Author Topic: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server  (Read 2752 times)

micklen

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**Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« on: April 07, 2010, 12:07:18 pm »
Hi
I have followed the progress of LinuxMCE for a couple of years now.I am a totally noob when i comes to Linux so i have't really got in to LMCE. But now I can hold back my eager to learn how to build any more. I would like to try  put up my first complete system. I'm building a new house so I can do all adjustments that's needed to totally automate!! (as much as possible) :) Will use about 30 X10 devices. [DIN sockets] to start with. I got me a full hight Rittal Rack, were I can  put all the gears. ::)

So I finally will start to build my 1st Coreserver. 
Now would I need you gurus to give me some advices and input how to build an Ultimate core server!

To start with have bought a Koolance 4u rack chassi. [watercooled]
and pre orded the following mobo Gigabyte GA-M720-US3 via an AMD Athlon2 X3 435 2,9Ghz, AM3,

Do anyone any experence of this CPU and mobo togeher with LMCE?

I'm not sure what kind of storage I gone use. I planned to have an parallel windows environment running on an separate ESXi server.
So It would be great to have an ISCSI solution.

Is it possible to integrate FreeNAS in LMCE?
And then from the ESXI server run the virtual disks at the core server?
Or maybe it's better to have a separate storage server/solution?

Please advice an linux noob as me!





vbman1

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2010, 04:53:34 am »
Quote
To start with have bought a Koolance 4u rack chassi. [watercooled]
and pre orded the following mobo Gigabyte GA-M720-US3 via an AMD Athlon2 X3 435 2,9Ghz, AM3,

That will work, HOWEVER!!! DO NOT use ATI For Graphics for the MDs. your better off using NVIDIA!

Quote
Is it possible to integrate FreeNAS in LinuxMCE?
And then from the ESXI server run the virtual disks at the core server?
Or maybe it's better to have a separate storage server/solution?

I would recommend a second rackmount case with a couple of hard drives and freenas thrown on that, in FREENas, setup SMB access  and configure your shares in freenas web admin...  LinuxMCE Will detect it and set it up

micklen

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2010, 08:54:11 am »
I would like to keep servers to a minimal because of high electric bills and the environment impact. They will be running 24-7  :-[
So the best option to have a separate server for storage?

Then will i  have one server for 1wire, one for ESXi and one the LinuxMCE core server plus one for storage!

Is't there a way to use the core server as NAS with ISCSI?
Or should I run FreeNAS virtual on the ESX server?

Please advice!


« Last Edit: April 09, 2010, 09:44:19 am by micklen »

wierdbeard65

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2010, 10:08:55 am »
I'm not sure you have fully understood the way the system works...!

First up, why all the virualization? More complexity! Also, what's with the "one server for 1 wire" for?

NAS allows you to store your media remotely, should you wish. This could be, for example, for fault-tolerance or network performance. You can equally put your storeage in the core. If you virtualize, you have all your "eggs in one basket" anyway, so why bother?

Or maybe I misunderstand your needs?
Paul
If you have the time to help, please see where I have got to at: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Wierdbeard65

micklen

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2010, 11:36:35 am »
the ESX server is basically an windows server sandbox.

the reason that I choosed a standalone server for 1wire was simply tha tit was not supported by linuxMCE and that I don't want to put all eggs in on basket  ::)
Plan to build a massive 1wire system that feed an database. So if I need to take down the core server will I loose data from the 1wire micro lan.

Think I put all disks in the esx server and make a share on that server.

any opinions?

davidsmoot

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2010, 05:47:09 pm »
Do you mean 1-wire like http://www.maxim-ic.com/products/1-wire/?  What the heck are doing with a 1 wire "micro lan"?  Sounds very nerdy and very interesting...

Linux does support 1-wire but I don't know about LMCE. http://owfs.org/

Tell us more

grind

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2010, 10:11:42 pm »
Hey Micklen,
this is my Setup:

- NAS running Opensolaris on an Atom 330 and has 4 x 1,5TB drives. Here i setup all the CIFS-Shares, Exports or iSCSI-LUNs as needed.
- One Core-Server
- And one ESXi

I am also going to use 1-Wire but i think i'll connect it to the Core. But this has to wait until my flat has been finished and then i will have enough time for that.
You can also have a look at http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9814.0

Regards,
Grind

trentend

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 10:25:54 pm »
1-wire is a very well established, resilient, and scalable standard for networking sensors.  I have a weather station and some temperature sensors, a humidity sensor, and a pressure sensor.  This shows you how to put together a network.

The sensors require a very simple wiring (I use 1 cat5) topology, are individually addressable, and are cheap enough to dot them around where you need them (monitor temperatures in server cabinet, humidity in bathrooms, temperatures in rooms, etc.).  A lot of people use them for environmental monitoring in gardens (for greenhouses and the suchlike), to trigger remote watering of plants, and there is significant usage of weather stations (they work out amongst the cheapest options for integrating with computer systems).

Because of the simplicity of the wiring scheme it's very easy to add additional sensors.  Combined with an optical coupler (to reduce potential damage to connected computers) they are a very flexible and resilient method of dispersed environmental monitoring.

I know that they are not well integrated with LinucMCE. That's one of the areas I will be looking at when I have my system up and running.  Initially I'm using an NSLU2 to log data and hopefully it's just a question of querying the database log from LinuxMCE.

tschak909

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2010, 12:24:48 am »
unfortunately, trentend, I do have one caveat you must keep in mind...

The Device database is designed to deal with databases and setups that OTHER PEOPLE CAN USE.

I will have a very hard time accepting changes for a setup that will only work in your case.

-Thom

trentend

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 12:30:07 am »
unfortunately, trentend, I do have one caveat you must keep in mind...

The Device database is designed to deal with databases and setups that OTHER PEOPLE CAN USE.

I will have a very hard time accepting changes for a setup that will only work in your case.

-Thom

Understood.  I'll have to discuss the detail with you when I'm working on that part of my setup. Don't hold your breath. ;)

micklen

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2010, 10:11:05 am »
My server building project have been halted because I can't find any PSU fint my chassi. Need one where the air can pass through the PSU.
[From the side with the modulare cables are to the backside. Have a look at pic to undersand how the air passes through the chassi.]
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/images/more/rm2-4u_p4.jpg

Need to have a meshed PSU or a dual 80mm fans  PSU. Seams that the have disappeared from the market. >:(

Any Ideas?



gunsmoke

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2010, 10:15:42 pm »
My server building project have been halted because I can't find any PSU fint my chassi. Need one where the air can pass through the PSU.
[From the side with the modulare cables are to the backside. Have a look at pic to undersand how the air passes through the chassi.]
http://www.koolance.com/water-cooling/images/more/rm2-4u_p4.jpg

Need to have a meshed PSU or a dual 80mm fans  PSU. Seams that the have disappeared from the market. >:(

Looks like your chassi, route the cooling from the bottom of the chassi, up trough PCU and exit at the rear. This will minimise heat emission from the PSU to the system itself. This could be a plus or bad thing, resting on the settup for the rest of the cabinet, airflow etc. If you have room for a couple of 120mm fans in front, it would do good.

I would requmend Seasonic for server/mediaPC, due to low noice(using 120mm fan that runs on less than 1000rpm). I use 2 at 350W and one that is 380W. On system that are low on wattage, like core2 duo E-series etc, they do a great job. There is also a 430w unit, if you have like 4xhdd in raid/lots of tuner card etc. Look here http://www.seasonic.com/product/pc_retail.jsp and http://cgi.ebay.com/Seasonic-S12-II-SS-380GB-380W-ATX12V-Power-Supply-/320513441863?cmd=ViewItem&pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item4aa0170047

These units give good stable ouput, inspite of low wattage off these unit.

Go for aS12-II units, I am currently using the 380W unit like in the link....


Good luck
HTPC HARDWARE: Gigabyte E7AUM-DS2H, Onboard video 9400, mATX, Socket LGA775. Intel Core2 Duo E8400. Samsung SpinPoint SATA2 HD 1000GB. Corsair 2x2GB DDR2. NEC DVD+/-RW ND4551A. Seasonic S12-330; +3.3v/20A. BIOS: v3.7

micklen

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #12 on: May 06, 2010, 02:58:09 pm »
Got some new gadget to my new LinuxMCE system!
Manage to get a cheapo UPS and autoloader[Powervault 120 DLT] today.

Just wonder if there is any good backup software for linux that I could use! Like retrospect? Would like to have the autoloader with the core server!
Is there anyone out there that already tried it together with a core server?

//micklen


klovell

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2010, 09:10:37 pm »
micklen I don't know if this is to late but I'm using an athlon 5000 at 2.6ghz and i'm not overly happy with performance.  Currently I'm only doing media on 4 mds and it's not as great as I'd like.  You'll have one whole core and .3 ghz more than me but i was thinking of something in the quad core department for my next core build.  Well... as long as I'm not forced to build out a new core before my wife and I start shopping for our next house (1-2 years) i will be shooting for a dual quad core setup in the 3.0ghz department.  I plan on doing the x10 through out, cameras, alarm, and a md in every room so I want something beefy.  My core now is okay for a general end user, someone with a small amount of mds not looking to get to fancy.   I don't know if this is normal but adding a md is like a major system change that usually requires me to restart the core and A quick reload isn't always quick.  Boot time for the mds and core is also pretty long, about 5 mins for the core.  You sound like a geek like me, you may want something beefier like me. 

Also if I were you i wouldn't put my core and nas on the same server, lmce, windows, or whatever that is never a good idea.  The core is a server and you usually don't want your server doing a hundred different things when it doesn't have to.  When I first setup my core I had a weak moment and the thought crossed my mind.  That was before i did my first file transfer while watching a movie.  The video was playing from the hd in the core then i started copying a different movie to the core to watch next.  The one i was watching started skipping the second i started the transfer and this was at lan speeds on a full gig network.  I've used freenas and it's not my number one choice but it's better than dumping files directly on the core.  You have a full rack, get a 4 or 5 U case and start your nas with that.  Eventually you'll run out of space but with a dedicated 4U nas you can add more drives and raid controllers as needed.  This would apply to your backups also, I would look for a solution that would backup lmce remotely.  I like to think bigger.  Why backup just lmce when you can backup everything on your network, do you really want your core backing up every computer on your network? I don't think so .

Don’t virtualize anything!! I’m all for virtualization, I have a dedicated vmware server on my network but I wouldn’t use it here.  Your Nas is going to use a decent amount of cpu time, it will create a lot of IO and network traffic.  I have not gotten around to checking yet but I’d be shocked if the core didn’t use a decent amount of ram and I’m sure it’s generating a fair share of IO and network traffic.  Your 3 cores won’t be enough to power the core, nas and what ever else you have on there… well not to my standards anyway, if you’re cool with it run with it.  I hate waiting on computers; I feel that we’re too far along for that.  Now I don’t know you, if you have the resources to drop $5k-$10K on a server that can handle virtualizing a nas device do it, we all need to do our part in protecting the environment. I personally don’t care much about the electric bill (my network is more important) and I help the environment in other ways so I have dedicated servers.  On that note I have 6 physical servers running 24/7 plus at any given time there is usually a light on some where in my house (my wife and I suck at conserving power) and the electric bill is only around $150-175 per month.  I don’t think that’s a bad price at all especially since all power saving and efficiency settings on the servers are turned off. 

That’s my 2 cents; I wish some one told me what I just told you before I bought my core.  It was between the one I have and a quad core but I read the wiki which said a p4 or something and I figured the AMD 5000 would be enough.  I really think the requirements in the wiki needs to be adjusted.  I don't understand how you can run this thing on a p3!!





















micklen

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Re: **Need Input** Newbie building [Hard]core server
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2010, 10:23:53 pm »
micklen I don't know if this is to late but I'm using an athlon 5000 at 2.6ghz and i'm not overly happy with performance.  Currently I'm only doing media on 4 mds and it's not as great as I'd like.  You'll have one whole core and .3 ghz more than me but i was thinking of something in the quad core department for my next core build.  Well... as long as I'm not forced to build out a new core before my wife and I start shopping for our next house (1-2 years) i will be shooting for a dual quad core setup in the 3.0ghz department.  I plan on doing the x10 through out, cameras, alarm, and a md in every room so I want something beefy.  My core now is okay for a general end user, someone with a small amount of mds not looking to get to fancy.   I don't know if this is normal but adding a md is like a major system change that usually requires me to restart the core and A quick reload isn't always quick.  Boot time for the mds and core is also pretty long, about 5 mins for the core.  You sound like a geek like me, you may want something beefier like me. 

Also if I were you i wouldn't put my core and nas on the same server, lmce, windows, or whatever that is never a good idea.  The core is a server and you usually don't want your server doing a hundred different things when it doesn't have to.  When I first setup my core I had a weak moment and the thought crossed my mind.  That was before i did my first file transfer while watching a movie.  The video was playing from the hd in the core then i started copying a different movie to the core to watch next.  The one i was watching started skipping the second i started the transfer and this was at lan speeds on a full gig network.  I've used freenas and it's not my number one choice but it's better than dumping files directly on the core.  You have a full rack, get a 4 or 5 U case and start your nas with that.  Eventually you'll run out of space but with a dedicated 4U nas you can add more drives and raid controllers as needed.  This would apply to your backups also, I would look for a solution that would backup lmce remotely.  I like to think bigger.  Why backup just lmce when you can backup everything on your network, do you really want your core backing up every computer on your network? I don't think so .

Don’t virtualize anything!! I’m all for virtualization, I have a dedicated vmware server on my network but I wouldn’t use it here.  Your Nas is going to use a decent amount of cpu time, it will create a lot of IO and network traffic.  I have not gotten around to checking yet but I’d be shocked if the core didn’t use a decent amount of ram and I’m sure it’s generating a fair share of IO and network traffic.  Your 3 cores won’t be enough to power the core, nas and what ever else you have on there… well not to my standards anyway, if you’re cool with it run with it.  I hate waiting on computers; I feel that we’re too far along for that.  Now I don’t know you, if you have the resources to drop $5k-$10K on a server that can handle virtualizing a nas device do it, we all need to do our part in protecting the environment. I personally don’t care much about the electric bill (my network is more important) and I help the environment in other ways so I have dedicated servers.  On that note I have 6 physical servers running 24/7 plus at any given time there is usually a light on some where in my house (my wife and I suck at conserving power) and the electric bill is only around $150-175 per month.  I don’t think that’s a bad price at all especially since all power saving and efficiency settings on the servers are turned off. 

That’s my 2 cents; I wish some one told me what I just told you before I bought my core.  It was between the one I have and a quad core but I read the wiki which said a p4 or something and I figured the AMD 5000 would be enough.  I really think the requirements in the wiki needs to be adjusted.  I don't understand how you can run this thing on a p3!!
























Thanx klovell for the replay!
Think it's the longest replay I ever got in a forum!!!
Got your point, to have a smooth running system when you running media applications you need at storage solution that meet your expectations regarding  performance/latencies. Flicking movies and long start times is not anything that I wish.

What you also underlined is that got NAS performance needs a lot of CPU!
Hopefully will I unlock the forth core on my 3x core cpu. But come on.. 4x 2.MHz...  wouldn't that be enough ? For the core server! I would lie to be able to stream to at least 4 MD at the same time.
But to clarify ... I plan to use my HP Proliant 150 ML as host for the virtual machines. I know it's not a speed demon. But I hope it will be enough for 2 or 3 windows servers + FreeNas.  I have a 4 core 2.2 MHz AMD Opteron and 4 GBit of ram.

Please advice and share your experience !


Btw I have trouble to get in the gadgets in the rack cabinet. I got 80cm (31.5") and the dell keyboard drawer I got is for a 90/100 deep server rack.
Anyone that know where to get rack bits 'n' pieces?


//micklen