LinuxMCE Forums
General => Installation issues => Topic started by: emachala on January 31, 2009, 02:35:14 am
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Hello, im pretty familiar with with linuxmce now ... i have been building a few test units controlling the MD's with iphone and other wifi orbiters.... Im currently building a whole house audio and video distribution system using russound sphere system... there are 6 plasmas throughout out the house on different zones with russsound sphere key pads. All of the equipment and wires for everything is in a media closet off the home theatre room that is the 7th media director for the 1080i projector... So all the 6-7MD's and the core will all be in a rack next to the all the other AV equipment for the house.... Most of the house A/V equipment is all source controlled right on the keypads in each zone. I Would like to have a 7 capture cards 1 in each MD connected to the output on all the cable boxes and then IR control all the cable boxs in each zone.....
So I would like to know how I can control all of the AV equipment equipment in the media closet with a wifi orbiter everything in closet is IR except for xbox controller...which type of PCI tv capture cards are best for my application... They need to be able to communicate with each TV cable box independently and yes I want to use the cable boxes for the TV guides no direct connections without boxes...
Sorry if this is hard to follow...This is a custom set-up so ask anything you need to know..
Thanks
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I Would like to have a 7 capture cards 1 in each MD connected to the output on all the cable boxes
Its a shame you have such a nice setup to only be able to send s-video quality signal to your nice plasma's
unless i missed something
Tim
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actually I use these one on each Media director to get them all outputting in HD..... testing another model too but the other has 1080i issues 720 great...
http://www.ambery.com/pcvgtohdcovi.html .... would do hdmi I ran 2 cat6e's that can convert 2 6e into hdmi to all plasmas.... but hdmi matrix switching is a issue for industry right now and it can work for linuxmce but not for all my proprietary systems
but i think VGA to component is best and it still gets 1080i ....
But what are the TV capture cards to get.... dose it not matter since output in HD HD-5500 or PVR's???
If i have 7 TV cards one in each MD can I watch TV in 4 rooms each on a different channel and each TV using the cable box or fios box with the TV GUIDE????
And then while doing that could 2 other capture cards record my favorite show and my wifes too? leaving one card free to watch live or record?
Can someone help me with these issues?
Eric
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Some people really do have more money than sense...
Honestly bro, you'd do yourself a lot of service, if you tore it down and started from scratch with LinuxMCE in mind, instead of trying to treat this system like some Crestron installation.
-Thom
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OKay you got me ... :) but your just the person I need to speak with.... I was had no idea about linuxmce before last month... Im stilling the framing process but not for long before we drywall.... SO Nothing is in stone.... Can you please help me set this up.... Before i get started ... I was just going with a russound multi zone multi room system... because of the cost you get all those keypads and the system to do like 12 seperate video source and a bunch of audio zones for like 10,000... all the other system like linuxmce are really like 30,000k or more to do a house my size got alot of quotes so were like 150k so... i kinda wasn't doing anything inot this realm of home automation till I found linuxmce now... IM HOOKED... but what would you recommend please if you could build you dream setup...
I have as you must have read everything going to the media closet.... there are many audio zones throughout the house this is why i would like wall keypads... so the house is roughed ...framed and wired I can change anything now ... i have the whole house networked with 6e, was planning to use linuxmce with the voip and some Cisco 7970's and some wifi units too... There are many wall and ceiling speakers in all the rooms for the different audio zones and 6 plasma locations with lol 6e's composites, hdmi's, coaxial's, rgb's you name i got it run back to the media closet...
Ive done most of the installation my self... I still require my house is distribute video and audio to all of my zones and have some basic wall keypads in all the zones i have already run 5e to all the zones for the keypads there are like 10 keypads....
I also plan to use 4 wire thermostats compatible with x10/insteon there are 5 hvac zones
I haven't bought any Av equipment for the new house yet... but i really want to keep everything in the media closet including the media directors...
Please tell me everything... How would you set this up using linuxmce ... I'm still a noob ... but im sold ... but im getting close to my insulation and drywall date... I really need to know what needs to be done now for wiring before we close up... and maybe you can help me with some tips with this set-up later too :)
I appreciate any help you might be able to give
Thanks Again
Eric
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Really man, you need to get over this closet thing! Putting the Media Directors in there defeats the whole purpose. Think of them like thin clients. You can get really small hardware to run these on very inconspicuously, quietly/silently and at very low power. Some of the Fiire products are even vesa mount so you mount them on the back of a vesa capable TV - invisible.
By all means have a dedicated core stuffed in a closet. All you need to wire around the house is Cat 6 cabling to each location, back to the closet and put a gig switch in there. The philosophy of LMCE is to place an MD in each Entertainment Area and have it 1) serve up media to a local AV system, and 2) control that local AV system to integrate with LMCE.
Suggest in the main Entertainment Areas you get a proper surround (DD/DTS) AV receiver with optical/SPDIF audio input and ideally RS232 serial control interface ("control" don't be fooled by the ones that say the 232 is "service"). Same for the TV - best it has RS232 control. Build an MD that has an nVidia graphics card, 1GB RAM, no HDD needed. Get DVI or HDMI motherboard and ensure the sound has SPDIF out, and the sound chip is at least 5.1 capable (they are pretty much all 7.1 these days anyway)
In lesser Entertainment Areas, go for a smaller MD (or the same!) You don't need to get the full AV set up - you can easily get away with the standard stereo or surround speakers that come with sound cards. Thus you don't need to control the audio side of things. Screen here can be uncontrolled (you turn it on and off yourself, etc) or controlled by 232 at the higher end, or just get the USB UIRT IR blaster and control it through IR (some caveats).
What TV are you capturing? Cable/encrypted services? Is that why you are talking about analogue? For terrestrial/network/free-to-air TV there is zero point going for analogue. Get an HDHomeRun for digital - plug n play with LMCE, gives you 2 HD terrestrial TV channels that can be streamed anywhere. Add more as needed. For cable/encrypted services, there needs to be more thought there....
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Eric,
where are you located?
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Really man, you need to get over this closet thing! Putting the Media Directors in there defeats the whole purpose. Think of them like thin clients. You can get really small hardware to run these on very inconspicuously, quietly/silently and at very low power. Some of the Fiire products are even vesa mount so you mount them on the back of a vesa capable TV - invisible.
By all means have a dedicated core stuffed in a closet. All you need to wire around the house is Cat 6 cabling to each location, back to the closet and put a gig switch in there. The philosophy of LMCE is to place an MD in each Entertainment Area and have it 1) serve up media to a local AV system, and 2) control that local AV system to integrate with LMCE.
Suggest in the main Entertainment Areas you get a proper surround (DD/DTS) AV receiver with optical/SPDIF audio input and ideally RS232 serial control interface ("control" don't be fooled by the ones that say the 232 is "service"). Same for the TV - best it has RS232 control. Build an MD that has an nVidia graphics card, 1GB RAM, no HDD needed. Get DVI or HDMI motherboard and ensure the sound has SPDIF out, and the sound chip is at least 5.1 capable (they are pretty much all 7.1 these days anyway)
In lesser Entertainment Areas, go for a smaller MD (or the same!) You don't need to get the full AV set up - you can easily get away with the standard stereo or surround speakers that come with sound cards. Thus you don't need to control the audio side of things. Screen here can be uncontrolled (you turn it on and off yourself, etc) or controlled by 232 at the higher end, or just get the USB UIRT IR blaster and control it through IR (some caveats).
What TV are you capturing? Cable/encrypted services? Is that why you are talking about analogue? For terrestrial/network/free-to-air TV there is zero point going for analogue. Get an HDHomeRun for digital - plug n play with LMCE, gives you 2 HD terrestrial TV channels that can be streamed anywhere. Add more as needed. For cable/encrypted services, there needs to be more thought there....
Well if you want a totally silent, clutter free environment without AV Amps and an MD under/next to each screen... and many people do for sure... then centrally locating all MD's & the Core/AV Amps etc is certainly one way to go. We do installations like that sometime when our customers really dont want any equipment other than the screens in each room/zone. We would then use multiple CAT5's to each screen;
- 1 x CAT5 for USB
- 2 x CAT5 for HDMI (using HDMI over CAT5 converters)
Then you would have your MD's in the rack with the Core & AV amps and use a USB to CAT5 + HDMI to CAT5 transmitter per MD and a CAT5 to USB & a CAT5 to HDMI Receiver at each screen. You then can have a small unpowered USB Hub behind each screen and attach your MCE Tranceiver for IR remote control, a wireless keyboard and a USB-RS232 interface into the screen (if it has RS232 control capability). This gives you everything you would have if you distributed the MD's behind/under the screens but does away with the clutter. Downside is a lot more cable to install (multiple CAT5's & long speaker cables) and a big rack. But if thats a trade off your happy with its works very nicely. Its a testament to how flexible and powerful LinuxMCE is that you can achieve this.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
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Well if you want a totally clutter free environment... and some people do for sure... then centrally locating all MD's & the Core/AV Amps etc is certainly one way to go. We do installations like that sometime when our customers really dont want any equipment other than the screens in each room/zone. We would then use multiple CAT5's to each screen;
- 1 x CAT5 for USB
- 2 x CAT5 for HDMI (using HDMI over CAT5 converters)
Then you would have your MD's in the rack with the Core and use a USB to CAT5 + HDMI to CAT5 transmitter per MD and a CAT5 to USB & a CAT% to HDMI Receiver at each screen. You then can have a small unpowered USB Hub behind each screen and attach your MCE Tranceiver for IR remote control, a wireless keyboard and a USB-RS232 interface into the screen (if it has RS232 control capability). This gives you everything you would have if you distributed the MD's behind/under the screens but does away with the clutter. Downside is a lot more cable to install and a big rack. But if thats a trade off your happy with its works very nicely. Its a testament to how flexible and powerful LinuxMCE is that you can achieve this.
Hope this helps.
Andrew
Andrew Thanks the the information i need...
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You may just want to compare the Quality of picture you can get with a 1080i or 1080p when directly connected to tv with your HD singal (BD PLAYER or SATBOX) to the picture that gets scaled down to s-video and goes through that configuration and then rescaled back to HD.
just my 2 cents
Tim
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You may just want to compare the Quality of picture you can get with a 1080i or 1080p when directly connected to tv with your HD singal (BD PLAYER or SATBOX) to the picture that gets scaled down to s-video and goes through that configuration and then rescaled back to HD.
just my 2 cents
Tim
svideo? i dont plan i using any svideo?
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What capture cards are you using in the MD ?
What connector does it have for input from sat box?
not sure if i missed something?
Tim
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none ive been asking for a recommendation so I can order one and test it... ive seen many some hdmi some component... I need something that will capture the cable box feed including the cable boxes OSD ie the tv guide and I Have 7 cable boxes and i want to use them all ...either watching live TV or recording scheduled programs...
Which cards would you recommend... that work with linuxmce too
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You may just want to compare the Quality of picture you can get with a 1080i or 1080p when directly connected to tv with your HD singal (BD PLAYER or SATBOX) to the picture that gets scaled down to s-video and goes through that configuration and then rescaled back to HD.
just my 2 cents
Tim
If you use HDMI -> CAT5 -> HDMI there is not quality loss or scaling involved at all.
Andrew
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none ive been asking for a recommendation so I can order one and test it... ive seen many some hdmi some component... I need something that will capture the cable box feed including the cable boxes OSD ie the tv guide and I Have 7 cable boxes and i want to use them all ...either watching live TV or recording scheduled programs...
Which cards would you recommend... that work with linuxmce too
Well if the cable boxes are also PVR's (like the SKY+ & SkyHD boxes are in my earlier example) then you can avoid capturing (and therefore downgrading their video ouput quality) by just using the individual cable boxes for recording and just control them from LinuxMCE... the video gets distributed over HDMI to each screen. Do you need 7 cable boxes? Seems unlikely to me...
Cable Box1 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box2 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box3 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box4 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
The two downsides to this config are that the recordings are distributed on each Cable boxes internal hard drive and you end up with a substantial amount of additional hardware and cables in the rack - but it gives you full control of each Cable box and full HD video quality at each screen.
Andrew
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Basically, at this point, your only saving grace would be multiple Hauppauge HD-PVR capture devices. These capture the component signal, but would essentially solve the distribution hell of doing HDMI switching.
However, since these devices are still relatively new, the driver is still in development. I do not have any of these devices here, so I can't attest to the stability of the current driver in Janne's mercurial repository.
Then a device template needs to be made to control the device.
-Thom
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My point exactly pvr 150 svid in is what works currently out of the box with lmce.
and in his description of sat to md connection that would be the only OOB solution. with 0710
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eh... maybe i'll just go with 2 pvr150's with cable feed and ir emitter to the front of the 2 STB's g100 and then have all the other STBs distribute with the rest of the a/v equipment through my ACA-E5 http://www.russoundsphere.com/acae5.html it has RS-232 control systems so i should have no problem controlling it with linuxmce? correct?
and using the ir receivers in the keypads to control linuxmce MD OSD's in each zone??
Eric
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would prefer not to use 6e to hdmi till matrix switchers are cheaper for 8x8 or larger .... will i have any problems doing vga to component i can get hardware converters for 720p and 1080i
Eric
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would prefer not to use 6e to hdmi till matrix switchers are cheaper for 8x8 or larger .... will i have any problems doing vga to component i can get hardware converters for 720p and 1080i
Eric
I would not recommend going VGA -> Component.
just go HDMI direct.
You dont need to go 8x8 if you look at my earlier post.... and unlike usinga PVR150/250 etc you will get full HD quality througout.
Andrew
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so whats the big problem using a powered converter to switch the VGA from the MD to Component?? can it be done?....
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I would suggest you don't want to run component over those kinds of distances. In fact you don't want to run HD across any analogue technology. If you insist, then get graphics cards that already have component outs, don't convert analogue to analogue. If you are determined to keep the MD's away from their respective Entertainment Areas (although I still don't see a good reason) then I strongly suggest you follow Totallymaxed's advice - he and his company do this type of thing all the time, professionally, so he knows what he is talking about! Pity you are in Rhode Island and not Essex, he would have been able to do the work for you :)
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RI Just happens to be right between TSCHAK and TKmedia ;)
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I would suggest you don't want to run component over those kinds of distances. In fact you don't want to run HD across any analogue technology. If you insist, then get graphics cards that already have component outs, don't convert analogue to analogue. If you are determined to keep the MD's away from their respective Entertainment Areas (although I still don't see a good reason) then I strongly suggest you follow Totallymaxed's advice - he and his company do this type of thing all the time, professionally, so he knows what he is talking about! Pity you are in Rhode Island and not Essex, he would have been able to do the work for you :)
Your right Colin Essex is too far from RI ;-)...happy to help/advise from afar via the forum though.
... however it looks like tkmedia and tschak are reasonably local and could get involved directly if emachala was interested in that...and If I was him I would go that route for sure.
All the best
Andrew
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RI Just happens to be right between TSCHAK and TKmedia ;)
That's why I was asking, where Eric is located.
Maybe he wants to hire Tschak909 for 4 hour inspection tour. It probably is the best 1000USD Eric had spend on his installation. At the end Eric will know exactly what works, what does not work, and what should be done.
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lol thanks for the offer but everything humanly possible is already run to each location so i can go either option... I have decided after some tests that Andrew is absolutely correct and utilizing my 2-6e's for hdmi 1 5e for usb hub to each tv is great..... Also
Still not sure, andrew about your information about HDMI switch ... looking to purchase....
How many hdmi switches is this:
Cable Box1 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box2 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box3 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Cable Box4 -> HDMI -> 1-8 (or 1-16) HDMI switch with one HDMI out to each MD's 4-1 (or 6-1) HDMI switch (RS232 controlled) -> HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Thinking im just going to do ... will this work? every cable box has a PVR
each MD with one hdmi rs232 controlled switch 2-1
Cable Box -> HDMI -> 2-1 -
| ---- HDMI to CAT5 to HDMI ->screen
Media Director -> HDMI 2-1 -
Andrew where can these units do you know A online store?
I know Media Director HDMI is just Video but Cable box is HD video and audio .... can i separate the cable box audio because russound sphere will have to distribute the audio for cable boxes and media directors to each zone ....
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Maybe i can hire you as tech later down the line...
RI Just happens to be right between TSCHAK and TKmedia ;)
That's why I was asking, where Eric is located.
Maybe he wants to hire Tschak909 for 4 hour inspection tour. It probably is the best 1000USD Eric had spend on his installation. At the end Eric will know exactly what works, what does not work, and what should be done.
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Maybe he wants to hire Tschak909 for 4 hour inspection tour. It probably is the best 1000USD Eric had spend on his installation. At the end Eric will know exactly what works, what does not work, and what should be done.
Maybe i can hire you as tech later down the line...
Eric,
with lmce preparation beforehand is key to success, and saves a BUNCH of time and money. "If I knew than what I know now..." I could have saved myself a lot of hassle, and a lot of false money spending.
And it is not me, as I am not nearly as qualified. I do not know of anyone else than Thom, that *I* would hire to get things done.
Enough for now ;)
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HDMI mobo's coming in tomorrow will start to build the systems in a portable rack for testing prior to integration later into my home...
What alarm system/panel is best .... can i use any panel with rj45 connector setup for communication?
Andrew ... thanks for all your help.... im gonna run the hdmi inputs to each plasma 2 6e to hdmi and and additional 6e like you said for a usb so i can add each plasma's rs232 commands to orbiters .... Im going to do as you say and leave the cable boxes completely out of the equation and just control them with linuxmce.....
Im to transfer my service from cox to our new fiber optic service provider verizon fios... (just fiber to the side of the house) coaxial to cablemodem .....
Im not sure how to interface with the fios boxes yet.... since all the boxes are in the media rack next to the core and MD rack... should i just use a gc100 or two as needed.... in case of interface issues ?? Besides im sure there are other devices that use ir that gc100 can solve... even my hdmi 2-1 switch is ir remote with port....
Core system and the Media director for the home theater room are CPU AMD|A64 X2 7750 AM2 with nvidia hmdi and 7.1 audio on board with 8 gig of ram in each the core with 4tb internal sata and 3tb usb and the MD home theater is disk-less.... those two systems good? the other 6 media directors diskless will be 6 AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ with 2 or 4 gig in each?? all are NIB parts and being built for my houses linuxmce intergration...
sound all groovy?
Thanks guys
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each plasma having a usb hub i can also attach a bluetooth dongles in each for follow me correct.... Whats the best plug and play model for that....
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each plasma having a usb hub i can also attach a bluetooth dongles in each for follow me correct....
no
follow me works with MDs.
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Don't get confused between the basic LMCE Follow Me function which allows you to get media (plus lighting, climate, etc) to follow you from MD to MD based on you telling it manually through the MD where you are, and the Fiire remote enhancement of that Follow Me functionality.
On the Fiire remote they have a Follow Me button that automatically assesses the strength of each wireless dongle and determines which is the closest, then re-associates with that dongle and issues the commands to tell LMCE which MD you have moved to. So Follow Me using the dedicated button on the Fiire remote is extremely automatic. But it uses the underlying Follow Me functionality of LMCE. So you can still get media etc to follow you just a bit more manually. You can get it to work with other Bluetooth remotes, but they don't have the dedicated button nor the range-finding so its more manual, and less accurate on determining which is the closest MD
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Well i was interested in using a MD usb to cat 6e to usb to usb hub to bluetooth dodgle and usb to serial rs232 to plasma.... Plan on using a bluetooth remote cell phones... So does the fire remote work out of the box for followme?
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The fiire remote and dongle together work out of the box for follow me.
But Eric, your setup is quite, hmm... interesting. You are wasting lots of money for little or no gain with all your "convert-2-CAT6-2-whatever" thingies.
Good luck. And as I originally said, sometimes a 1000USD up front is better than wasting 20x 60USD over a period of 2 weeks.
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posde read up im taking Andrews advice which does pro installs .... (2) 6e for hdmi and (1)5e or 6e for usb hub to hide behind tv... this allows equipment to be installed via distanced from plasma ..... if not there will be way more wires....
im gonna post pictures for you all of the media closet and and all Plasma locations so u can get a visual... and as many have said having extra cables is better than not enough with that said pics to come..
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posde read up im taking Andrews advice which does pro installs .... (2) 6e for hdmi and (1)5e or 6e for usb hub to hide behind tv... this allows equipment to be installed via distanced from plasma ..... if not there will be way more wires....
im gonna post pictures for you all of the media closet and and all Plasma locations so u can get a visual... and as many have said having extra cables is better than not enough with that said pics to come..
Hi again,
I would really suggest just thinking for a moment about what your embarking on here...LinuxMCE is a big complex system that needs a lot of time to understand and get to grips with. You aspirations for your new home are all achievable and technically feasible and i am sure given time you, like many others here in the forum, will acquire all the skills and knowledge needed to put the system together for yourself. But if I were you I would think very carefully about getting Tschak909 involved to at least help you plan out your system and so you dont make mistakes and bad choices early on.
The worst thing you can do is just to go out and buy a pile of hardware and then try to make it do what you want... you'll get frustrated and disenchanted with the whole process. I would suggest that spending a little of your budget now with Tschak909 (who really know this system inside out... and is reasonably close to you unlike me who is 4000 miles away ;-) ) is really a very sound investment in getting your install right and at the same time learning about the system from a supremely expert person.
Alternatively just build a small understandable system now and learn by experimenting with that first (you can still install all the cabling and other 'infrastructure' into your new home now so your ready to do the full system later). You could still get Tschak909 involved to help you learn whats needed on this system too... that would make sense.
My suggestions for how you should architect your system are 100% sound... we install systems in this way all the time. However I am not 'close by' and if you hit problems I cant be of very much help...Tschak909 can. So again my advice is that if you want to go ahead and dive strait in and integrate LinuxMCE into your new home then I would get Tschak909 involved to make sure you get it right.
Of course I am happy to continue to help you via the forum (I am here everyday anyway ;-) ).
All the best
Andrew
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Exactly.... I have been talking with tkmedia and I have no problem problem hiring someone to help with configurations or problems that might arise if I cant figure them out on my own..... i have overkill for the amount of cables from each plasma too .... but asked many have said better to have extra than not enough...
Here is a photo of all the cables for all the plasmas and network and security feeds there are data conduits all though out the house so after close up cables run can still be made to all areas
Thanks
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Another close up of media closet rack
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here is a shot of the bundle of wires from each plasma to media closet 6 bundles like this one total to Media Rack/closet'
Also made a quick walk though video i'll post later tonight can give more of a visual followed some runs and show little more detail...
Thanks All for help
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Exactly.... I have been talking with tkmedia and I have no problem problem hiring someone to help with configurations or problems that might arise if I cant figure them out on my own..... i have overkill for the amount of cables from each plasma too .... but asked many have said better to have extra than not enough...
Here is a photo of all the cables for all the plasmas and network and security feeds there are data conduits all though out the house so after close up cables run can still be made to all areas
Thanks
Hi,
Good to hear that you've made contact with Tkmedia thats great. Looks like the cabling is well in hand!
All the best
Andrew
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I still agree a interview up front with Thom is still your best bet before you start spending a ton of money buying /doing things incorrectly.
Tim