kubuntu 7.10 Apt services

[pikohn]

Hello,

I am new to linuxmce and have an issue. I am running kubuntu 7.10 and have no way of updating any packages through apt. Is this something other people are experiencing? If so, how did you go about resolving this?

Mike

[tschak909]

You won't be able to in 7.10. We had to completely re-do the installation mechanism in the 8.10 alphas to deal with this problem. Please install the 8.10 alpha, as we can no longer realistically support 7.10.

Instructions are on the LinuxMCE-0810-alpha2 page in the wiki, which you can click on from the front page.

-Thom

[garg_art2002]

You won't be able to in 7.10. We had to completely re-do the installation mechanism in the 8.10 alphas to deal with this problem. Please install the 8.10 alpha, as we can no longer realistically support 7.10.

Instructions are on the LinuxMCE-0810-alpha2 page in the wiki, which you can click on from the front page.

-Thom

Hi Thom
I tried installing the alpha2 and it failed in  ./post-install.sh saying one error. It was such a long step and lined of error scrolled off.
Would it not be better to use archive sources to run APT than to install Alpha2.
I am really think what should I do? Perhaps I will install XBMC in the meanwhile we get the 0810 upto a RC level.
Another idea will be to consider releasing just flikr, dvd rip/play and tv capability. Not sure what percent people use astrix, floor light, security etc. Those can be introduced later on.... Just an idea.
Anil

[tschak909]

can you try the latest build, and get me a capture of what the error was during the post install?

and, no. The original system spec will not be altered, all modules will be delivered as one.

-Thom

[wierdbeard65]

and, no. The original system spec will not be altered, all modules will be delivered as one.

This puts the project in a somewhat precarious position, IMHO. I would be interested to know what proprtion of the user-base come to MCE initially for the Media and add VoIP / HA / Security at a later date? I suspect it would be quite high, which would suggest that your stance, while admirable, is not very practical.

We don't seem to have a supported version, other than an Alpha! This is not going to win us friends in the outside world. Surely it's better to get a working Beta or even better Release with limited functionality rather than waiting until everything is ready? The additional stuff can always be added in as it becomes mature.

Speaking for myself, I'm probably going to end up messing around with Designer to produce a skin without this stuff on it. I don't want VoIP at all and HA / Security are waaaaaay down the road at the moment!

I guess the question really is, "Is LinuxMCE useable and supported (in any version) now?" If it's still a project in development, then a lot of newbies and inexpreienced users may well do better to wait for at least the Betas if not a release. Otherwise, the risk is that many will try, fail and then give up. Their experiences will spread and the project will get a bad name that it doesn't deserve.

[tschak909]

I understand your position. I really do, but...

1. We got caught in an unfortunate position when Pluto stopped development. We were left with a database which had been heavily modified to go in a vastly different direction than the original product, and we couldn't undo the damage. We literally had to restart the entire database from the 0710 release, on a new master server, and continue development there. sqlCVS by its very nature, can not support multiple branches, or sources of divergent database material. So we capped the original 0710 database, and continued onward.

2. We found ourselves with a system in which the underlying packaging system and the overlay of the LinuxMCE system were at odds with each other because of the quick way that LinuxMCE was ported over in the first place. It was not possible to keep the system maintained in this fashion, so the entire installation and upgrade process had to be refactored. Couple this with the simple fact that we had to learn the entire process of engineering a release from scratch, a process which took us over a year（over half of that was the work of ONE person, who left the project for personal reasons.), and you'll start to understand the uniqueness of our position.

Future versions will be upgradeable.

3. I understand this isn't a system for everyone, however, what is the problem with simply not using the other buttons? You're going to spend untold amounts of time, removing features from the UI, will they be the right ones? Probably the right ones for you, and not for someone else. But really, if you don't need all these aspects of the system at some point, then why aren't you using something simpler? This system is a smart home platform, and it is trying for much larger goals.

We support the alpha, and will continue to support it as it goes to beta, to release, and over again. The 0710 release has gotten too old to realistically support. I know this makes some people mad, but there is no realistic option to support it.

If you want to see this release happen sooner, then buckle down, and help us complete it. It really is that simple.

-Thom

[wierdbeard65]

Thanks for the response to my post, Thom, and for taking it in the vein it was intended.

I think part of the "issue" is the word "Alpha". It implies unstable and use at your own risk. Don't even consider for a "production" environment! If you look at the website, it implies that people who want it to work should go with 710, which isn't supported. Hence my point.

Moving on to your comments about "Simply not using". I have yet to get my system running to the point I can actually play with it, so I may be talking out of my arse here (for a change) but doesn't the UI get added to as features are added. For example, as more people exist / log in, more buttons appear on the Telecom row, right? All I want is for the entire row to disappear if nothing is configured for that row. If I install MAME, then the row should appear. If I add HVAC to my HA then climate appears and so on.

You suggest using something else. Like what? It seems I can go with Myth or X-whatever it's called, but then I don't get the neat media management, the PXE booting and the, frankly, awesome Orbiters.

MCE is a large and, hopefully, flexible project. No two installs will be the same or use the same features. I am simply suggesting that unimplemented features shouldn't clutter the interface. If It won't do that automagically, then I may well have to "help" it 

I would LOVE to help, I really would. I have made a donation (albeit paltry) to your work, but currently I lack the skills, equipment or stability to be of much practical use to the project. I travel extensively with work so don't get much time at home to play with the system. I need to be able to install it and then essentially forget it. WAF / FAF is VERY high on my needs list!!! IF I can get a dev system set up on my laptop under VMWare, then I will start looking at learning to develop. But I needs much help doing that. I have tried a few times and it has met a sticky end

[merkur2k]

I still dont get why people cant handle having the "extra" stuff on their screen. consider it a reminder that you arent using the system as it is intended to be used.

[wierdbeard65]

Simple Answer:

WAF / FAF 

Complex answer:

Linux (never mind MCE) is, in my view, primarily about choice. Yes, MCE CAN have VoIP integration, it CAN interface with your security systems it CAN control your central heating etc. etc. but if I CHOOSE not to implement them, then that is up to me. I live in a Victorian, semi-detatched house. I don't have an alarm system as the area I live in has it's own alarm (otherwise known as nosy neighbours  ) I don't intend to install one. We don't use the phone much (we're an anti-social lot!) preferring to use mobiles. I therefore am not going to invest in a load of VoIP hardware. These are choices I've made and I'd rather not have my UI cluttered with buttons that don't do anything.

I know, for example, that Thom has spent time adding MAME support to MCE. Does it appear regardless of whether it has been implemented in a particular install? No. He could argue that by not using MAME

you aren't using the system as it is intended to be used

but he doesn't.

Look at it another way, what if, over the years, support for another 5, 10, 100 areas is added by enthusiastic devs? Should we have them ALL on the Orbiter UI?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining or asking for anything here - I'm happy to get rid of the unnecessary (to my system) buttons myself - it will make for an interesting exercise in HADesigner. My wider point is that it seems to me to be a shame to hold up Beta or even release of the product while waiting for some of the slightly less used features.

[tschak909]

hmm. This just shows how out of touch you are with development.

Please actually spend some time using the system, before making comments about how the system should be.

-Thom

[tschak909]

to elaborate my point:

* Yes, the subsections are there, but f you aren't using the features, the menu items do not show up.

If you do not install the MAME module, its button does not show up in media.

You can turn off buttons within the different scenario groups by deselecting their checkboxes from the web admin, which you would know if you actually spent some time clicking through the pages in the web admin.

I know this may drive you batty, but I am not budging on this one. The different features do work, I am using them on a day by day basis, you can _SEE_ that from my videos!

Why do I have to keep fighting on this point? You're wasting my valuable time from doing development work.

-Thom

[totallymaxed]

Hello,

I am new to linuxmce and have an issue. I am running kubuntu 7.10 and have no way of updating any packages through apt. Is this something other people are experiencing? If so, how did you go about resolving this?

Mike

Hi there,

You need to update /etc/apt/sources.list to use the old.releases repo now that Canonical have frozen the updates for 0710. See the line below. Update each line in your sources.list that refers to the original releases.ubuntu.com repos with the lines below as appropriate;

deb http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/

If on the other hand you are looking to update 0710 to 0810-alpha using apt-get... well then your out of luck as Thom explained already.

All the best

Andrew