Author Topic: WebDT 366s - Brand new still in the box. $75.00 (Read 36779 times)

ThaMighty1 · « **Reply #30 on:** February 22, 2011, 11:59:36 pm »

phenigma, brake, and others thanks for the info.

Yeah doesnt sound like it would be worth the risk if there was no communication, etc. Doesnt seems like there are any available anyway so it doesnt matter but i appreciate the warning and the info.

tschak909 · « **Reply #31 on:** February 23, 2011, 12:03:04 am »

Guys, you can get them from http://www.lmcecompatible.com/ and proceeds from that fund development.

-Thom

totallymaxed · « **Reply #32 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:28:24 am »

Quote from: posde on February 18, 2011, 08:00:10 am

phenigma,

a real orbiter (as the PadOrbiter running on the WebDTs) is much nicer than a Touch Orbiter.

My .02€

I'm not knocking PadOrbiter...but I really dont think thats true in fact. The N800 Orbiter and PadOrbiter carry all of the baggage of the full Orbiter ie code complexity for no purpose, the need to update the Orbiter whenever new screens or other structural UI changes are made to the system they are attached to (which means that someone has to add support in source code for those screens to each orbiter implementation). There is no performance gain to speak of either.

Whereas with Touch Orbiters the only code that needs to be updated is proxy_orbiter if new screens etc are added - and you do that code change once for all Touch Orbiters and all systems that use them. So given reasonable hardware ie mid market Android device (some low cost Android devices are a little underpowered with the current Java based Android Touch Orbiter), pretty much any Arm based touch device, Any Atom based touch device and any iOS device then your experience will be good.

The battery life off the DT366 is pretty limited too... but thats purely a hardware limitation.

My .02€

All the best

Andrew

tschak909 · « **Reply #33 on:** February 23, 2011, 02:56:34 am »

well, nevermind that no matter what is done, there is a hard limit to what Proxy Orbiter can render. No matter what, you're rendering single images, and sending whole images back in every single event.

This is one reason, I am currently doing the Java DCE port, to do a real Android based Orbiter, that uses native widgets.

-Thom

Marie.O · « **Reply #34 on:** February 23, 2011, 08:19:39 am »

Quote from: totallymaxed on February 23, 2011, 02:28:24 am

I'm not knocking PadOrbiter...but I really dont think thats true in fact. The N800 Orbiter and PadOrbiter carry all of the baggage of the full Orbiter ie code complexity for no purpose, the need to update the Orbiter whenever new screens or other structural UI changes are made to the system they are attached to (which means that someone has to add support in source code for those screens to each orbiter implementation). There is no performance gain to speak of either.

It is not that I am making this up. SWMBO yesterday told me "this other thingie is much nicer". I looked at her puzzled, until I realized she meant the WebDT being much nicer than the 7" android. I asked her why, and she said, it is much faster... This comes from a person who is absolutely, postively, without a doubt, NOT computer literate.

Quote

Whereas with Touch Orbiters the only code that needs to be updated is proxy_orbiter if new screens etc are added - and you do that code change once for all Touch Orbiters and all systems that use them. So given reasonable hardware ie mid market Android device (some low cost Android devices are a little underpowered with the current Java based Android Touch Orbiter), pretty much any Arm based touch device, Any Atom based touch device and any iOS device then your experience will be good.

This is not relevant from the user perspective. They want the best experience they can get, and it seems, the user, does get a better experience from a native orbiter.

Quote

The battery life off the DT366 is pretty limited too...

That is 100% accurate. Which is why we keep it at the charger most of the time. No idea, if newer batteries would help.

totallymaxed · « **Reply #35 on:** February 23, 2011, 09:39:15 am »

Quote from: posde on February 23, 2011, 08:19:39 am

It is not that I am making this up. SWMBO yesterday told me "this other thingie is much nicer". I looked at her puzzled, until I realized she meant the WebDT being much nicer than the 7" android. I asked her why, and she said, it is much faster... This comes from a person who is absolutely, postively, without a doubt, NOT computer literate.

I definitely agree with what your saying above if the 7" Android tablet your SWMBO was using was not a top-end device - the DT366 wins out (apart from on battery life thats is!). But if you do the same comparison with someone who has a high-end Android 7-10" tablet running Touch Orbiter then our experience with similar users is the reverse - performance is as good or better and on weight & battery life the Android device wins easily. So I guess what i am saying is that you need to compare Touch Orbiter on more comparable hardware.

For example if we put an iPad running Touch Orbiter into the mix then the iPad will beat everything currently - it is really fast and in all other areas from a non-technical users perspective it is close to ideal. Honestly we have customers who are totally won over by the iPad...it a big win for anyone who has a SWMBO honestly!

Quote

This is not relevant from the user perspective. They want the best experience they can get, and it seems, the user, does get a better experience from a native orbiter.

Again our experience is that if the physical device is equivalently 'nice' ie iPad or high-end other touch pad style device then Touch Orbiters deliver a fantastic user experience to the user. At the end of the day we sell what the SWMBO's of this world want...because they are very often the key to making a 'sale' to be frank!

Quote

That is 100% accurate. Which is why we keep it at the charger most of the time. No idea, if newer batteries would help.

Hmmm...they help a little but not really that much. The distributor of the DT's here in the UK says that they have always had complaints about buttery life...its the biggest complaint from their customers.

All the best

Andrew

Marie.O · « **Reply #36 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:35:35 pm »

We probably should split this topic and move it to user, but apart from that, one thing that really is a bother with the touch orbiter, is the fact, that sometime it does not update the screen correct, i.e. it never shows the TV remote after selecting TV. This works perfectly with the native (Pad)Orbiter.

If your customers are happy with their iPads, I am happy for them. I personally find 400-500EUR for a remote a bit pricey. But if people already have an iPad (or use it for other stuff as well), the price point might be more interesting.

totallymaxed · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2011, 06:45:18 pm »

Quote from: posde on February 23, 2011, 06:35:35 pm

We probably should split this topic and move it to user, but apart from that, one thing that really is a bother with the touch orbiter, is the fact, that sometime it does not update the screen correct, i.e. it never shows the TV remote after selecting TV. This works perfectly with the native (Pad)Orbiter.

If your customers are happy with their iPads, I am happy for them. I personally find 400-500EUR for a remote a bit pricey. But if people already have an iPad (or use it for other stuff as well), the price point might be more interesting.

We dont have the problem with the TV remote that you describe so thats not an issue and in general many of our customer have iPod's, iPhone's or iPad's already and so sticking with them is not an issue for them either. For those customers that have Android devices or would prefer a lower price point then they have that option too and as long as you dont choose a low-spec Android device performance is really excellent.

Splitting the topic seems a good idea but we've probably done the topic to 'death' now anyway :-)

All the best

Andrew

ThaMighty1 · « **Reply #38 on:** March 14, 2011, 05:28:23 pm »

Quote from: phenigma on February 18, 2011, 01:52:06 am

If I was to do it again I'd probably go for an Archos 7 Home Tablet and use an Android Touch Orbiter.

J.

phenigma

In your opinion how does the Archos 7 Home tablet compare to the Nokia n800??

I have the option right now to get either of them for about the same price. Looking at it the Archos looks like it would be better but looking through the wiki and the forums i dont see much mention of the Archos 7 Home tablet.

thx

tschak909 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 14, 2011, 05:59:24 pm »

The Archos 7 for now would run the Android proxy orbiters (two developers have written them, darrenmason and los93sol).

While the Nokia N800 would run the native Orbiter that was built for it. (http://diapub.com/~michael)

-Thom

phenigma · « **Reply #40 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:08:24 pm »

As Thom says 2 different Orbiter software flavours, two very different devices, it really depends on how you want to use it.

The n800 kinda fits in your pocket, I find that Orbiter causes the batteries to drain pretty quickly, so it has to stay plugged in the majority of the time. It can be tough to hit some of the buttons without using the stylus. My n800 lives on my Dining Room table, it's very small and unobtrusive.

The Archos, I've only used one (an Archos 7 Internet Tablet) for about 5 minutes, I liked it for the most part. It ran Android (lots of apps), it was snappy and the screensize is bigger, which is better for 'coffee table' Orbiter use (flimsy built-in stand). I have not had a chance to try Orbiter or TouchOrbiter on an Archos itself. The Archos 7 Home Tablet is the same size with less speed/graphics capability than the Internet Tablet and would be more than enough to run Orbiter alone.

It comes down to what you want to do with your device and how you want to use it.

J.

tschak909 · « **Reply #41 on:** March 14, 2011, 10:24:55 pm »

as soon as there is a known meego build for Archos7, I will port PadOrbiter v2 to it.

-Thom

ThaMighty1 · « **Reply #42 on:** March 15, 2011, 09:58:02 pm »

Thom and Phenigma thanks for the info.

I had taken a look at the 2 Android orbiters. I would probably more go for the simpler direct one that darrenmason did because right now i dont see myself needing to access stuff from outside my network and some of the other features that the other one has. But im still in the process of piecemailing my system together so once its up and im actually using it then that opinion might change. Would be interested in seeing how the PadOrbiter would look on the Archos7. Hopefully the meego build will come out soon.

Right now im only thinking of having the "couch orbiter" that i would use on the couch in the living room to control lighting and media but eventually i would like to put in some built in wall orbiters at the front and back door to control stuff.

The N800 GUI does look amazing but it is kinda small. It would work for the living room orbiter but would prob not work too well as a wall mounted orbiter. Ill probably lean more towards the n800 for now because i just found out the Archos tablet i was looking at is running Android1.6 instead of 2.1 like was advertised.

Thanks for the info guys. Im still trying to put all this together in my head on what i want and how i want my system to work.

edit: typos

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