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General => Installation issues => Topic started by: tridum on January 30, 2010, 05:01:08 pm

Title: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on January 30, 2010, 05:01:08 pm
Hi...

Like some of you, Im very new to Linux, and very new to Linux MCE.  Via some very wonderful dinners, as well as some other persuading on my part, i've convinced my wife to allow me to deploy Linux MCE throughout our new home.  The house itself is a work in progress, so I have a lot of options at this point.  But my overall objective is to utilize the full capability of what Linux MCE is capable of doing i.e. security, phone, media sharing, gaming...etc.

I've been watching the forums for a while, and attempting to get a handle on what is capable as well as what I'd like to do with this project.  I have a lot of questions, but, mostly i have a lot of requests for opinions on what i should be doing.  My list of "wishes" for the system im going to install are not that unreasonable (at least in my head they aren't) but I figure all of you that are reading this are the experts.  So i finally took the dive and signed up for the forums to put my ignorance out there.

Some Basics:

The House - 4200 square feet 2-story, 3 car garage, 5 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms, situated on the fairway of public golf course on the otherside of my fence.  It's located in Phoenix, Arizona, so there is a lot of entertaining outside the home.  We have no pool currently but there are plans to do so at the end of this year.

The Occupants - 2 Adults, my wife and myself, 4 kids ranging in age from 16 to 4 with the middle 2 being 13, 12 respectively.
(she is a web developer with the community college district here, and im a property manager)...so we are not completely unfamiliar with technical issues

My budget: 5k max..ahhaha....that is to include all things required and this is over a year in which she will allow me to set this up in the home.

Now, when i say "all things required", what I mean is that i would like to do certain things promised by the system that in a nutshell i've kinda read can be done....

My Objectives:

1. I would like to set up locations in all 5 bedrooms as well as family room, kitchen, office and backyard (more on this later) where i can access all media, as well as watch live tv, access the web, and security features (cameras) and Voice services.  Basically i would like the entire system functional by the end of the year.

2. I do currently have computers in the home, but Im going to be purchasing new equipment or will be building the equipment i need, as well as possibly running cat 5/6 throughout the home.

3. I would like to incorporate my children's game playing into the system...they have most consoles now, (Xbox, PS3, Wii) and this is a big one, and a biq question on if they can centralize these consoles and use them in all zones via the system for game playing?

4. I would like to add a element to the system of voice control if possible of some of the functions of the service (light's on, lights off, tv on, tv off) simplet commands

5. I would like to make a test bed for my wife to test out work related projects (web servers): you name it they do it, regarding web pages at her job...and she should be able to access this info from remote locations

6. I'd like to do this in phases, so....build core, install it, add bedrooms, add family room, kitchen, add backyard...etc.

LET ME BE CLEAR WITH THIS, im really really really open to suggestions, comments, help of any sort ...in other words i guess im asking what all ofyou would do for a reliable system based off the parameters that im attempting to accomplish...

THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ANSWER OR FOR JUST CARING ENOUGH TO READ!

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: billytwowilly on January 31, 2010, 05:14:32 am
Hi,

Here's some observations. I'm in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, so maybe I'm way off and things are way cheaper in Arizona, but:

1. You should think about exactly what you want in each room. You could blow 5 grand just on the tvs for the 5 bedrooms, kitchen, office and backyard. For a massive house like that I think a ten grand budget would be more reasonable. If you can't spend that then you need to scale back or change your expectations.

Basically, If you want home automation, you're looking at spending ~45 dollars per switch (z-wave) instead of $5 a switch(if you have multiple switches on a light you only need to replace 1 of them) so you need to count all of the stuff you want  to automate and multiply it by 45 dollars. Then look at all the places you want security cameras and multiply that by whatever they cost ($100 is probably reasonable, I could be way off). Then look at all the places you want tv's and add ~350 for the frontends to run the tv's. On top of that you need a core in the basement which will probably cost approx $1000 for a decent one, and at some point as you get more media you will probably want to throw a NAS on the network as well, which adds more cost. On top of this you will probably want several orbiters (think super fancy universal remotes), which will set you back between 200-600 each, depending on what you go with as the hardware.

If you don't want any home automation and you already own all the tv's you need, then you could probably do this for 5 grand. You would spend approx 3200 on media directors for the 9 locations you mentioned, 1000 on a core and then buy a couple orbiter platforms with whatever is left.

2. I haven't heard of voice control in this product, but I don't have one set up yet (still trying to buy the house), so I could be wrong.

3. run cat6 everywhere you want a tv with linuxmce on it. You'll need it.

4. You can't centralize their consoles and use them everywhere. That's impractical for several technical reasons (how would you change games? What is the range on the wireless game controllers? You might be able to hack something together in linuxmce to pipe the video from the console to the rooms, but that still would leave you unable to change games and control the game).


I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: emachala on January 31, 2010, 03:16:34 pm
Agree with Bill .. Also if your looking to only have plasmas of TV, Projectors, in an area and that's it for hardware... I ran an addition cat 6e  to each Tv... so that I could Send HDMI over Cat 5e 6e,  6e better  works superb for me, if you looking for a central hardware area room for gear... its the way  to go... works with all Av equipment also and Av hdmi switching receivers  ... Ive test almost ever model made .. and ive come to swear by  the "Atlona AT-HD-V40SRS"  You can even get one with a IR reapeter built in...

Mounting Md's behind or around TV's was not an option for me... And if you ever done wire installation you know pro-grade HDMI is a boat load over 30foot.... So HDMI over CAt6e was for me... I'm also sending everything over cat to devices behind tv locations... cat5 to get blue tooth and serial..., gc100's in areas,, etc... I put 2 cat6e and 2 cat5e behind each tv location to cover my bases for upgrades  all back to cat5e and cate63 patch panels



Are you looking to just send 5000$ on Linuxmce hardware... or whole home solution with hardware, receivers, speakers tv's?

5k might get you wired and prepped to setup with a core, freenas, couple MD's, webdt366's and all the trimming to get them going... then it would be replaceing zwave decora's and outlets as you go... get the Wayne dalton thermo's now...

Are you stiill running central cat through house? i would i really really would...

Cause, again like billypoints out with tv's you could blow 5k on speakers...

I have a layered network throughout my place with cat5e and 6e  just moved in last week.. still in setup... but got 2 65's playing 1080 flawlessly... over cat6e and my network gets response from 6e so much faster than 5e...  ... so im happy...




Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on January 31, 2010, 04:00:28 pm
You guy's are great, i appreicate your comments...truly due to the fact that my original intention was to utilizea wireless N dual band router for connection to the Media directors....I had considered Cat 6e, but due to hassle, in running the wires, figured i'd be able to escape this by utilizing wireless.  And to help paint the picture a bit better on my budget, this is without TV purchase or audio equipment(at this point at least) but strictly core, media directors, camera's, z-wave modules.  Also, after writing this, i realized i left one thing out, which is signal provider.  We currently have Cox for internet and TV, but we plan to go to Direct TV for TV and since we have the ability to utilize DOCSIS 3.0 we are able to get 20 to 24 megs of bandwith for internet speed at the house?  Im going shopping for Cat 6e today to see how this would fit, as that seems to be consensus on the best connection method.  As far as the orbiters, i've decided that the Web DT's kinda fit, at least 2 of them, and for my kids, im trying to find some type of lower end orbiter that would be simple enough for them to use...in fact, one of my questions is, is there anyway to "administrate" the orbiters; simplify them, so that they dont have as much functionality?  Now...my plan for the backyard.....your goign to love this....Basically, im going to have a custom BBQ Bar, where a 55 inch plasma will be housed out of a rising stand that can be rotated on this stand 360 degrees.  The enclosure is going to be custom as well, to protect it from the elements....Im using a less expensive TV due to my wife, saying im crazy, and it's one we've had for a while, so it's kind of already paid for itself.  And to this one, i knew it would have to be cat 5/6....
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: phenigma on February 01, 2010, 04:07:09 am
Your MDs must be wired.  Wireless MDs are not supported for many reasons so you willl need at least one cat5e to each MD location.  Your orbiters can all be wireless without problems.

J.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: billytwowilly on February 02, 2010, 06:49:43 am
emachala: can you elaborate a bit on the cat6 setup? I wasn't aware you could do that. It sounds pretty useful. So you don't have mediadirectors anywhere, you just have cat6 to the tv? Do you need media directors in a room somewhere in the house then? Can you use one beefy computer as a media director for lots of tvs using this method?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 02:27:46 pm
Okay, that makes since on the wiring...(im sold!)...the last few days I started pricing what it's going to take to run Cat 6e to each location and not as bad as i thought if i do the wiring myself.  Basically, since it's a pretty simple design on the house upstairs/downstairs the overall challenge to wiring is distance to router which seems a easy fix via a gigabit switch. 

Orbiters
I plan on buying two orbiter pads (WebDT 366) one for my wife and I and one for the downstairs family room.  And on the subject of Orbiters again, still looking to see if there is going to be one that even my 4 year old might be able to operate, so any suggestions there would help.

The Media Directors
There seems to be a very big choice in Media Directors out there.  Since this is going to be a new purchase as well, and from what i've been able to discern from your answers with this question and the forums, I've decided on about three prospective choices


1. Acer - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883103228 acer aspire revo 1600

2. Shuttle - http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4846705&SRCCODE=GOOGLEBASE&cm_mmc_o=VRqCjC7BBTkwCjCECjCE

Shuttle X27D X Mini Series Barebone PC

3. MSI Wind Nettop - 120 - 1 GB RAM - 1.6 GHz - 160 GB HDD

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&q=small+form+factor+pc&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=8627188364498619159&ei=1iZoS9iGIZD-NZPRvYYG&sa=X&oi=product_catalog_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CCIQ8wIwBA#ps-sellers

or the one, budget depending, i saw at the LinuxMCE store that's being offered.  The only thing holding me back on this was cost as i was trying to keep my cost per directore at about 200 dollars U.S.

Any other suggestions would be great?  What do all of you think of my choices? Has anyone had any experience with any of these units?

CORE

This component, does confuse me the most, as again i want something that stable, something robust that can handle at least two signal feeds, and something that's not going to be obsolete...my budget is basically about 1000 dollars for it.  Any suggestions on a off the shelf Core, or would i be better just building what i needed?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 03:03:58 pm
I may out of line here, but I noticed two things in your selections.  Only the first supports HDMI, the second has a DVI plug which can be converted to HDMI.  The thrid only has SVGA.  Also are all the TV's in your house HD? 
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 06:27:36 pm
The HDMI issue is exactly why i tried (hahah) to put my selections in order of usability, as i saw them....i guess my question on the MD's was based off of cost...first...and yes, all TV's can show a minimum of 720p even in the kids rooms right now.  We are buying only one other TV in the near future....and we've decided to splurge on something 60 inches or better ...and although not as popular, we are pretty much thinking plasma....

Now, ....sound....boy do i have questions....

What main receiver(s) should i be looking to get? As i want to have at least "full" system of some type in the master bedroom and the main family room?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 07:34:57 pm
This is where your choices start getting furry.  If you want true surround sound out of these PC's you really need something that is at least 4.1 capable, and better yet with an optical output on it.  Depending on your computer selection almost any surround sound system will work.  The only requirement is that your receiver have an input that will correspond with an output from your computer.  If your computer has a coaxial S/PDIF jack then your receiver should have one too.  A standard headphone jack on any computer can be converted into 2 RCA audio ports.  Some motherboards allow up to 10 channels out in this manner on their motherboard.  Of your selections the First is only capable of stero as far as I can tell.  The second looks like it can do 6 channel, and the last is probably the best at possibly 8 channels.  The MSI (last option) also does not remap the ports using a driver, which will make it more likely to work in a linux environment without the availability of a separate driver option.   I am looking into pricing a Media Director with the whole package, but it is proving time consuming.  I will post when I come up with something to be reviewed by the masses.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 08:38:35 pm
Forgot to mention the jacks and their order of preference. 

Currently the best audio option would be toslink or optical.  This uses fiber optics to transmit up to 7.2 channels of surround sound.  It may be capable of more, the last time I checked (which was several years ago) the output limit on most recordings was 7.2.
Coaxial would be the second best, tied with some broken out RCA jacks.  Coaxial uses the same S/PDIF transmission type as toslink or optical.  However, since it is an electronic based system it has more noise built into it.  Same channel capabilities, just more lossy.
Obviously the more channels the better, but most surround sound systems do not accept more than 2 channels in the standard RCA input.  However most computer based surround sound systems only accept either 1/8" stero jacks or RCA.  I would use Toslink or optical where possible.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 08:43:47 pm
thank you for all of that information....you have no idea how this helps.....

to me, it's sounding like my first choice is the box im looking for..for a few different reasons....

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 08:45:36 pm
are there any recommendations for sound processing OUTSIDE of the core?  for instance, like a main audio receiver?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 09:16:56 pm
When you say sound processing, are you looking for a way to get the surround sound into place after the Media director has handed off the 2 channel audio?  If that is the case, you will really only ever get true stero out of the system.  The audio is only as good as the weakest link in the chain.  If you are looking for recomendations on individual recievers, I'm too far out of the market to give good product knoladge there.

However I offer a second option for your media director.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121353  for motherboard
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116265  for proc
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161030  for memroy, though you only really need one stick
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154084  for case, though there are many many choices here.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136162  and Blueray player to polish it off.

The total here is 365.32 per unit, but you get a fully 1080p video on HDMI or DVI, the toslink cable, and a blueray player.  replace the blue ray with a standard DVD and you save about 70 bucks. 
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 09:46:46 pm
that is one heck of a rig, and now if i could talke my wife into a little more budget money....now lets talk about tuner cards, to accept Dish/Direct TV and cable connection....
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 10:45:28 pm
and...here we go....

VOIP...i truly do not understand the VOIP portion of this service.  I know what i would like, which is to be able to convert my phone service over to VOIP, and utilize the connection i have, with voip lines, with multiple numbers....basically 2 line for the house, one for home office....I want the system to manage the VOIP services, but not quite sure how im going to do this, and tie into my existing phone lines into my house or would it be better to use cordless phones? and the switching of the phone lines?...ahhah.... ???
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 11:04:18 pm
I was just thinking...How many of your TV's will have a full surround sound setup?  Certainly your kids won't have surround sound and subwoofers?  So you can go with a more serious rig for the tv's that need the additional power, and get the cheaper option for the tv's that don't need it.

Any card that can pick up analog cable will be able to view the feed directly from the cable boxes.  This isn't HD though.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116037
This card is a little pricey but sounds like one of the better cards.  It would work with two boxes at once.  It runs 130 with a little for shipping from newegg.  Hauppauge is definitely one of the more supported brands with linux.

Now I found this   http://www.blackmagic-design.com/products/intensity/techspecs/

HDMI input to computer.  Sounds great, but I have no clue if it will work with linux.  I figure it's partly compatible because there are MacOSx drivers, but still.  

The other option is to bypass the Media Director for HD only.  This means that you either need a tuner card in the PC's by the TV.  This means you couldn't use the tiny computers you suggested earlier for the locations that could view the satellite feed in HD.  You would still be able to use all your LinuxMCE functions except time slip and record in HD.  The other functions would work.  

God this stuff gets fun doesn't it!
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 11:24:37 pm
ahhah..you dont know my kids, they had full surround sound 5 years ago...hahah...man, doesnt' it make you want to be a kid again..????

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 02, 2010, 11:29:45 pm
but there is a saving grace, in that whatever i invest is going to be working there long after they are gone, the Hauppauge card interests me, ...and that's a question is it a card at all?, as when i wen to my local fry's electronics, all i saw were modules that sat outside the case.....??? is this the same devices?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 11:31:11 pm
VOIP.   WOW  ok here comes the can of goodness.

The asterisk system is capable of accepting and dispatching phone calls in many many different ways.  
When you say "VOIP" (Voice over Internet Protocol) you are talking about a specific carrier set that does not require any additional hardware on the asterisk system.  Voip providers will hand off either as a SIP service or an IAX2 service.  IAX2 is a little better for bulk call drop off, like say, between two offices with 20+ concurrent calls on each station.  In your case, it doesn't matter.  Just accept it.  I have my service through VIATALK http://www.viatalk.com/ who run something like 100 year for one phone number and "unlimited" phone calling.  (Your actually limited to something like 4000 a month or something.  Fine print is fun)  They work wonderfully with asterisk systems.

The other option is that you can get FXO cards (Read here about FXO vs FXO http://www.3cx.com/PBX/FXS-FXO.html) , preferably from digium as they are the best supported on the asterisk system http://www.digium.com/en/.  This means you use your standard every day phone from Ma Bell and the system routes it however you program it too.

You can then dispatch your calls in many creative ways.  You can use FXS cards to deliver your phone calls to standard phones.  When you think about an FXS line, imagine it like a phone line coming in from your phone provider.  You can run many phones off it, but you can only place one call at a time.  If you got 3 standard phones and plugged them into 1 FXS port, you could listen on each phone to the same conversation, but only have one phone call per FXS port.  If you had 3 FXS ports and each phone plugged into eachother, they all are treated like their own phone line.  You could call your kitchen phone from your office phone and your kitchen phone would ring like an outside caller was ringing in.  

Another option is to have IP phones.  IP phones can either be soft or hard.  I belive the phone system will turn your Media Directors into soft phones.  Soft phones are phones that are not stand alone dedicated phones.  They are software running on multipurpose hard ware.  So all your computers can be registered as soft phones.  Hard phones are IP phones, like this phone  
http://www.amazon.com/Soundpoint-IP-331-SIP-New/dp/B002Y37QOY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1265149510&sr=1-2.
This phone would plug into your network like any computer, and speak to the server through this means and would not require additional cards.

As far as routing your calls are concerned, the sky is literally the limit.  The asterisk system is capable of handling voice mail, transfering calls from phone to phone, and would meld all your incoming lines.  For instance, you have 2 personal phone lines and 1 business line.  If a phone call enters your business line the system can bring on an automated attendant stating that they have reached whatever business you run and to hold just a moment while they find someone to help them.  Then it can ring your office phone, then the rest of the phones in your house if you choose, or if you have outgoing lines available, your cell phone.  The same can happen with your personal lines.  You get to choose what phone lines are associated with what phones, and how they ring.  The setup can get complex, at least for me but that is because I choose to edit the conf files by hand, but the possibilities are truly endless.  I do not know what LinuxMCE does as far as ease of setup.

Sorry for the long response.  I am used to glazed looks and rushes for Tylenol after my explanations of this topic.  Please let me know if you need something clarified.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 02, 2010, 11:33:41 pm
They have both modals that sit outside of the case as well as internal cards.  I find that internal cards are more reliable and cheaper, but you can go with whatever system suits you best.  just remember, USB is plug and play.  This means that your cat can unplug your usb tuner while your recording your favorite show without you knowing.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 12:15:32 am
your turning into a Godsend of information....thank you as your hitting each subject that i have the  ??? look on my face about....one question, earlier, i was mentioning that  I planned on using the WebDT orbiter, that seems to have speaker/microphone capability? do you think that I could utilize this as a telephony device, ....

you rock by the way Mr.E...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 03, 2010, 12:57:13 am
Quote
I planned on using the WebDT orbiter, that seems to have speaker/microphone capability? do you think that I could utilize this as a telephony device, ....

No not at this time.

The best MD phone solution is a Solo USB mic .

Not to take away anything from "MR Rock"
LinuxMce has tight integration with Asterisks and it has its own features and functionality that will not handle separate business lines etc without custom configuration. That may or may not break LMCE functionality.

Some great Ideas here but some seem to be made without a whole lot Lmce experience.

Also adding a Blu-Ray drive with a LMCE is kind of waste  blu-ray under Linux is very new shaky at best) and is not integrated into lmce.

Not that they cant be done "We gladly accept Patches" just don't want your expectations to get off base.


Tim

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 03, 2010, 01:05:38 am
Wow didn't realize how bad the problem was.


Please don't buy new hardware with anything other than nvidia video for Lmce .....
If your stuck with it that's one thing but please don't buy new Intel or ATI video based computers

The msi wind uses intel gma as well as one of the mobos suggested.

Please chk User:setups for known working hardware.

The ion based ATOM's are the way to go

Sorry to be blunt.


Tim

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 01:26:14 am
you Double Rock...

and that is what I've been picking up, that it seems my first choice on the MD's is the way to go, and I did have the question about the gma intel video if it would work..

I haven't bought equipment ...other than TV's at this point...this is a completely organic install....any suggestions, in other words, if you were doing it, what would you do...and i've been getting some great suggestions here....and much insight...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 01:37:19 am
and on blue ray im not the concerned at the moment, as again, my objectives are to build the system and use it to distribute video/web/telephone/home automation/security ..and add components as it becomes available...i would like it to be stable...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 01:41:13 am
Oh, and by the way, Im intiating all of this, from purchase to install in about 30 to 45 days.  I plan to detail, via video tape, and blog, every step along the way..i figure if i can do it, then ANYONE can do it...and want to show the successes and mistakes along the way....should be valuable to all of us out here, who really love the Idea, but dont quite know how to get it done...can't wait to get to the point where i have some more challenging questions...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 03, 2010, 02:15:30 am
There have been some very good Ideas in this thread.

A few Mandates/ Highly recommended from my point of view.

1. Quiet Power efficient Ion/Atom based units for MD's
2. Plus 80 power supplies for any other PC in the house.
3. NAS based storage.
4. Network Based Tuner (Hdhomerun)
5. RS232 controlled A/V equipment.
6. Web DT for control
7. Zwave Lighting/Climate
 
A short list for now I will add to it if I think of something else.

feel free to stop by  IRC #linuxmce
many of us are there to help and discuss various options

Tim
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 03, 2010, 01:06:55 pm
Quote
I planned on using the WebDT orbiter, that seems to have speaker/microphone capability? do you think that I could utilize this as a telephony device, ....

No not at this time.

The best MD phone solution is a Solo USB mic .

Not to take away anything from "MR Rock"
LinuxMce has tight integration with Asterisks and it has its own features and functionality that will not handle separate business lines etc without custom configuration. That may or may not break LinuxMCE functionality.

Some great Ideas here but some seem to be made without a whole lot Lmce experience.

Also adding a Blu-Ray drive with a LinuxMCE is kind of waste  blu-ray under Linux is very new shaky at best) and is not integrated into lmce.

Not that they cant be done "We gladly accept Patches" just don't want your expectations to get off base.


Tim



Thank you for correcting me Tim.  You are correct that I do not have a lot of LinuxMCE experience. 

Question though since I do have a fair amount of asterisk experience.  You said you can not integrate business lines.  It is my understanding that the UI allows you to configure multiple phone lines under linuxMCE and select which phones to ring.  How is that different from configuring a business line?  This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be combative.

Also I have never had a problem with linux and an Intel chipset.  Every intel GMA based mobo I have used has worked all but perfectly out of the box, and all sources I can find have not complained of intel compatibility.  Is this something specific to LinuxMCE or is this a specific chipset you are referring to? 

I wholly agree about the ATI cards.  Support for them is flakey at best.  I have configured ATI cards to work in linux, however I would not wish that on my worst enemies. 

Again thank you for bringing some LinuxMCE experience to the table.  I have done a few installs of LinuxMCE on under powered test environments and am working towards a whole house system in the next 30-60 days.  I have extensive experience with Linux, Asterisk and home theater systems as well that I am cobbling information together from.  Just sharing what little knowledge I have.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 02:19:07 pm
You guy's are great, and I plan to stop buy that Forum before the initial purchase which hopefully will take place this weekend....I'm even taking off of work for a week just to do the wiring of the house.  And I may have skipped something, as I want to build a bullet proof Core, that can handle all of this.  I do have a bit of a budget surplus just for this. Are there any specific reccomendations?

And Tim you mentioned something, that was on my mind as well; NAS storage.  I've been thinking that this might be the way to go for various reasons, mostly that one stability is reached in the system, I dont want to have to "crack" a case in order to add more storage...as primarily im using the Core for this. So would it be better right from the beginning to simply setup a NAS storage system, that i can simply add a terabyte drive as needed for movies, files, music..etc along the way?

My next source of ignorance, is the Z-wave Modules.  With the house being the size it is, I know this can well eat up my entire budget, but at this point, and from what you've taught me, im willing to only do the downstairs portion of zones first, and wait to add modules upstairs as more funds become available.  What I dont understand though, is how specifically it integrates with LinuxMCE.  Is it all controlled off the orbiter, and are there things i should be looking out for?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 03, 2010, 03:26:55 pm
I don't understand what the advantage of the network based tuners is.  As I understand it the linuxMCE system automatically shares video feeds from various sources, so having an internal card in your Core would share that feed throughout the house already. 

A lot can be said for needed to crack a case to add storage.  I would recommend a NAS as opposed to storage on the Core, but almost all the Intel bridge chipsets support hot-swappable SATA ports.  Drop a basic linux install on it and run MDADM and you have a larger, very VERY robust NAS system that you can even integrate your windows boxes with.  The price for 2tb of storage in this manner is about 455, with about 200 of that coming from 2 2tb storage drives.  Be careful with your selection of hard drives.  The Seagate tb drives have had some major issues lately.

I would also like to note that the hardware I listed earlier has been reviewed on newegg as working with MythTV.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: Schmich on February 03, 2010, 03:37:35 pm
Having all your MDs centralized works and is neat but I like having them in the rooms so that they can be used to boot Windows as well. Also you can attach a CD/DVD drive and just pop things in to play. Not that I have this but I can also assume that follow me works well so you can have the bluetooth dongles on each one of them.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 03, 2010, 03:51:19 pm
Having all your MDs centralized works and is neat but I like having them in the rooms so that they can be used to boot Windows as well. Also you can attach a CD/DVD drive and just pop things in to play. Not that I have this but I can also assume that follow me works well so you can have the bluetooth dongles on each one of them.

schmich, I agree about having your media directors by the tv's.  So many advantages.  However I was commenting on removing the tuner from the core and placing it as a network device.  That concept seems very expensive and with little real advantage.  I would like to be proved wrong though.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 03, 2010, 04:35:23 pm
Quote
You said you can not integrate business lines.  It is my understanding that the UI allows you to configure multiple phone lines under linuxMCE and select which phones to ring.  How is that different from configuring a business line?
Currently a second line requires manual intervention
See Wizard-->Devices-->phone-lines
"To learn about how to add more than 1 phone line, or to add a voice over ip provider that's not on the list, click here."
Quote
Question though since I do have a fair amount of asterisk experience.
We gladly accept patches.

Quote
I don't understand what the advantage of the network based tuners is.  As I understand it the linuxMCE system automatically shares video feeds from various sources, so having an internal card in your Core would share that feed throughout the house already.

Certainly not required but gives two tuners great picture and no slots or cpu cycles on the core (Enabling the use of an ATOM box as a core)
Quote
Also I have never had a problem with linux and an Intel chipset.  Every intel GMA based mobo I have used has worked all but perfectly out of the box, and all sources I can find have not complained of intel compatibility. Is this something specific to LinuxMCE or is this a specific chipset you are referring to?
Yes its specific to the Lmce UI2

In addition the ION based units support video acceleration without it ATOM based fail miserably with HD video.

Quote
What I dont understand though, is how specifically it integrates with LinuxMCE.  Is it all controlled off the orbiter,
Basically yes but depending on the MFG for instance (Very Expensive but very nice)  Vizia Rf from leviton has Scene and Zone controllers which are very handy at the foyer to hit an all light out button.  But lmce has various ways of handling this as well. Including timed events and blue-tooth detection/ drop.


Tim


Tim








Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 03, 2010, 07:42:33 pm
Quote
Yes its specific to the Lmce UI2

In addition the ION based units support video acceleration without it ATOM based fail miserably with HD video.

Thanks for that reminder.  UI2 is where the issue would lie.  I am pretty leary about sticking a ATOM230 or 330 proc on the core though.  Considering high enocoding loads would have to kill that proc pretty quick.  I guess you are trying to solve that with your homerun boxes, but you would probably get a better bang for your buck by putting a good proc and some good encoding cards into your core.  That will also fix some network latency problems and take strain off your NIC. 

Quote
We gladly accept patches.

One of my goals is to have a test lab setup and start assisting the open source community in a much more hands on way.  Currently I only get to dabble in open source stuff because I work in IT and am dealing with these products at work.  One day soon.

In another post you made mention that the NAS needs to be on the client side network of the Core, and not on the greater internet side.  This seems pretty counter productive.  Could you elaborate why the NAS needs to be client to the core?  I know there are likely several ways to fix this,  but since you seem to already have encountered some of these problems I would love your insight into why you solved the problem by moving the NAS.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 03, 2010, 08:09:36 pm
Quote
In another post you made mention that the NAS needs to be on the client side network of the Core, and not on the greater internet side.  This seems pretty counter productive.  Could you elaborate why the NAS needs to be client to the core?  I know there are likely several ways to fix this,  but since you seem to already have encountered some of these problems I would love your insight into why you solved the problem by moving the NAS.

Lmce uses DHCP on the internal net to provide Plug-n-Play functionality.
You can put some devices on the external net but its not advised and wont be plug-n-play.
Some devices such as Cisco phones and the webdt will not work at all when connected to the external net of lmce.
Actually there are  still some features hard coded to the internal 192.168.80 network.


Tim
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: dlewis on February 03, 2010, 08:42:10 pm
And I'd recommend the Cisco 7970 for you phones...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 03, 2010, 08:56:27 pm
I've heard/seen the cisco's  mentioned in the post's repeatedly, is there any particular advantage to these phones versus others?  Ive read a bit that it's because they are able to be Orbiters as well..is this the only reason?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: epsolon77 on February 03, 2010, 08:59:02 pm
I know that cisco model is among the 5 easiest phones to configure with asterisk.  No argument that it is a nice phone.  With the price tag approaching 300 per phone I think I will find an alternate phone though.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: dlewis on February 03, 2010, 09:06:44 pm
Yes, the price is steep... However it's PnP and has orbiter right on the phone (which isn't a feature to just brush over).
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: Schmich on February 03, 2010, 11:07:37 pm
however I was commenting on removing the tuner from the core
sorry wasn't targeting you :p meant in general
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 04, 2010, 01:36:40 am
i could probably justify this expense in this phone in one location ..possibly two, if my wife agrees...(she is reading this gentlemen/ladies so please justify it for me) but Im thinking more in the lines of some type of phone system that is workable around the house....something more domestic.....
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 04, 2010, 03:29:56 am
Attach Phoenix Solo USB microphones to each media director. Done.

You get a speaker phone setup that can encompass a room, with the added benefit of being completely integrated into the system. Media pauses when the phone is answered, and resumes when the phone is hung up.

See my phone system demonstration for details:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gNaWUM4bX3I <-- part 1, using a touch pad orbiter
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dUE9_s6EnI <-- part 2, using the on screen orbiter and a remote.

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 05, 2010, 06:15:32 pm
Well this weekend is my week, and Im making my initial purchases to run Cat 6E...will take pictures....
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: Tred on February 05, 2010, 06:21:19 pm
As for the gaming, I had the same thought, if you want an explanation
http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9561.0
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 05, 2010, 07:59:32 pm
I guess i'd like to see it even delay, as to me that's a transfer issue....in other words, if the commands are at least recognized, albeit slowly....as to me, it sounds as if that is the challenge, in finding something that will transfer the commands from the remotes fast enough to be effective to the games...maybe im wrong in this
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 08, 2010, 02:55:55 am
okay..so just came back from my local electronics store, and i have a really big question, can i utilize a Playstation 3 or Xbox 360 as Media Director...instead of the computer?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 08, 2010, 03:00:11 am
we do provide a upnp server for allowing those devices to display media present on the linuxmce network. we will be replacing it with rewritten code to improve media integration and better transcoding support...

you will not have access to orbiter functions on these devices, directly, and thus, this is currently a very bad idea.

-thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 08, 2010, 03:09:40 am
my thought process is, that for my kids to play networked games ...i would assume the same thing for a Wii at this point....and in a way, that might be a solution, as much of what they do is gaming and movie watching anyway...I guess where im going with this is that their ACTUAL use, at this point is limited to watching movies, and gaming, and if they were going to be able to simply pull up a list of available movies that were prerecorded, it would make sense.  I bought 1000 feet of Cat6, along with term plates, connectors, test kit...scheduled tomorrow to do the upstairs wiring....this is fun...in a way...i really want it to work, as im very interested in how it will all come together....i will make decision on the media directors this coming weekend...My next big question will be regarding a functional audio receiver for my man family room.  I have a 82 inch mitsubishi tv, that shows great, but I want to increase the surround sound there in the room.  Nothing to expensive, but everything i see in the stores nowadays that has a rs232 connection seems to 700 or above, are there any suggestions?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 08, 2010, 03:15:30 am
we have device templates for Sharp Aquos TVs that have RS232, as well as Olevia TVs with an RS232.. If you find another TV with RS232 capability, a device template can be created for it to allow control.

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: Schmich on February 08, 2010, 03:11:23 pm
Are you still thinking about having the Wii centralized somewhere? If so, can you explain how what your idea is for the controllers and the infrared bar sensor? I'm quite curious for eyeing future possibilites in my home =)

I understand though that the video feed can be attached to a matrix output so there is no need of any capture card and its added latency.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 08, 2010, 03:28:19 pm
well, as i said, not quite sure how to deal with the latency there...but luckily my wife and kids give me access to a lot of really smart people...gotta love college students...hahah...so im going to see if they can come up with some way around the latency issue...i have no clue at this point...today we are wiring the cat 6 in the upstairs of the house
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 08, 2010, 03:30:53 pm
trust me, if you WERE to do something like that, you would need to wire up an HDMI to CAT-6 matrix, on separate trunking from the rest of your network. It's the only way you can realistically pull it off. A few of us, (including Totallymaxed, Schmich and I) speak from experience.

Uplink at Dianemo wrote a completely custom media plugin to handle this for their commercial fork of LinuxMCE.

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 10, 2010, 02:17:59 pm
Okay so the wiring went okay...not perfect, but relatively easy due to the crawl space....some minor details, and some crimps im going to do over this weekend, now going to do the downstairs.  And not to break subject, but im back at what type of core to build, or buy, as that will be coming first...I've looked at a few pre-packaged boxes, but there always seems to be something lacking.  The core will be housed in a closet in the middle of the house, and truly just be a dedicated slave box to serve the MD's., so im not so prone to buy the best video card for it, im more concerned with it's ability to serve all the functions of LinuxMCE at this point.  And im taking the advice and looking to setup NAS for media storage and keep this out of the Core completely.  I know there is a push at this point to make a clean core install and i've been taking notes from the forum on what to watch out with the first installation, and for my purposes, it seems like once I get to that point that the DVD install will work fine, as there will be nothing on the harddrive.  My question is, based off of just these parameters, are there any suggestions for a "off the shelf" box that i can use as a core?  Everything i see that has a i-7 chip, seems to over the top in other areas (graphics card, sound...etc.)?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: B34N on February 10, 2010, 06:06:25 pm
And not to break subject, but im back at what type of core to build, or buy, as that will be coming first...I've looked at a few pre-packaged boxes, but there always seems to be something lacking.  The core will be housed in a closet in the middle of the house, and truly just be a dedicated slave box to serve the MD's., so im not so prone to buy the best video card for it, im more concerned with it's ability to serve all the functions of LinuxMCE at this point.  And im taking the advice and looking to setup NAS for media storage and keep this out of the Core completely.  I know there is a push at this point to make a clean core install and i've been taking notes from the forum on what to watch out with the first installation, and for my purposes, it seems like once I get to that point that the DVD install will work fine, as there will be nothing on the harddrive.  My question is, based off of just these parameters, are there any suggestions for a "off the shelf" box that i can use as a core?  Everything i see that has a i-7 chip, seems to over the top in other areas (graphics card, sound...etc.)?

I have been following your progress and I'm also at the point of deciding what type of dedicated core to build so I am curious to see the recommendations.  I have not yet decided if I will do a NAS.  Won't that increase the cost rather significantly?  I'm also toying with rack-mounting as much as possible (core, switch, UPS, power strip, patch panel, multi channel amplifier).  It would make the setup extremely clean but it would also significantly increase cost.  It looks like I'm on a slippery slope.  I started out planning on just using an old PC as a core.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 11, 2010, 01:13:54 am
Part of the reason I decided to go with a NAS setup is that i read in Forums that this would decrease processing server load overall, and since im trying to run all facets of the system, it seemed logical to start off right and devote as much of that processing power to managing the various systems it will be running.  That was the primary reason, and yes your right it's getting rather expensive fairly quickly.  But this is going to be a permanent addition to the house, with the youngest member of the house being 4 years old.  So my thinking is that i will be adding media for years, and i'd rather be able to drop down to my local electronics store, and pick up a terabyte or two to expand the library, but simply adding a device than having to add hard disk space to the core.  There are individuals i know who will copy the movies they have so that i can add media fairly quickly and get the library up much faster, and that was primary consideration as well
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: B34N on February 11, 2010, 11:06:25 pm
Part of the reason I decided to go with a NAS setup is that i read in Forums that this would decrease processing server load overall, and since im trying to run all facets of the system, it seemed logical to start off right and devote as much of that processing power to managing the various systems it will be running. 

NAS does make sense. Would one be better off to build an atom machine and run FreeNAS (or some other Free Linux-based NAS software) instead of buying a turnkey product? What issues would one have in adding NAS after the initial setup?

What have you decided on for your core box? What about for tuner cards?  I have a Kworld 115 (internal) and a Happauge 950q (USB) already working on my exiting Myth box and I would hope to be able to use the same cards on my LinuxMCE core.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread but since we are in similar phases of the setup process, this may be a good place for me to ask a question.  One of the features that I would like to make use of is whole house audio with my music library and online music (Pandora) as the sources. I won't have media directors in the rooms where I will have wall and ceiling speakers. Could the core machine serve that content or is there a better option? If I have a multichannel amplifier in my closet with my core, could I avoid the need for in-wall volume controls?

Thank you!
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 13, 2010, 02:42:30 pm
Im really trying to wait on recommendations, if any regarding the core...and I've been wondering as well on the music component.  Hadn't really considered it.  I guess it would be a good thing to hear from anyone who's actually got an entire system running on what can be expected.  As far as tuner cards, still unsure.  This weekend im finishing off my wiring, so should be very interesting as I will get started with the actual components next weekend.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 13, 2010, 04:02:14 pm
I'm going to be VERY honest with you, tridum...

You are taking the wrong approach to this system.

What you SHOULD have done, is start with a small test environment, and systematically test outward, doing research and interacting with the commuity at large, so that you can adequately understand that this system is constantly being developed, and that some aspects of the system do require more work than others...

But you are setting yourself up with the expectations of approaching a _VERY_ large system, all at once...and honestly, expecting all of us to just give you the correct info the first time out...

This is a recipe for failure.

I know that you have been watching the forums, trying to gather info.. but please understand, that you're LITERALLY going head first into a system with a huge scope, and you will need to adjust to issues as they arise (and there are a lot of them).

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: B34N on February 13, 2010, 04:32:12 pm
What you SHOULD have done, is start with a small test environment, and systematically test outward, doing research and interacting with the commuity at large, so that you can adequately understand that this system is constantly being developed, and that some aspects of the system do require more work than others...

So you are advocating an approach to build a core without too many extra features and get that up and running while one learns the ins and outs or LinuxMCE?  Since the MDs don't need too much power and can netboot, an old computer or two might meet the needs while going through the learning curve.  After a learning by making mistakes and probably multiple reinstalls, that one would be better educated to make informed decisions on what extras they should add and how to add them.  Is it fairly straightforward to expand to making use of things such as VOIP, NAS and security system or is it more likely that with each addition that a fresh install would be the norm?  My experience with MythTV is that it took me multiple reinstalls until I got the system up and running the way that I liked it.  Since MythTV is only one part of MCE, is it safe to assume that I will likely have the same experiences with MCE?

Isn't it safe to say that wiring the house while in construction was a good decision no matter what? Also, using Zwave switches at the onset should be fine too since it's only an incremental cost and could be used with a standard controller until they get the Zwave network up and running with MCE?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 13, 2010, 04:34:04 pm
The internal wiring of the house WAS a good idea, no doubt.

Just be aware that there are a lot of moving parts, an that if you're doing your first attempt with EVERYTHING in the house, it will be a bit confusing to those not accustomed to the system, already.

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 14, 2010, 04:52:22 pm
Well Thom...

I really appreciate your comments, instruction, and tips much more than you know.  And yes, i've been attempting to monitor every issue discussed in the Forum.  And maybe I haven't been quite clear in my approach, or at least not communicating it well.  I can be very guilty of that...just ask my wife!  Hahah.

My objective, although i may have not been saying this, has been to take WHAT WORKS, by majority opinion, or at least by veterans like yourself, and apply that to my situation, based off of the parameters of my budget and objective.  I do have a ulterior motive here; but more on that later.

My objecitve here, is to learn, and apply a STABLE, AFFORDABLE, SYSTEM that is able to be scaled up or down as needs and or budgets permit.  Mostly, because from what this particular situation allows is a way to experiment...mostly ...where it only affects me and my family.  And if nothing else, we are first adopters.  So, as ignorant as I am of this wonderful system, im not coming into it with blinders on. I expect there to be wonderful challenges, that will require many silly questions from me, on how to resolve them.  Let me put it to you like this, the first computer I owned had a casette tape as a hard drive and said TRS-80 on it....and it was a wonderful discovery to be talking to people on something called bulletin board services...!!!

So...after all that..hahaha...my other motive, as mentioned earlier, is that I own a 3 phase housing development right outside of New Orleans, that I've been working on for several years.  It's small in comparison to many around it, but we have yet to build homes.  Within in 3 years though we will have completed construction on about 75% of the homes (110 homes). Well at least we hope so, if the economy steadily improves....  I have only one partner in this, and so we are truly very flexible in what we do, and how we do it.....

So in my head, i'd love to experience linuxmce's growing pains...as i'd love to get it to the point to deploy it in every home we plan to build as a add.

When i first started this thread, i asked general questions, after reading he linuxmce site.  And in this thread, I've asked the same types of questions; mostly general in nature.  So why you may, as other's probably feel, that my questions or even my objectives are juvenille or the scale to big, or my expectations of the system to mainstream, let me assure you, when you lived life as i have and seen 6k of storage be a 1000 dollar investment to what we have today, I truly do not. 

All have responded have taught me something.  And i really appreciate your time and input.  I hope you continue to share what you know with me.

P.S. every home we build will be compliant with cat 6e....hahah....



Now, that being said...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 17, 2010, 02:16:36 pm
so im wired, if nothing else...and wonderfully happy with result...all in all it wasn't that bad, the difficulty was in transferring all my connections from 1st floor to 2nd floor...was pretty easy just tedious.  I purchased one of my proposed MD's over the weekend, a Acer small form factor, and im chomping at the bit to truly get this going...but now, the hard part comes in deciding on a Core.  There haven't been to many direct recommendations....so im going to stick with the basics i've been able to read about here in the forums.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tschak909 on February 17, 2010, 02:19:12 pm
as an aside...

the FIRST computer I had, was a TRS-80 Model I, with Percom disks.
the SECOND computer I had, was an Atari 800.

I've been around, too.

:)

-Thom
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: B34N on February 17, 2010, 02:40:19 pm
...but now, the hard part comes in deciding on a Core.  There haven't been to many direct recommendations....so im going to stick with the basics i've been able to read about here in the forums.

As previously mentioned, I'm pretty much at the same stage with my system. The core is also my next step. How much power should a core have? What factors are most important? My head starts st spinning when trying to decide between processors. There are just so many different types of processors out there I don't know which one is best.  If using http://www.cpubenchmark.net is there minimum and recommended CPU score that one should consider? Is there a score that above which makes no meaningful impact in the core's performance?

As I mentioned in a previous post, my core will likely serve the whole house audio mostly from Pandora.com. Is there a suggested option to use something other than the core to do that? The rooms which will have in-wall and in-ceilings speakers will not have MDs in them.  I'm also trying to decide if my core will also serve video to a nearby TV or if I will get a separate MD.  Likely I will use it as a hybrid initially and as my system expands I will offload other tasks using a MD and a NAS.

Suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: JohnEdwards on February 17, 2010, 06:29:49 pm
This is where your choices start getting furry.  If you want true surround sound out of these PC's you really need something that is at least 4.1 capable, and better yet with an optical output on it.  Depending on your computer selection almost any surround sound system will work.  The only requirement is that your receiver have an input that will correspond with an output from your computer.  If your computer has a coaxial S/PDIF jack then your receiver should have one too.  A standard headphone jack on any computer can be converted into 2 RCA audio ports.  Some motherboards allow up to 10 channels out in this manner on their motherboard.  Of your selections the First is only capable of stero as far as I can tell.  The second looks like it can do 6 channel, and the last is probably the best at possibly 8 channels.  The MSI (last option) also does not remap the ports using a driver, which will make it more likely to work in a linux environment without the availability of a separate driver option.   I am looking into pricing a Media Director with the whole package, but it is proving time consuming.  I will post when I come up with something to be reviewed by the masses.

Is there anyway to get the audio to travel through hdmi?  What are the limitations in audio quality through hdmi (if that's even possible)?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 17, 2010, 10:14:04 pm
hahaha..Thom your a hoot...gotta love it...you win the Ego pop...(what ya dont know is you had "won" already cause your system works and im trying to learn to make mine now)....my point in saying my long time tenure is that i expect problems...i really do, i also expect to work through them and reach the objective.  Stable, functional, affordable system. 

And btw, you REALLY  were better than me, cause "ownership" to me, was limited to how man hours i was willing to sweep the floor and restock miss labled resistors in the little wire bins at the local shack...then i could play to my hearts content on space invaders!....

SO NOW!....hhhaha...what about my core...okay, lets up the ante...if ya had 3k to spend on a core, what would you get..to run all functions of the system? 
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 17, 2010, 11:19:50 pm
Quote
3k to spend on a core
:o

Wow 3k for something an ATOM core can handle.....
The heavy lifting is done with Media directors, and now mostly handed off to the gpu on the media directors, if you run VDPAU. (Nvidia accelerated drivers.)


But If you want to spend 3k on a core
PM me I am sure we could work something out ;D


Tim

Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 18, 2010, 02:56:25 pm
Now we are talking Thom....your so suave!  Educate my ignorance out of me!

When reading the overall understanding of how the system works, my interpretation is that the core ends up doing most of the processing. And from what your saying, (at least regarding the video component of this) it's the MD's which are doing it.  And by the way,  the 3k is theoretical on a "if i had to..." as it seems through all the various individuals who have listed what they are using, there is no consensus on what core to build/buy.

My other question, is yes, it seems at a minimum you can run a Atom, for the main component of Linuxmce, but my real question is, what about the other components of the system which I want to implement? (security, phone, audio, gaming...etc)

And yes you've already chastised me on over reaching my expectations, but im not refrencing right now that all components work without flaw...on first boot, im talking say in the future as the system becomes more refined.  My point being is i'd like to spend on the core what's needed to support all functions that  the system is capable of handling.  And that is the recommendation im after....
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: B34N on February 18, 2010, 04:11:38 pm
Quote
3k to spend on a core

Wow 3k for something an ATOM core can handle.....
The heavy lifting is done with Media directors, and now mostly handed off to the gpu on the media directors, if you run VDPAU. (Nvidia accelerated drivers.)

So you are saying that an Atom is more than enough for a core?  Newegg is selling http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&ItemList=Combo.343643 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?nm_mc=AFC-SlickDeals&cm_mmc=AFC-SlickDeals-_-NA-_-NA-_-NA&ItemList=Combo.343643) for $179 including shipping today.  If this is enough power then I guess my only concern is that I would need external tuners since the single slot would be used up by the 2nd NIC. Or is there a mini PCI-e NIC available that would be supported?

How big of a HD should I have for the OS? I have an old mini PCI-E SSD that I'm guessing could be installed in place of the wireless nic that the MB comes with and then I could have the OS on the SSD and keep all media on a large HD.  Would this make sense?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tkmedia on February 18, 2010, 07:01:19 pm
Quote
My other question, is yes, it seems at a minimum you can run a Atom, for the main component of Linuxmce, but my real question is, what about the other components of the system which I want to implement? (security, phone, audio, gaming...etc)


For several months now I have been running all aspects of lmce off my atom 330
I have 5 media directors off of it but usually not more than 3 playing media at any given time.
The major issue i found is that it takes like 15 minutes per MD to regen the orbiters.

So I say try it ... worse case move it to the edge as a MD if you don't feel its up to the task.


Tim
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 18, 2010, 07:36:51 pm
that's a wonderful idea, in fact I am going to try it...like that and save my 3k...as i would like to see exactly what it does if it lags like that...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: bbnd on February 22, 2010, 05:58:20 pm
Tridum, earlier you posted that you would be taking pictures of the install. Have you done that? Are they available anywhere for public viewing? If you need some storage space, I would be happy to make a public album for you on my website.

don
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 23, 2010, 12:23:10 am
alas, didn't do it for the wiring, as i figured that was a bit too mundane, but will be doing it as i place all the MD's as well as the core...i saw the video's on Utube of tom and that's kinda my objective; to archive what happens as i go through this install...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: bbnd on February 23, 2010, 03:37:28 am
Have the builders drywalled/plastered yet? Just as a CYA I take still pictures and video at the end of each day as a contractor works (or several times a day if I can get away from work). You ought to see the look on their face when there is a discrepancy and you lay the photos/video on them.

Also, in  new build, video/pics are GREAT documentation of where stuff in the walls (pipes, wire etc) is running. You might have a blueprint but you can't believe how many times I have seen a subcontractor make a change on the fly to save a few bucks or minutes.

don
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: tridum on February 23, 2010, 02:31:47 pm
Oh boy Don can we talk....!

Although the house we are currently in is already constructed, and the wiring I did was on my own with a help of a friend, i understand completely, as that is my side business from a Developers end.  I've developed about 8 homes in the past, and yes as a general rule, a sub will deviate from plan as often as he can.  We live in Arizona, which basically means that we are slave to many building codes that dont quite apply anywhere else in the country.  We have no natural structure altering forces (save 110 degree heat) so plan deviation is quite common here.

As stated earlier, im very interested in this project not only for myself, but for my latest project which is a multi-home dwelling in the Louisiana.  Down there, up until a year or so after Hurricane Katrina, in most Parishes, there was no requirement to seek a building permit to construct a single family home.  So a sub could do pretty much as he wanted.  This has led over the years to some very shoddy, and dangerous construction.

The competitive advantage that my partner and I have over most developers in the area, is that we tend to be on the cutting edge in interior amenities, with keeping a eye on uniformity of exterior design.  We've tended to stick with subs we know, and for this project (our biggest so far), and due to the economy slow down we've had to slow down the pace in which we move the project along.

Life there is a bit slower.  But what I've found, is that kids tend to move technology due to their need to participate with other kids.  What truly interests me about Linuxmce, is the possibility of being able to offer a family that we are selling too, an opportunity to have system that works and encompasses exactly what Linuxmce offers; media, security, phone. 

I've already been digitally "spanked" about believing this to be to theortical, and i realize fully that it wont be for everyone.  But I really do look at it and say "...well...gee...when constructing for homeowners now, we offer toilets that range from 150 dollars to 900 dollars...so why not this?"  Im a pretty positive guy, and believe that ultimately most things technical have a solution.

So, im kinda experimenting on myself.
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: red_techie on September 05, 2010, 03:45:40 am
What's the status on this?
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: joerod on September 05, 2010, 04:53:56 am
Yea, I just read the entire thread to find out noone has posted since Feb 23rd.  Where are the pictures, where is the hardward and the final costs? I was expecting alot...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: ggmce on September 22, 2010, 04:13:14 am
I'd love to hear how this all turned out, I too am at the point of deciding on Hybrid/Core, I got my gigabit switch a couple of IP cameras, and an ASUS EEE box as future MD, your experience would be very much appreciated here...
Title: Re: Brand New Home...Brand New Installation 5k (US) Budget
Post by: valent on September 25, 2010, 01:08:50 pm
Your answers are here:

Name:   tridum
Posts:   32 (0.135 per day)
Position:   Regular Poster
Date Registered:   January 30, 2010, 03:53:43 pm
Last Active:   June 13, 2010, 05:53:48 pm
Email:   quadraticequations@gmail.com

Ask the guy to come back to the forums if you are interested on his progress.