Has anyone been able to get this install DVD to work?:
http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3980070 - LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3
Will not boot for me. I have ubuntu 7.10 running on:
Motherboard Asus M2N-SLI Deluxe Green nVIDIA Socket Am2 ATX
Processor AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core 6000+ 3.0 GHz
Memory 8096MB Dual Channel 4096MB PC6400 DDR2 800MHz Memory
Video Card - GIGABYTE GV-NX85T256H GeForce 8500GT 256MB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express x16
Hard Drive - HITACHI Deskstar 7K1000 HDS721010KLA330 (0A34915) 1TB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s
DVD - SAMSUNG SH203N SATA
Any info appreciated.
Lightkeeper
You don't need kubuntu installed if your installing off the DVD, it will install it for you, and now overwrite what you've already installed. The DVD just puts an image on you disk. Regardless, that's not your problem. If the DVD won't boot, either check the boot order in your BIOS a(make sure your CD is the first boot device) or your DVD is bad.
I've install 710 B3 off the DVD many times, as have others.
Thanks for the reasurrance and suggestions. Must be bad DVD - or something wrong with it. (This is a new hardware build so I installed the ubuntu because I had the install disk and it was an easy way to prove the hardware works after being dissapointed with the DVD install not working.)
-- I am not finding md5sums on on the download site or (preferably) on the linuxmce website that points to the official torrents: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Mirrors_0710_beta_3
I think md5sums came through with the download - I guess I just use those? (seems like there should be an independant source.) I guess I should check my download anyway - and I guess you can also check the DVD after burning?
Burning Question: It is a single .iso file. Do I just burn this to DVD or are you supposed to unarchive and then burn? (noobe here)
Quote from: lightkeeper on February 09, 2008, 01:32:44 PM
Thanks for the reasurrance and suggestions. Must be bad DVD - or something wrong with it. (This is a new hardware build so I installed the ubuntu because I had the install disk and it was an easy way to prove the hardware works after being dissapointed with the DVD install not working.)
-- I am not finding md5sums on on the download site or (preferably) on the linuxmce website that points to the official torrents: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Mirrors_0710_beta_3
I think md5sums came through with the download - I guess I just use those? (seems like there should be an independant source.) I guess I should check my download anyway - and I guess you can also check the DVD after burning?
Burning Question: It is a single .iso file. Do I just burn this to DVD or are you supposed to unarchive and then burn? (noobe here)
The Beta3 iso is definietely ok. So the problem you have must be local. Yes the iso is a single file and should be burnt to a blank DVD-R disc. I would suggest choosing a slow burn speed eg 2x and then you may find that the disc is fine.
did you look at the contents of the dvd? it doesnt show a single iso file does it? you need to burn the image to the disc. just checking.
Quote from: totallymaxed on February 09, 2008, 03:28:18 PM
The Beta3 iso is definietely ok. So the problem you have must be local. Yes the iso is a single file and should be burnt to a blank DVD-R disc. I would suggest choosing a slow burn speed eg 2x and then you may find that the disc is fine.
.
Quote from: teedge77 on February 09, 2008, 04:14:32 PM
did you look at the contents of the dvd? it doesnt show a single iso file does it? you need to burn the image to the disc. just checking.
Hmmm .. seems like conflicting advice re files on the disk --
Should it be a single .iso file or a bunch of folders and files? (its all new to me).
More of my history with this:
1. Built new pc. I had no DVD burner so my son helped out by downloading the 7.10 beta3 install DVD AMD - for me. It started to boot - got the initial screen with the menu where you select install -- then ended up going to blue screen and never finishing. This DVD had a bunch of folders and files.
2. Wondered if hardware problem. Installed ubuntu from a CD my friend Tom had downloaded for me. Works ok and now enables the DVD burner in my new pc. (the ubuntu CD had a bunch of folders and files)
3. Downloaded - http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3980070 - LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 - burned single ISO file to DVD - wont boot.
4. Unarchived that single .iso file and burned DVD with a bunch of files and folders -- still wont boot.
5. Downloaded the CD installation: http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3980064 - LinuxMCE Install CDs for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 Get error message wrong architecture. Maby I have to have kubuntu first instead of ubuntu? Think I will try kubuntu download just to prove the burner is working.
So I conclude my problem is local - am re-down loading DVD - will burn at slow speed -- is it supposed to be a single .iso file or what?
Do not unarchive, just select "Burn Disk Image" in whatever burning software you are using, then give it that .iso file. If you are using builtin windows burning functionality, it is stupid and will just burn the .iso as a file to a data disk.
Also, if it is giving you an error about wrong architecture, are you sure you are installing on a 64-bit machine? If not, you need to use the i386 install DVD/CDs.
i doubt you need to redownload it. you never did answered my question (or was that number 3?) so i will assume you burned it incorrectly. when you download it, it will be a single file (ISO). when it is burned correctly it will be unarchived as it is burned and you will have the correct files on the dvd. unarchiving renders the files unbootable. an iso file is not bootable. do like venom said and burn the image to the disk. you will need to find the correct way to do this. id have your son help maybe. you might want to look up burning image files with the burning software you have on google.
I'd like to confirm that LMCE 0710 Beta 3 ADM64 DVD is ok. Problem maybe in not completed downloading, bad DVD or optical drive.
QuoteDownloaded - http://thepiratebay.org/tor/3980070 - LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 - burned single ISO file to DVD - wont boot.
its not gonna do any good to try to download it again or change his drive if he doesnt burn it right.
Yep, AMD64/DVD is perfectly fine and works. I have built my system 9 times with it. Pop the DVD in, make sure the BIOS is configured to boot from CD, press 3 buttons to choose the partition and walk away (for 10 mins).
Lightkeeper - you have just misunderstood the advice that totallymaxed and teedge77 are giving you. They are saying the same thing in different ways. The file you downloaded should definitely just be an .iso file. This is CD/DVD image format. Internally it contains all the files/folders that the DVD needs to have plus the info that makes the disk bootable. BUT once it is burned to DVD it shouldn't look like an .iso - that's the point, you need to use burning software that understands how to translate an .iso into the bunch of file/folders that make up the bootable disk.
As Venom986 says, if your software is dumb (and it would have to be REALLY dumb not to be able to do .iso's - for example Windows!) it will just burn the actual image file, rather than creating a DVD from the image inside that file!
Get PowerISO - free, and very easy to use. Just start it, chose Open iso, you will see all the files/folders in the window pane, then just hit Burn at the top. 5mins later its done. As totallymaxed says, it can be safer to burn at slower speeds to ensure no errors.
You haven't confirmed that you have set your BIOS to boot from CD/DVD before HDD. If you don't do this, no matter how good your burn is, you will never get any DVD to boot.
Quote from: colinjones on February 09, 2008, 11:00:08 PM
Yep, AMD64/DVD is perfectly fine and works. I have built my system 9 times with it. Pop the DVD in, make sure the BIOS is configured to boot from CD, press 3 buttons to choose the partition and walk away (for 10 mins).
Lightkeeper - you have just misunderstood the advice that totallymaxed and teedge77 are giving you. They are saying the same thing in different ways. The file you downloaded should definitely just be an .iso file. This is CD/DVD image format. Internally it contains all the files/folders that the DVD needs to have plus the info that makes the disk bootable. BUT once it is burned to DVD it shouldn't look like an .iso - that's the point, you need to use burning software that understands how to translate an .iso into the bunch of file/folders that make up the bootable disk.
As Venom986 says, if your software is dumb (and it would have to be REALLY dumb not to be able to do .iso's - for example Windows!) it will just burn the actual image file, rather than creating a DVD from the image inside that file!
Get PowerISO - free, and very easy to use. Just start it, chose Open iso, you will see all the files/folders in the window pane, then just hit Burn at the top. 5mins later its done. As totallymaxed says, it can be safer to burn at slower speeds to ensure no errors.
You haven't confirmed that you have set your BIOS to boot from CD/DVD before HDD. If you don't do this, no matter how good your burn is, you will never get any DVD to boot.
All good points Colin :-)
Thanks to all who helped diagnose my cockpit troubles with burning the download. However I am still stuck. Here is what I have done:
Finally found the "how to do it right" info I needed for burning the download at:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BurningIsoHowto
namely:
"In Ubuntu
1. Insert a blank CD into your burner. A "CD/DVD Creator" or "Choose Disc Type" window will pop up. Close this, as we will not be using it.
2. Find the downloaded ISO image in the file browser (available at Places $B"*(B Home menu on top of the screen.) Right click on the ISO image file and choose Write to Disc and wait for burning to complete."
So running ubuntu on the new pc I downloaded kubuntu 7.10 and linuxmce 7.10.
Both ended up on desktop as a single iso file.
I used procedure above to burn each of these, using the lowest speed setting available as recommended to me (4x): kubuntu to a cd and linuxmce to a dvd.
In answer to the qustion previously asked, yes I do have the bios set to boot from CD first.
Next to prove in the ability to burn useable boot disk I installed the kubuntu.
Encountered some problems with graphics - it boots up gives me the initial screen with the install choices, I press enter to go with the first choice, then get blue screen - graphics are gone.
Try to get into terminal mode with CTRL ALT FN1 - get weird display (looks like a monitor test pattern) CTRL ALT FN7 takes me back to blue screen.
Using KVM switch I flip over to windows box and back to kubuntu box -- for about 1 sec I can see that I have a desktop in kubuntu then it goes all blue again.
By flipping back and forth and working in the ~1sec window when I have visibility into the kubuntu desktop I eventually get through the system, hardware, display menus to change monitor settings until I get display.
Then continue with display working to click install icon on desktop, answer install questions, and kubuntu proceeds to install.
kubuntu working fine - remove cd, can boot from hard disk everything works.
So now I put new linuxmce 7.10 boot disk into cd/dvd and reboot from the dvd.
Yes the bios are set to choose the cd first.
It boots up gives me the initial screen with the install choices, I press enter to go with the first choice, then get blue screen - graphics are gone.
Try to get into terminal mode with CTRL ALT FNn nothing happens, try shift 1 to 0 (which I saw something about somehere in the linuxmce help) - nothing.
I try the trick that worked for me with the kubuntu installation namely: Using KVM switch I flip over to windows box and back to kubuntu box -- this time it dosen't work -- I just have a blue screen - no desktop.
This is exatly the same behavior I was getting with the linuxmce 7.10 boot dvd that my son burned for me.
Need some help for what to to next to solve this puzzle.
I can download and install kubuntu, cannot install linuxmce dvd - losing graphics.
Thanks
you dont need to install kubuntu first if you are using the linuxmce dvd to install linuxmce. it will install everything for you. just letting you know so you dont waste time installing extra stuff.
You may want to take the KVM switch out of the equation. I have had install problems in the past using a KVM, so I always just get rid of it for installs. It may not be the problem but it doesn't hurt to try...
skip
Yes, have tried direct with no KVM - same behavior.
Understood that no need to install kubuntu first - did that to demonstrate the ability of the cd/dvd drive, other pc hardware, software and my procedure to burn a useable boot disc.
Able to make boot disc and install kubuntu, linuxmce - can't install due to loss of graphics.
How to solve?
I have a completely different setup than you, lightkeeper, which wouldn't make any difference other than that I have a XFX GeFORCE 8500 GT and am using the AMD64 7.10 dvd beta 3 installation.
I was able to get UI2 (with transparency) working with 0704, but I have had no luck with 0710- as soon as the dvd installation gets past the kubuntu splash screen where I select install, the screen goes black and the crt/lcd goes to sleep. I was able to get it installed by guessing the keys to press (really pretty easy, just select the hdd to install to and hit enter then I waiting until the dvd was kicked out and I restarted). I know this worked because when I switched to the onboard video linuxmce started up but with the pci-e 8500, nothing was showing past the initial screens...
Long story short, I think there is an issue with beta3 and the 8500 card. I've been watching for info for when 0710 will be officially released hoping for a fix, but haven't heard/read any new info for a while.
If I find a solution, I'll post it. This really just an FYI that you're not alone...
lightkeeper
1. The "blue screen" you are getting is almost certainly your monitor using the "blue screen" option that most monitors and almost all TVs have and display when they cannot sync onto the input signal. For analogue TVs this is what you get instead of the static "snow" between channels. For a monitor it is used when it can't sync onto the unmodulated input - so definitely get the KVM out of the equation permanently, or at least until you get past this point. The last thing you want is any other piece of equipment in between that could potentially change the signal.
2. The fact that you can get a picture briefly indicates that there isn't a fundamental issue - just that the signal being send is right on the edge of the monitor's capabilities - almost certainly a vertical refresh, horizontal retrace interval, or some other part of the geometry timings just on the threshold of what it is capable of.
3. The correct way to change the monitor output and resolution is pressing keys 1-0 NOT SHIFT 1-0. You obviously have it on the right output, so don't bother with 1-5. Just change the resolution using 6-0. IMPORTANT: it takes at least 10 seconds to change and the monitor to resync during which time you may see the text based console login screen briefly. Give it plenty of time to settle down before trying the next resolution.
4. If this doesn't fix it - you should certainly see the monitor flickering at least - try turning off the Blue Screen option on your monitor.
5. You need to try another monitor just to confirm that it is a timing issue for the monitor rather than a driver issue.
6. beta 3 has the latest (Dec 07) nVidia common/universal drivers for Linux. I don't see any reason why the 8500 would be a problem
7. If drivers are the problem, the 0710 vanilla you installed seemed to work marginally better, probably because it doesn't have the updated drivers. Try beta 2 instead which also doesn't have the latest drivers - but I stress this is a last resort because beta 3 should work fine and you need to get at least to that anyway with the release version when it arrives. Try the other stuff first.
8. Finally, you at least need to try an get to a console screen you can see if none of the above works. CTRL-ALT-F1/2/3/4/5/6 should all have text-based console screens you can log into, so that you can get and edit your Xorg.conf file - again, this is if the other stuff doesn't work, you should try the UseEDID option.
Quote from: colinjones on February 10, 2008, 11:16:53 PM
lightkeeper
1. The "blue screen" you are getting is almost certainly your monitor using the "blue screen" option that most monitors and almost all TVs have and display when they cannot sync onto the input signal. For analogue TVs this is what you get instead of the static "snow" between channels. For a monitor it is used when it can't sync onto the unmodulated input - so definitely get the KVM out of the equation permanently, or at least until you get past this point. The last thing you want is any other piece of equipment in between that could potentially change the signal.
Yes, agree eliminate KVM - get same behavior with or without KVM. So whatever is going on its not the KVM
Quote from: colinjones on February 10, 2008, 11:16:53 PM
2. The fact that you can get a picture briefly indicates that there isn't a fundamental issue - just that the signal being send is right on the edge of the monitor's capabilities - almost certainly a vertical refresh, horizontal retrace interval, or some other part of the geometry timings just on the threshold of what it is capable of.
Sorry if I did not explain clearly - the brief picture was when I was doing the ubuntu and kubuntu installs when switching back and forth with the KVM. This monitor trys to autosync to whatever it is getting and the 1024x768 60hz it sets itsself to when on the window box does initially produce a picture on the newly installed ubuntu or kbuntu for about 1 sec but then it looses it. With the ubuntu and kbuntu I am able to CTRL-ALT-F1 and edit the xorg.conf file to get it going.
When I attempt the Linuxmce install there is the initial install screen and then it goes blue. Switching back and forth with KVM does not produce a brief picture. Same behavior with KVM removed and going direct. CTRL-ALT-F1 does nothing.
Quote from: colinjones on February 10, 2008, 11:16:53 PM
3. The correct way to change the monitor output and resolution is pressing keys 1-0 NOT SHIFT 1-0. You obviously have it on the right output, so don't bother with 1-5. Just change the resolution using 6-0. IMPORTANT: it takes at least 10 seconds to change and the monitor to resync during which time you may see the text based console login screen briefly. Give it plenty of time to settle down before trying the next resolution.
Yes, I see that now and that there is a sticky "Black screen after installation is finished" by dan evans which gives this procedure. I have tried 2 then 6 etc. Just 6, all digits 6-0 --- nothing happens.
Quote from: colinjones on February 10, 2008, 11:16:53 PM
4. If this doesn't fix it - you should certainly see the monitor flickering at least - try turning off the Blue Screen option on your monitor.
5. You need to try another monitor just to confirm that it is a timing issue for the monitor rather than a driver issue.
The menu of the monitor has no option for turning of the blue screen effect when no usuable signal. Do not have another monitor.
Yes, it is likely a wrong setting of signal to monitor -- themonitor specs has a list of supported resolutions which includes 640x480 @60,72,75, or 85Hz, 800x600@72,75, or 85Hz, 1024x768@60,70,75, or 85HZ as well as 1280x1024@60Hz, 720x400@70Hz, 720x480@60Hz, 1280x720p@60Hz,1920x1080i@60Hz,1366x768@60Hz.
"Monitor adheres to VESA Plug and Play standard to eliminate complicated and time consuming setup of monitors. This monitor identifies itsself to the computer and automatically sends the PC its Extended Identification Data (EDID) using Display Data Channel (DDC) protocols."
Quote from: colinjones on February 10, 2008, 11:16:53 PM
7. If drivers are the problem, the 0710 vanilla you installed seemed to work marginally better, probably because it doesn't have the updated drivers. Try beta 2 instead which also doesn't have the latest drivers - but I stress this is a last resort because beta 3 should work fine and you need to get at least to that anyway with the release version when it arrives. Try the other stuff first.
8. Finally, you at least need to try an get to a console screen you can see if none of the above works. CTRL-ALT-F1/2/3/4/5/6 should all have text-based console screens you can log into, so that you can get and edit your Xorg.conf file - again, this is if the other stuff doesn't work, you should try the UseEDID option.
In the kubuntu install (which works for me) the driver being used is: NVIDIA binary XFree86 4.x/X.Org 'new' driver
As noted above have tried the CTRL-ALT-Fn (n=1-0) can't get to a terminal screen - just stays blue!
Yes, would like to try other version of software. Have not been able to find download for: LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 2
I think I will try for the LinuxMCE Install CDs for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 however I am having some problems getting this. Will start new thread regarding that.
In the meantime if anyone has anymore ideas on how to solve the LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 gives blue screen problem let me know.
There was one helpful post -- jimmejames was somehow able to fly blind and get the thing to install:
Quote from: jimmejames on February 10, 2008, 10:58:06 PM
I have a completely different setup than you, lightkeeper, which wouldn't make any difference other than that I have a XFX GeFORCE 8500 GT and am using the AMD64 7.10 dvd beta 3 installation.
I was able to get UI2 (with transparency) working with 0704, but I have had no luck with 0710- as soon as the dvd installation gets past the kubuntu splash screen where I select install, the screen goes black and the crt/lcd goes to sleep. I was able to get it installed by guessing the keys to press (really pretty easy, just select the hdd to install to and hit enter then I waiting until the dvd was kicked out and I restarted). I know this worked because when I switched to the onboard video linuxmce started up but with the pci-e 8500, nothing was showing past the initial screens...
Long story short, I think there is an issue with beta3 and the 8500 card. I've been watching for info for when 0710 will be officially released hoping for a fix, but haven't heard/read any new info for a while.
If I find a solution, I'll post it. This really just an FYI that you're not alone...
I guess he had an alternate video output from the mobo which let him see something. I don't have any video outputs other than the 8500 card. There is an S-video output on the 8500 card -- maby I will go grab an S-video cable and see what happens.
Thanks to all the posters, and any other ideas for solution appreciated.
I am using the standard VGA output (there is DVI and svideo on my card as well, but I'm not using them). Once you select install from the initial splash screen my screen (lcd and crt, doesn't matter) goes to sleep- the next screen after that (I only know from previous installations of 0704) was a listing your harddrives and a prompt as to which one to install to. To keep from installing over a drive I want to keep, I only run one drive until fully installed, so all I had to do was type "1" and hit "enter". My dvd drive is noisy enough that I could hear it spin up and spin while the installation continued. It takes ~20 min (plus or minus) after which time the dvd will be automatically ejected and a screen will prompt for you to press "enter" when you take the dvd out of the drive (again, my screen doesn't show this, just from installing before I know what to expect).
From there I let the machine reboot and hoped to see the AVWizard screen, but no such luck. When that didn't work, I restarted and went to the bios, changed to the integrated video (geforce 6100) (bought a cheap acer which unfortunately doesn't have svideo out on the board- only vga, that's why I don't use the integrated video). When using the integrated video the kubuntu loader bar showed as expected as did the AVWizard.
I wish I had something else to share with you- a fix, but really only trying to give you confidence that you are not alone.
If I could add a little more, I'm installing this on a second harddrive than the one linuxmce 0704 is currently installed on. With the exception of this harddrive and that I'm trying 0710b3, everything is exactly the same. I was able to get UI2 with alpha blending working with 0704 and, as far as I can tell, everything else works as well- dvd ripping, music, screen savers, etc. I had the same problem as others with the mythtv frontend locking up, so I haven't tried that recently.
You mention you have integrated graphics and a card. I think you need to actually disable the integrated graphics to ensure that it doesn't get confused. I have read this before where people simply change the order of the graphics adaptors or the like, and it didn't work until they found the disable option in BIOS
BTW - I have noticed several times in the DVD build that the display seems to go to sleep (at the logical level on the PC, not the monitor's power save) part way through the untar'ing process. And you can just hit the shift key, say, and it wakes up again. Don't know what this is though, and it doesn't sound like your experience anyway. Just thought I would mention it.
I appreciate the suggestion, but I disabled the integrated video- I was able to get everything working in 0704 with the same setup using the pci-e GeForce 8500GT and having the integrated video disabled. When I get home tonight, I'm going to download the I386 dvd and see if I have more luck running at 32bits...
lightkeeper- I highly recommend you try the I386 DVD. I had a completely different experience than the AMD 64b version- the installation was smooth and transparency (UI2 w/alpha) worked out of the box with the 8500gt card.
I will have to experiment with it over the next couple days to make sure everything works at which time I will update the wiki-
If that's the case jimmejames it is more important that you log a mantis with your exact experience of the difference between the two so that it can be fixed if possible.
colinjones, I'm having the same issue that others are having with mantis in the threat your started here: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=4315.0 I've applied for a username/password but I am not receiving the confirmation email and I have yet to successfully login.
While I am not a coder, I have a variety of motherboards by various manufacturers and the time to experiment with them and would like to give back to the community as much as possible. I will try to log into mantis again and will update the wiki pages as I know more.
Feel free to pen the description for me and I will log it for you...
Quote from: jimmejames on February 16, 2008, 09:00:24 PM
lightkeeper- I highly recommend you try the I386 DVD. I had a completely different experience than the AMD 64b version-
jimmejames: Thanks for what turned out to be a key suggestion - the I386 actually made it to the wizard.
A how to "How to get started with no GUI" from dibl was very useful in getting the gui up: http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/index.php?topic=3085112.0
First, I Went back to just loading Ubuntu which I found to be more graphics friendly than Kubuntu. Got the graphics working, wrote the xorg.conf file out to a memory stick/flash dirve.
I followed the advice of jimmiejames and gave up on the LinuxMCE Install DVD for AMD64 - 0710 Beta 3 -- it seems to have problems for us - works for some I guess. Downloaded the LinuxMCE Install DVD for I386 - 0710 Beta 3 and installed from DVD. Graphics did not work initially but were easy to get going now that I had some practice.
Used CTRL+ALT+F1 to get to terminal mode. Needed to know that the default login for Linuxmce is Linuxmce, password also Linuxmce. (found this info by googleing around.)
Loaded xorg.conf file from flash drive and issued startx command.
Graphics now working working - had gui and desktop.
Downloaded nvidia drive for my graphics card.
Rebooted and used dibl's "How to get started with no GUI" to get graphics with latest nvidia driver installed.
Now have a new bunch of issues to sort out -- with LinuxMCE -- but at least I got past the blank screen on install problem.
Thanks to all the posters who helped me out - I learned a lot.
Thanks for the info- I wonder what the differences between your video card and mine are. I have the XFX GeForce 8500GT (updated the wiki: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/XFX_8500GT) that worked like the video: I put the DVD in, installed and on reboot the AVWizard worked as expected. I selected the UI2 with alpha (high setting) and haven't had an issue- no tearing.