Okay,
I'm baffled. I've been working on my linuxmce setup for a solid week now, and I cannot successfully get X10 working. I'm so happy with my setup, but I NEED to start getting my CM11a to work. Here's a little info on my system:
CORE - recommended hardware from the video page (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Video#Equipment_used_in_the_demo (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Video#Equipment_used_in_the_demo)
Generic PC as MD - working fine as a diskless MD
GC100 - to control the TV and receiver
DVD Jukebox - for my video library
Fiire Chief remote
I currently have a CM11a plugged via a USB->serial device to my Core.
*Note: I have installed heyu http://heyu.tanj.com/ (http://heyu.tanj.com/) and I'm able to control X10 <so I know the CM11a is functioning properly>
The CM11a is a child of the core and it's port is set to pci:0000....(the port that appeared when I plugged in the USB->serial adapter
When I add lights as children of the CM11a, they always show as NOT registered. (even after I have reloaded DCErouter)
My test light has A3 in the Port/Channel Number field
The CM11a seems unresponsive to any commands I fire it's way, and I have checked the log for the CM11a.
I am thinking that the problem has to do with linuxmce getting screwed up with X10 RF commands (that are sent from motion sensors or palmpad remotes) See http://smart-home-blog.com/archives/726#comments (http://smart-home-blog.com/archives/726#comments)
That site has a good workaround, but I have no idea how to implement his suggestion. Regardless, even when I make sure no RF signals are sent, the CM11a won't control my lights.
For reference, here are the links that I have been using to try and figure this out and their status:
- Original plutohome forum report of RF bugs in the CM11a wrapper http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=649.0 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=649.0)
- heyu workaround for RFs http://smart-home-blog.com/archives/726#comments (http://smart-home-blog.com/archives/726#comments) - there isn't really enough info in the post for a layman to implement the solution
- the linuxmce wiki pagehttp://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/CM11 (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/CM11)
- Forum post with the log data that I am seeing as well http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=754.0 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=754.0) (no responses to him so far)
I hope those links are helpful to someone.
My ultimate goal is to have the CM11a reliably sending commands to my X10 devices, and not getting screwed up when I use RF remotes to control the lights (the wife uses our light remotes all the time)
Looking to the future, I think linuxmce could utilize all of the work that's been done with the heyu application to really implement some sweet X10 support.
heyu supports the following (all of which I think linuxmce should support)
W800RF32 listening - This allows X10 security window/door sensors to trigger events
X10 receiving AND sending - so complex scenarios can be triggered based on motion can function.
So, let's get this X10 support working guys! :) I'd be more than willing to contribute cash if that's what it takes. LinuxMCE has blown me away when it comes to distributing media, and I think strong X10 support could really increase the projects visibility.
The port needs to be /dev/ttyUSB0 or similar.
And by the way, I tried to get X10 working but the delay in linuxmce was so long that it became ridiculous - lights turning on 30 secs after you issue the command etc. I am now using misterhouse on a separate PC.
Chris
Hmm. I've checked the port. The only ports I have available are
/dev/ttyS0
/dev/ttyS1
(both of those don't physically exist, because this motherboard needs an add-on)
/dev/ttyS_72_0 (I'm pretty sure this is the gc100's serial port, because it wasn't showing up in the menu until I added it)
pci0000:00/0000:00:0b.0+3 (I'm pretty sure this is the USB-> serial adapter, because it goes away when I unplug mine.)
So, any suggestions on how to specify /dev/ttyUSB0 since the COM port is a drop down field (not text entry)
Quote from: dnadeau on October 21, 2007, 04:00:33 PM
Hmm. I've checked the port. The only ports I have available are
/dev/ttyS0
/dev/ttyS1
(both of those don't physically exist, because this motherboard needs an add-on)
/dev/ttyS_72_0 (I'm pretty sure this is the gc100's serial port, because it wasn't showing up in the menu until I added it)
pci0000:00/0000:00:0b.0+3 (I'm pretty sure this is the USB-> serial adapter, because it goes away when I unplug mine.)
So, any suggestions on how to specify /dev/ttyUSB0 since the COM port is a drop down field (not text entry)
Just select
pci0000:00/0000:00:0b.0+3 that worked for me when I used it with a USB-serial adapter. I have no experience with the X10 RF stuff. You may need to go through the setup wizard again to set things up finally. At least for some reason I had to the last time I set it up.
Have experienced the same issues. Tried all your referenced resources. Could not get X10 working reliably. Punted and went back to Misterhouse.
Zaerc, I tried your suggestion.
1. Deleted all relevant devices
2. Went back through the install steps.
Still not working at all. Funny that linuxmce's core is plutohome which pitches itself as home automation software, yet that's the stuff I'm having the most problems with.
Let's get this fixed. Please let me know what I can do.
As an alternative to the CM11a, I've been working with the Insteon PLC, which supports X10 messaging. I haven't delved into sending X10 commands, yet, but I expect to do so once I get the Insteon functionality set. Right now, I've got pretty solid unidirectional Insteon communication, and I can control lights from LMCE. I'm kind of holding right now waiting for the SVN server and sqlcvs (or another way to capture database changes), but once that's in place, I'd like to do some testing with people that have more Insteon devices than my small number of modules.
So while the current home automation portion of LMCE needs some work (as do most parts), it is being worked.
PeteK, are you going to implement bi-directional communication? This is one of the many things that irritates me slightly about the current ZWave implementation...that, and there is no intelligent queuing of commands...basically, if I tell a room's lights to all change (i.e. from a scenario, or from my gyromote... it should tell the computer interface to group those commands together to do them all at once instead of sending each individual command one at a time... the whole ripple effect is VERY noticeable....)
-Thom
My main irritation with the Zwave implementation is that there is no feedback from the lights themselves into Pluto, so If I change a light at the switch or with another remote, LMCE doesn't have the correct light level. This definitely requires bi-directional communications. It looks like the hooks were put into the Zwave code for this, but it wasn't fully implemented.
Insteon supports the concept of "groups," which does exactly what you want. Once devices are linked together to a controller, a single group command can be sent from the controller, and all devices in that group will respond simultaneously. This will require some changes to the Pluto lighting modules, so my next step will be trying to figure out how to put that in.
The two way communications in ZWave is constrained by a patent held by Lutron. Even though the system can monitor and display status of the lights the patent prevent implementation. Leviton came up with a work-around and got sued by Lutron withing days of shipping. Thise are big players ($1B+) and can afford the lawyers to play the game. Pluto and the small players in this market would just be crushed to step into those problems. The Leviton implementation could be rolled into LMCE but not without complicated NDA's and restricted software. Perhaps this will change (there are some new enhancements ZWave stack) but they won't happen real fast.
my z-wave controller ALSO has the concept of groups, and when i toggle groups on the master controller, they go on and off smoothly.... we need to find a way to get this into pluto intelligently...
-Thom
of course, now this basically just makes me want to work with a handful of engineers to come up with a wifi enabled home automation buss. who's with me?
-Thom
Well, Zigbee is sort of the big competitor to Zwave, though I think its residential penetration is lower. It's an actual IEEE standard, which means I have options for developers kits that cost hundreds of dollars, as opposed to the multi-thousand dollar ($5K?) Zensys dev. kit.
WiFi uses too much power and overhead for home automation. And the networking issues talking to light switches would drive most homeowners bonkers.
ZigBee hasn't made much headway into the residential market. It was too scattered and the products really don't inter-operate yet. They even chose to support both 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz to ensure product incompatibility. And IEEE standard can mean never finished (is that what the n in 802.11n stands for?).
The best system architecture is Lonworks. It runs on wired networks and powerline. Has sufficient reliability to work for helicopters and the chips are cheap. Its also an open standard. But no wireless solution yet. There are proprietary links people have done using Bluetooth but none that are really good. You can find out more here: www.echelon.com There are others to look at but most are limited and specialized.
Success in this doesn't come from best technology, but from best marketing. Zensys marketed like crazy to all of the big players.
yup very intriguing.. so i guess... if we can't get zwave to play nice, it's either Insteon, or Zigbee...because we damned sure don't have EIB over here in the states, which _REALLY SUCKS_ .....
So basically, we can't implement two-way communication AT ALL on any of these systems because of the patent?
I wanna fucking scream.
-Thom
Basically, what I want is an OPEN, RELIABLE standard for implementing home automation signaling.. and something tells me that Echelon is wayy too proprietary. Is this too much to ask?
-Thom
Hi,
I am also interesting in developing some hardware to work with LMCE. I am currently just getting started in some basic stuff to control relays and read temperatures/light levels etc. It is currently all based around RS485 wired networks an uses a simple serial interface. I dont see any reason why this simple serial approach cant be migrated to use a wireless based system.
I really think the advantage that X10 etc have is cost. The lamp/appliance modules are cheap. Any form of WIFI/ZIG or other heavy system is going to impact the cost of each module. We need to find a way to do this that wont cost 100s per unit.
Insteon isn't bad. It's about $35-45/module. It does have bi-directional communications capability, and they have some neat hand-held controls as well.
i can't wait until the tablets/umpc's come down in price and I can put em on walls near doorways, on coffee table etc... ;-)
-Thom
Quote from: 1audio on October 23, 2007, 05:55:20 PM
The two way communications in ZWave is constrained by a patent held by Lutron. Even though the system can monitor and display status of the lights the patent prevent implementation. Leviton came up with a work-around and got sued by Lutron withing days of shipping. Thise are big players ($1B+) and can afford the lawyers to play the game. Pluto and the small players in this market would just be crushed to step into those problems. The Leviton implementation could be rolled into LMCE but not without complicated NDA's and restricted software. Perhaps this will change (there are some new enhancements ZWave stack) but they won't happen real fast.
Wow, screw that! With all it's problems and now these ludicris restrictions as well, I think ZWave is becomming less and less interesting. For now I'll be sticking with X10, as I doubt anybody will get sued for implementing bi-directional support with that...
Isn't there any open system that actually welcomes third party development/support?
Paul asked me to work on the Insteon stuff because he got a lot of requests for it, so I'm guessing it's fairly popular. They do publish their interface and also have an IDE for the software that actually runs on the moduels, which is pretty cool. Their support kind of sucks, but the products seem pretty neat, even with a few quirks.
what quirks?
-Thom
I setup CM11 and test it with TM13U. It works perfectly :) But IMHO X10 is not a choice for professional installation. Z-Wave or ZigBee are more appropriate technologies.
Quote from: tschak909 on October 23, 2007, 10:11:24 PM
what quirks?
-Thom
The most annoying one I've found so far is that you can't control the ramp rate when setting the level for an individual light. The only way to consistently control ramp rate is to create a group for that light, which involves overhead, and I'm not sure how well it scales. Linking devices and creating groups is a somewhat cumbersome process, as the software driver has to push bytes out to each device's eeprom to program it.
Another issue I've run across is that several commands in the command table exist only on paper. They haven't been implemented in any devices shipping so far. Of course, some of those commands are supposed to address the issues above....
It's sad to hear all the bad talk of X10. For those of us who have nice X10 installs, are we just out of luck when it comes to good CM11A and RF integration in linuxmce? When it comes to price, X10 is still by far the best choice. Besides, you can get this signalinc repeater http://www.smarthome.com/4826a.html (http://www.smarthome.com/4826a.html) from Smarthome.com for about $80 and I've found it makes a simple X10 setup with 20 modules very reliable.
QuoteIsn't there any open system that actually welcomes third party development/support?
Lonworks is as close as you will get. And outside of the US there is a lot of hardware options. Far more that anyone else. Some is expensive ($600 light switches w/ LCD displays) but there are accessible solutions. Its the US thats a wasteland for this stuff. As for a lot of other technology. In a way the posterchild for failed free markets (like the backwards Cell phone systems and the monopoly cable/sat content providers etc.). I can possibly get you dev info for Lonworks/Echelon if you are interested. I'd like to see it supported. And they have all the two way communications etc. you could want.
IMHO its about time a truely open solution was created/adapted. One that is portable to different mediums so it will work well over twisted pair, powerline and wireless.
EIB/KNX has this potential but its all tied up so only the big boys can play and license the stuff. At the end of the day we are only talking about relatively simple messaging with 2 way features. We need something that developers can work with with simple hardware and that can be scaled up as required.
The simplicity of X10 and its low cost is great but the limitations it has can be very frustrating.
When you say that licensing restrictions mean no 2-way communications, are you saying that for LMCE to send a command and then poll the device to check it has been received is not allowed? Or do you mean something else?
Regards,
Chris
BUMP!!
This thread is kinda old...so i'm re-asking this question. Anybody got X10 working in LMCE yet??
I have, using the new CM11A code. Triggering lights from the floorplan is pretty quick and reliable, however it is not possible to create very advanced rules. For example I was not able to create a rule to turn a light on when I enter a room if it's night AND media is not being watched in a room AND the house is not in sleep mode. See this thread: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=4716.msg29080#msg29080