

Isn't there any open system that actually welcomes third party development/support?

Lonworks is as close as you will get. And outside of the US there is a lot of hardware options. Far more that anyone else. Some is expensive ($600 light switches w/ LCD displays) but there are accessible solutions. Its the US thats a wasteland for this stuff. As for a lot of other technology. In a way the posterchild for failed free markets (like the backwards Cell phone systems and the monopoly cable/sat content providers etc.). I can possibly get you dev info for Lonworks/Echelon if you are interested. I'd like to see it supported. And they have all the two way communications etc. you could want.

[marv2097]

IMHO its about time a truely open solution was created/adapted. One that is portable to different mediums so it will work well over twisted pair, powerline and wireless.

EIB/KNX has this potential but its all tied up so only the big boys can play and license the stuff. At the end of the day we are only talking about relatively simple messaging with 2 way features. We need something that  developers can work with with simple hardware and that can be scaled up as required.

The simplicity of X10 and its low cost is great but the limitations it has can be very frustrating.

[chrisbirkinshaw]

When you say that licensing restrictions mean no 2-way communications, are you saying that for LMCE to send a command and then poll the device to check it has been received is not allowed? Or do you mean something else?

Regards,

Chris

[ytuxedo002]

BUMP!!

This thread is kinda old...so i'm re-asking this question.  Anybody got X10 working in LMCE yet??