Author Topic: Alarm question?  (Read 4193 times)

dh

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Alarm question?
« on: April 21, 2010, 06:37:52 am »
Looking for an alarm system that will be LinuxMCE compatible.  Unfortunately, it seems that Honeywell has changed their support of VistaICM.

http://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/products/wiring/ic/92291.html

I'm curious to know if this has been addressed/fixed or is even a significant issue?

Dh

davidsmoot

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2010, 06:45:20 pm »
Bump only because I am interested too.  I've looked at the Wiki and tried some google searches but no luck.  I'm willing to write drivers to do the connection into MCE but I'm having trouble finding alarm systems that have an output of RS232/ Z-wave / TCP-IP to even make the connection.  The only thing I could find in the wiki is the Honeywell documentation that is now being obsoleted. 
David

trentend

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2010, 07:48:57 pm »
I was going to use a Comfort alarm with KNX, but I don't really need an approved alarm so now intend to use some spare inputs (KNX as it happens) and LinuxMCE as my alarm system.

It all rather depends what sort of control you need.  There are a range of options from a standard alarm panel with a switched output to indicate just an alarm condition, through a system designed to integrate with other standards (like the comfort system), to specific integrated systems (like this Jung KNX integrated alarm system), to a series of discrete devices that perform specific functions without a de-facto control panel (KNX is very good for this sort of stuff, given that it is so highly integrated across device types).

It comes down to what you need in terms of an authorised system, the control over the system, and how the system integrates with other devices.

As an example at either end of the extremes: For my smoke/heat detection I have a standard panel that works in an approved way.  It communicates an alarm condition via an output relay that it sets when triggered (and some very high pitched internal sounders to awaken any occupants) which is monitored by a KNX input. The only remote control I have is to be able to switch it off, or reset it via KNX (and hopefully via LinuxMCE KNX control) by usung output relays to interrupt the battery and mains power supplies.  On the other hand my security/intrusion alarm system is a set of contacts and pir's connected to KNX inputs that require LinuxMCE (or some other control software) to integrate it into a system - there is a much higher level of control over individual devices though.


brake16

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 10:30:56 pm »
Well, that officially sucks.  I was going to use the Vista ICM as an integral part of my alarm system in my rebuilt house this summer (I had a fire last fall). 

Does anybody have any experience with any other methods of hooking up alarm panels to lmce?

Alternatively, I'd be willing to purchase a similar unit and ship it to someone willing to try to make it work.  I'd just need some guidance on which unit has a relatively decent shot at it.  Some guesses based on the searches I've done that past few days are:
Vista 21iP kit (http://www.securitystoreusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=1882913)
VM101BAT (http://www.myvirtualmonitoring.com/virtualapa.htm)

Any reason why these won't work?

B
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davidsmoot

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2010, 08:21:35 pm »
I've been poking around at the micasaverde.com site and stumbled across a post for a fairly inexpensive alarm system from GE that has an RS232 adapter available.  http://www.homesecuritystore.com/p-175-80-860-4-concord-4-wireless-alarm-kit.aspx and if you click on the accessories there is a 232 adapter and the protocol can be downloaded from GE's site.  Have not bought it yet but thinking about it.  Need to learn a little more.

los93sol

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2010, 01:59:58 am »
I wrote drivers that support the entire Omni series of home automation panels from HAI.  These panels are tightly integrated and fully plug and play.  Please search the development forum for details of this hardware and LinuxMCE.  This code is available in SVN now and is still being enhanced.  PM me if you'd like to make a donation.

-Adam

los93sol

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2010, 05:49:54 am »
There seemed to be a lot of interest in this until I brought up that there is a panel available worldwide that is fully supported then the discussion stopped?  Anyone want to test this stuff?

totallymaxed

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2010, 10:00:06 am »
There seemed to be a lot of interest in this until I brought up that there is a panel available worldwide that is fully supported then the discussion stopped?  Anyone want to test this stuff?

You have done some great work on the HAI/Omni panels and how they integrate into the system. We have looked over the code here and have been waiting for several customer projects to get to the stage where we can schedule some development time on our side to test some integration (with Dianemo that is). You'll be the first to know when we get to the next phase on one of these!

So don't be disheartened by what appears to be a slow pickup on this - thanks for all your great work on the Omni device.

All the best


Andrew
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totallymaxed

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2010, 10:01:59 am »
Looking for an alarm system that will be LinuxMCE compatible.  Unfortunately, it seems that Honeywell has changed their support of VistaICM.

http://www.security.honeywell.com/hsc/products/wiring/ic/92291.html

I'm curious to know if this has been addressed/fixed or is even a significant issue?

Dh

I would most definitely recommend going with los93sol's HAI/Omni alarm panel integration - its what we plan to use on several customer projects in the future.

All the best


Andrew
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brake16

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2010, 06:02:53 pm »
Adam

I'm not ignoring it, just trying to check it out.  I couldn't find much on the boards about the development (maybe most of your communication about it was on the chat channel?).  From what I'm reading online, there's very little DIY support for HAI (unlike the Honeywell panels), official or unofficial.  So it's taking me longer to see if I can get the setup I need. 

My needs, initially, are to add heat detectors to my house (kitchen, garage, attic).  I'd like to get the guts of an alarm system in with that, and then add capabilities as funds/time are available.  With HAI, it looks like I need the following:

Omni LT panel, $378 (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/HAI/Item/21A001/)
Wireless Receiver for GE Systems, $342 (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/HAI/Item/42A00-2/)
Wireless heat detectors, 3 ea @ $63 (https://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/gesecurity/Item/60-460-319.5/)
GC-100, $140-300
various bits (mounting bracket, back-up battery)

Things I'm not clear about:
Do I need to use the GC-100, or will HAI's serial/DB-9F cable connect the panel to the core?
How does the panel call out to the monitoring station?  And is it designed for only one provider/monitoring station or can I contract out to others?
(yes, I know lmce will call me, but if I'm going to have this much of an alarm system installed, I might as well finish off the little things that will get me an insurance discount...and make my wife happy).

I'm also sensing that I may have to get the Omni IIe instead of the LT, for an extra $600, if I want to be able to add all the door strikes and window sensors.  Overall, the Omni system is more expensive.  Although it does look like it's a higher-end product altogether.  To me, it kinda feels like it was designed by Apple:  really nice, higher priced, and maybe not as flexible.

I'm still trying to piece it all together.  Work/life/house rebuilding keep getting in the way.

Bryce
The Second Empirical Law of Lasers is to not look into the beam with your remaining good eye  - Anonymous

totallymaxed

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2010, 01:55:54 am »
Adam

I'm not ignoring it, just trying to check it out.  I couldn't find much on the boards about the development (maybe most of your communication about it was on the chat channel?).  From what I'm reading online, there's very little DIY support for HAI (unlike the Honeywell panels), official or unofficial.  So it's taking me longer to see if I can get the setup I need. 

My needs, initially, are to add heat detectors to my house (kitchen, garage, attic).  I'd like to get the guts of an alarm system in with that, and then add capabilities as funds/time are available.  With HAI, it looks like I need the following:

Omni LT panel, $378 (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/HAI/Item/21A001/)
Wireless Receiver for GE Systems, $342 (http://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/HAI/Item/42A00-2/)
Wireless heat detectors, 3 ea @ $63 (https://www.smarthomeusa.com/ShopByManufacturer/gesecurity/Item/60-460-319.5/)
GC-100, $140-300
various bits (mounting bracket, back-up battery)

Things I'm not clear about:
Do I need to use the GC-100, or will HAI's serial/DB-9F cable connect the panel to the core?
How does the panel call out to the monitoring station?  And is it designed for only one provider/monitoring station or can I contract out to others?
(yes, I know lmce will call me, but if I'm going to have this much of an alarm system installed, I might as well finish off the little things that will get me an insurance discount...and make my wife happy).

I'm also sensing that I may have to get the Omni IIe instead of the LT, for an extra $600, if I want to be able to add all the door strikes and window sensors.  Overall, the Omni system is more expensive.  Although it does look like it's a higher-end product altogether.  To me, it kinda feels like it was designed by Apple:  really nice, higher priced, and maybe not as flexible.

I'm still trying to piece it all together.  Work/life/house rebuilding keep getting in the way.

Bryce


My understanding direct from Honeywell is that the ICM module has been discontinued and that the Vista line of panels is also going to be discontinued too. No real understanding of why that is however.

From what I understand of what los93sol has achieved with the Omni it really goes far beyond what we ever had previously and further it is under active development whereas the Vista range has not been for some time now.

All the best


Andrew
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

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brake16

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2010, 10:12:19 pm »
Good Morning

Okay, from what I've seen, Vista discontinued the ICM because they've released the Vista 21IP panel.  This has the ethernet port built-in:

Quote
Internet alarm reporting and uploading/downloading capability via on-board AlarmNet Internet Communicator.

Does anybody know if this speaks the same language as the Vista ICM, would it need a separate template built, or does it only communicate with a predefined monitoring service?  Unfortunately, nobody makes things very clear.

Thanks
Bryce
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los93sol

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2010, 11:00:32 pm »
I would have doubts about whether or not it will work out of the box, contact honeywell and see if it's using the same protocol as the VistaICM.  They probably won't say, but you never know.  Worst case scenario you can grab one and work with us to assist you in getting it working.  Since there are already several good examples of alarm panel devices, it should make a good starter project for you.

valent

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2010, 02:17:59 pm »
I wrote drivers that support the entire Omni series of home automation panels from HAI.  These panels are tightly integrated and fully plug and play.  Please search the development forum for details of this hardware and LinuxMCE.  This code is available in SVN now and is still being enhanced.  PM me if you'd like to make a donation.

-Adam

I'm making plans for integrating alarm system in my current place and also for new house. Do all HAI Omni panels work also in Europe or are they somehow specific to US (voltage?) ?

What is the list of devices that I can buy and be sure they will work with LinuxMCE after I buy drivers from you? Have you thought about working together with LinuxMCE compatible so that compatible devices are shown there and also in LinuxMCE wiki?


Cheers,

Valent.
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brake16

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Re: Alarm question?
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2010, 09:36:05 pm »
Heads up for those considering the Honeywell Vista 21IP panel as a substitute for the ICM:  using the ethernet port on the 21IP requires a monthly subscription to the AlarmNet monitoring service and an upgrade to the TotalConnect package.  No idea how much it is, but it's a nonstarter for me since AlarmNet doesn't cover my area.

To recap: the discontinued and unavailable ICM allowed local ethernet access.  The 21IP requires a paid subscription to access the panel through the internet.  http://www.diyalarmforum.com/board/index.php?topic=5491.0

Since none of the rest of the Vista line has been discontinued, I see this as an attempted money-grab by Honeywell, trying to force new purchasers to use their monitoring service.  Unfortunately, it also kicks the diy self-monitoring crowd right in the teeth.

I guess I'll see if there's any sort of unofficial diy support for Omni.  I'm not crazy about dropping $2k+ on a system from a company that's hostile to the diy community.

brake16
The Second Empirical Law of Lasers is to not look into the beam with your remaining good eye  - Anonymous