LinuxMCE Forums

General => Users => Topic started by: davegravy on March 30, 2009, 09:06:42 pm

Title: Remote: what to buy
Post by: davegravy on March 30, 2009, 09:06:42 pm
From my preliminary (mouse+keyboard) tinkering with linuxmce, I love it. However, the remote is a make-or-break aspect of the system.

I understand Fiire is bankrupt, but that there are efforts to bring a replacement remote to market. Am I best to try to find a used Fiire remote, or wait for this alleged replacement? If I wait, are we talking weeks, months, years?

I really want an accelerometer-based or motion-tracking type remote, not a classic button-push-only type.
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: totallymaxed on March 30, 2009, 09:09:56 pm
From my preliminary (mouse+keyboard) tinkering with linuxmce, I love it. However, the remote is a make-or-break aspect of the system.

I understand Fiire is bankrupt, but that there are efforts to bring a replacement remote to market. Am I best to try to find a used Fiire remote, or wait for this alleged replacement? If I wait, are we talking weeks, months, years?

I really want an accelerometer-based or motion-tracking type remote, not a classic button-push-only type.

I'm not aware of any 'un-announced' Fiire remote replacements just round the corner. If you like the Gyration style remote's then why not buy a Gyration and make a template for it instead.

Andrew
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: davegravy on March 30, 2009, 09:15:39 pm
Quote
I'm not aware of any 'un-announced' Fiire remote replacements just round the corner. If you like the Gyration style remote's then why not buy a Gyration and make a template for it instead.

FYI, I got that rumor from:

http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=7619.msg48947#msg48947 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=7619.msg48947#msg48947)
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 30, 2009, 11:34:50 pm
No, what I said was, things were in motion to provide a community store for buying LinuxMCE gear.

I really wish you guys would stop drawing conclusions from inconclusive data, and actually deal with the facts presented.

Gyration is gone. Those remotes are gone. This leaves you with:

* Get a tablet from tkmedia.
* Get a tablet from somewhere else to run ebay
* Get a PDA to run Orbiter
* Get a supported cell phone to run Orbiter
* Get a Windows MCE remote and a USB UIRT.
* Write support for a new remote control device into Orbiter, or pay me to write support for a device.

Pick one.

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: colinjones on March 31, 2009, 12:02:39 am
It can be frustrating when someone does not read a whole thread, when the answers are already pretty clear in that thread. I would take a simpler approach and post the actual message that clarifies this question. As you can see, the clarification was only 2 posts further on!

http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=7619.msg49023#msg49023
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: totallymaxed on March 31, 2009, 01:31:12 am
Gyration is gone. Those remotes are gone. This leaves you with:

Hmmm...well they don't seem 'gone' to me... see http://www.gyration.com/#productOverview (http://www.gyration.com/#productOverview) and there seem to be plenty of Gyrations products from retailers here in Europe.

Personally I never liked the Fiire remote one bit... it was ugly as hell in that nasty brown plastic...and in my opinion a pig to use...so I am not recommending the Gyration as i personally would not choose one...but if Gyro is your thing then its up to you...

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 01:43:26 am
Andrew, they are phasing out their entire product line as their new parent company focuses on the medical industry.

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: totallymaxed on March 31, 2009, 02:00:10 am
Andrew, they are phasing out their entire product line as their new parent company focuses on the medical industry.

-Thom


Well they are signing up new licensees in Asia (CEBIT demonstrated this) and their own-branded line is fully available in Europe. So there will be plenty of Gyration & 3rd party product available for the forseable future.

Again i hate the things but there are plenty who dont...

Andrew
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: kyfalcon on March 31, 2009, 03:49:39 am
I've got a gyration and the gyro only works about 25% of the time. I'd save your money and just get the windows remote. You'll get used to it in a hurry!
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 03:55:47 am
Or actually get a real orbiter and get full integration.

The Windows Remote is literally the bottom of the totem pole in terms of functionality.

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: wombiroller on March 31, 2009, 06:29:35 am
I've got a gyration and the gyro only works about 25% of the time. I'd save your money and just get the windows remote. You'll get used to it in a hurry!

FWIW I have the Gyration GYR3101US http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Using_the_Gyration_Remote_GYR3101US_(Non-Fiire_Chief) (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Using_the_Gyration_Remote_GYR3101US_(Non-Fiire_Chief)) and it works 100% of the time.... I'm sure you could track one of these down if you tried hard enough.

I also much prefer to Gyro to a webpad for browsing for Movies/TV Shows. Once you get used to it - it is far faster than a webpad... Or at least it is assuming you are using WiFi which adds a not so insignificant amount of latency.
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: Ray_N on March 31, 2009, 02:50:21 pm
Hey davegravy... if you are US based, check this out...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16880105001

They seem to still have some available... I just bought one about two months ago, so far pretty good...although sometimes LMCE just stops tracking the pointer (from the Gyration *and* from the regular USB mouse attached). Not sure what it is yet...

R
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: Dale_K on March 31, 2009, 04:43:29 pm
I have a Fiire remote and I freakin love it!  I just got a WebDT 366 and it's nice too but there are a few things really keeping me from using it.

No absolute positioning: With the gyro remote I can hold the media button and use absolute positioning for volume, lighting, media, etc.  The pad orbiter doesn't have this.  With the pad you cycle through 2X, 4X, 8X, etc. like you would with a normal remote.  Yes, it's fully functional, but once you get used to absolute positioning it's annoying to go without it.

No visual indication of volume control:  When I press the volume up/down on the pad there is no indication that it is going up other than the audible volume level.  I know this is a tiny thing but I really like seeing a bar indicating volume level.

The only WebDT's you can get are used so you will have to accept that they will have various imperfections, unsure battery life, scratches, etc.  The one I have is not too bad visually, but obviously used and the battery only lasts an hour or so.  I am keeping an eye on some of the new pads coming out (I hate having used stuff), hopefully there will be a good solution coming out under $1000 and I could go that way.

I think I would use the WebPad if it had absolute positioning and I could get a new battery, but for now I have both the pad and the Fiire remote sitting next to each other and I ALWAYS reach for the Fiire remote.  I've already ordered 3 of the Gyration remotes, one for the back rooms of my house and 2 for standby replacement.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 05:07:11 pm
The gyration remotes will work if people will pay me to do the necessary driver work.

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: Dale_K on March 31, 2009, 05:43:52 pm
The gyration remotes will work if people will pay me to do the necessary driver work.

-Thom

I was under the impression I can get a Gyration remote to work as per this wiki article:
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Using_the_Gyration_Remote_GYR3101US_%28Non-Fiire_Chief%29

Is that not the case?
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 05:54:17 pm
*hmm*

Nobody reads, nobody pays attention.

There are dead keys on the remote. To get full support of this remote, Orbiter has to be extended to parse the raw HID packets coming off this remote to handle the keys that the kernel does not handle.

Damn it, I am getting very tired of explaining this!!!

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: dlewis on March 31, 2009, 05:57:01 pm
Guys, in an effort to keep Thom sane, please re-read what he wrote... In short, it looks like development activities will be needed to make this work. Thom has offered services to complete this...
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: UNi on March 31, 2009, 06:17:20 pm
It will work as described in the wiki article only.  I also was able to program functions from my TV's IR remote into the Gyration, such as turning the power on and off and picking an input source.  There are directions that come with the remote that describe how.  I, myself, and satisfied with how it works with LMCE.

-UNi
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 06:20:00 pm
Why don't you get an IR blaster such as the USB UIRT, and have LMCE actually control your AV devices instead of hacking them into the Gyration remote? You're doing it backwards!

-Thom
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: Dale_K on March 31, 2009, 07:11:43 pm
*hmm*

Nobody reads, nobody pays attention.

There are dead keys on the remote. To get full support of this remote, Orbiter has to be extended to parse the raw HID packets coming off this remote to handle the keys that the kernel does not handle.

Damn it, I am getting very tired of explaining this!!!

-Thom


Thom,

I'm aware of the dead keys on the remote as I did read the article.  I accept the limitation as there is, for me, no better alternative.
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: totallymaxed on March 31, 2009, 08:19:22 pm
*hmm*

Nobody reads, nobody pays attention.

There are dead keys on the remote. To get full support of this remote, Orbiter has to be extended to parse the raw HID packets coming off this remote to handle the keys that the kernel does not handle.

Damn it, I am getting very tired of explaining this!!!

-Thom


Thom - is that info on the Wiki somewhere?

Andrew
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: skeptic on March 31, 2009, 08:21:41 pm
Why don't you get an IR blaster such as the USB UIRT, and have LinuxMCE actually control your AV devices instead of hacking them into the Gyration remote? You're doing it backwards!

-Thom

Meh, does it matter?  If you have a remote in your hand and press vol-up for example, does it really matter if the remote is sending to the TV or if LMCE gets the command and forwards it to the TV?  As long as you're only using one remote to control everything, and that remote isn't being carried from room to room, it seems like a fine solution to me.  Ok, so maybe LMCE can't automatically deal with inputs if you do it this way, but unless you have discreet input control on your TV I have found letting LMCE handle that is more hassle than it's worth.  If there isn't a template for your TV it's a bit of a hassle to setup.  Then there is the cost and appearance factor.  Why would anyone want to pay $50+ to have extra stuff near their TV and go through the setup just so they can press the same buttons and have the same results?

Or maybe I'm missing something?
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: Anthony_Molg on March 31, 2009, 09:00:17 pm
The gyration remotes will work if people will pay me to do the necessary driver work.

-Thom

Thom
   What would need to be done? How much would it cost to get you to help? I am sure there are a few people around willing to chip in a little.  :)

Anthony
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: tschak909 on March 31, 2009, 09:24:07 pm
Whatever floats your boat, bro. This system is capable of completely unifying your AV setup, no matter which remote is used, that's the bloody point, but, whatever.

-Thom

Why don't you get an IR blaster such as the USB UIRT, and have LinuxMCE actually control your AV devices instead of hacking them into the Gyration remote? You're doing it backwards!

-Thom

Meh, does it matter?  If you have a remote in your hand and press vol-up for example, does it really matter if the remote is sending to the TV or if LinuxMCE gets the command and forwards it to the TV?  As long as you're only using one remote to control everything, and that remote isn't being carried from room to room, it seems like a fine solution to me.  Ok, so maybe LinuxMCE can't automatically deal with inputs if you do it this way, but unless you have discreet input control on your TV I have found letting LinuxMCE handle that is more hassle than it's worth.  If there isn't a template for your TV it's a bit of a hassle to setup.  Then there is the cost and appearance factor.  Why would anyone want to pay $50+ to have extra stuff near their TV and go through the setup just so they can press the same buttons and have the same results?

Or maybe I'm missing something?
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: lmce3000 on March 31, 2009, 09:52:56 pm
Hi all,

working on a deal to get a few of these bad boys here as orbiters/music zone type scenario. At about $400 a pop.
Check it out... http://www.norhtec.com/products/touche/index.html
Title: Re: Remote: what to buy
Post by: skeptic on April 01, 2009, 12:37:43 am
Whatever floats your boat, bro. This system is capable of completely unifying your AV setup, no matter which remote is used, that's the bloody point, but, whatever.

-Thom

Why don't you get an IR blaster such as the USB UIRT, and have LinuxMCE actually control your AV devices instead of hacking them into the Gyration remote? You're doing it backwards!

-Thom

Meh, does it matter?  If you have a remote in your hand and press vol-up for example, does it really matter if the remote is sending to the TV or if LinuxMCE gets the command and forwards it to the TV?  As long as you're only using one remote to control everything, and that remote isn't being carried from room to room, it seems like a fine solution to me.  Ok, so maybe LinuxMCE can't automatically deal with inputs if you do it this way, but unless you have discreet input control on your TV I have found letting LinuxMCE handle that is more hassle than it's worth.  If there isn't a template for your TV it's a bit of a hassle to setup.  Then there is the cost and appearance factor.  Why would anyone want to pay $50+ to have extra stuff near their TV and go through the setup just so they can press the same buttons and have the same results?

Or maybe I'm missing something?
That's how I have it setup, but some people have a more simple setup and if it works for them then it's not necessarily backwards.  To be completely honest, the whole USBUIRT thing doesn't work well with my TV.  The IR from the remote messes with the IR from the USBUIRT so volume control doesn't work.  In testing I covered up the remote and USBUIRT receiver leaving the remote USBUIRT sending unit over the TV's IR receiver and volume works fine so I know it's interference.  It's been confirmed by others when I first asked, so it's not just me.  Plus using my GoMouse, volume control is fine.  In my case, I'm doing it the LMCE way, but the more simple solution of programming the remote to send the TV vol control would work better.  No, I'm not going to completely cover my IR receiver on my TV, the TV has semi-discrete inputs and LMCE gets all confused so I just use the TV remote whenever I want to swap inputs. 

The problem comes down to the fact not everyone has the same hardware, some works well, some doesn't.  Some people have complicated setups where LMCE really shines, other people have simple setups where doing something the LMCE way is more $$, more setup, and no additional functionality (or even less).  Personally I'm trying to do everything by the book, but it doesn't always work out well as in my TV example above.  Another issue is that IMHO, IR sucks.  Now that I actually have a working LMCE setup, I will be trying to keep new purchases LMCE happy.  Things like a supported TV and A/V equipment with serial/usb controls.  Until then, I'm stuck making compromises.