Author Topic: Best Automation type to implement  (Read 1756 times)

dcubox1

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Best Automation type to implement
« on: March 25, 2010, 12:32:53 pm »
Ok so I have been making good progress with my new install (many thanks to everyone who responded to my questions)

I am now turning to the Automation side and looking at which type (x10, Insteon, etc) to implement!!
I currently have a CM15A controller and one appliance module I got off a friend for testing and these work great.

However he now wants them back so im looking at buying my own gear.
I have read a few users comments and alot seem to prefer Insteon over X10!

I can program PLC's with ladder logic so the automation side shouldnt be a problem to me but what I wanted to know
was which system has the most capabilities in the long run, regardless of how complex it is to implement?

Thanks again  ;D

davidsmoot

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2010, 02:38:02 pm »
I'm interested in this topic too.  I know some folks sell solutions here so any input appreciated.

macaroni

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2010, 06:19:50 pm »
I can program PLC's with ladder logic so the automation side shouldnt be a problem to me but what I wanted to know
was which system has the most capabilities in the long run, regardless of how complex it is to implement?

First the programming isn't like plc logic programming...it is regular software coding. Also Zwave seems to be the best supported here...then x10 and insteon a distant 3rd.

mythtified

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2010, 08:01:17 pm »
I have both X10(CM15A) and Zwave(Micasaverde Dongle) on my system.  Even though X10 is inexpensive compared to Zwave, Zwave is more reliable.  I have been slowly moving to Zwave.  I will probably keep part my X10 system to make a cheap remote control through events to control my Zwave.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 08:03:31 pm by mythtified »

twodogs

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2010, 08:29:44 pm »
dcubox1,

I'm in the same boat as you, wondering what to purchase. I looked at three protocols:
  • Insteon: Dual-mesh network, using both radio frequency signals and the home's existing electrical wiring to talk to each other. Every message is confirmed as it is received, and if any errors are detected, the message is automatically resent.
  • Z-Wave: Wireless-mesh network. Confirms messages.
  • X10 - Powerline transmission only, no message confirmation.

Seems like Insteon would be more reliable since it is dual-mesh. Looking at the contacts section of the wiki shows that people are working on Insteon implementation (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Contacts). Z-wave seems to be better supported in MCE as of now, and I don't hear of anyone complaining about wireless unreliability. X-10 seems outdated. I hope I'm not spreading disinformation - none of this is first hand knowledge.

John
http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
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skeptic

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2010, 08:48:39 pm »
My impression is ZWave is better supported so I may go that route when I get around to automation.  On paper I prefer Insteon because it's backward compatible with X10 and I could save a lot of money and/or support more devices by going with a mixture of Insteon and X10 devices.  For example, adding a switch for my boys bedroom closet lights so I can send an off signal as part of the sleep scenario just in case.  With X10 it's cheap enough to be worth it, with Zwave/Insteon maybe not.  ~$50 vs ~$15...

bongowongo

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2010, 07:19:57 am »
    * Insteon: Dual-mesh network, using both radio frequency signals and the home's existing electrical wiring to talk to each other. Every message is confirmed as it is received, and if any errors are detected, the message is automatically resent.
    * Z-Wave: Wireless-mesh network. Confirms messages.
    * X10 - Powerline transmission only, no message confirmation.
    * PLCBUS Powerline transmission only, Every message is confirmed as it is received, and if any errors are detected, the message is automatically resent. Can be made compatible with X10, fairly cheap

dcubox1

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #7 on: March 26, 2010, 10:25:55 am »
Thanks for all the posts guys, keep em coming.

Seems like the choice is down to what you regard as "good value" and if it meets your needs.
I mean there is no point investing a load of money if your requirements can be done using a cheaper system
and your not really bothered about reliability!

Have a bit of a technical question regarding some of the comments made and some research I have been doing on this stuff.
I have a few bits of kit that use RF signals like my projector screen. It has an RF remote and a receiver bux which I hid in the attic,
the thing I was wondering is, can any of the automation systems the can transmit RF signals "learn" the codes from remotes!!?

Something like this would be great as I could get rid of almost every remote I have!!

trentend

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2010, 11:25:57 am »
Nobody has mentioned KNX, which may be fair if you are not in Europe.  KNX is an excellent, robust, industrial quality system. It has cross manufacturer support and a very wide availability. Most frequently used in bus form although it also supports powerline and wireless.  I recommend it as a bus based system, I genuinely believe there is nothing better.  The disadvantage is that it is at the top end in regard to cost.

sonicwind

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2010, 08:04:23 pm »
I agree it appears ZWave is better supported by LMCE. However I chose Insteon as outside of LMCE it seems to be the best and most supported protocol (in the US). As far as I know the Insteon support is limited to lights, and I'm not sure to what degree (there are a couple of different kinds of modules as well as dimmer option.) I've got initial Insteon parts (modem, some lights, some sockets, a thermostat) and I plan to start trying out the supported features this weekend and then attempt to add thermostat and other features myself. If I have trouble I may to try to "fund" someone else to do it or assist me.
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dcubox1

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2010, 10:42:40 am »
Have a bit of a technical question regarding some of the comments made and some research I have been doing on this stuff.
I have a few bits of kit that use RF signals like my projector screen. It has an RF remote and a receiver bux which I hid in the attic,
the thing I was wondering is, can any of the automation systems the can transmit RF signals "learn" the codes from remotes!!?

Something like this would be great as I could get rid of almost every remote I have!!

Anybody got any ideas on this??

sonicwind

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2010, 04:27:39 pm »
Have a bit of a technical question regarding some of the comments made and some research I have been doing on this stuff.
I have a few bits of kit that use RF signals like my projector screen. It has an RF remote and a receiver bux which I hid in the attic,
the thing I was wondering is, can any of the automation systems the can transmit RF signals "learn" the codes from remotes!!?

Something like this would be great as I could get rid of almost every remote I have!!

Anybody got any ideas on this??

Like what is being discussed on these pages?
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Controlling_LinuxMCE
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_regular_A/V_equipment
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::Use a VGA port for first configuration:: ::Setup your network from the get-go::

dcubox1

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #12 on: March 29, 2010, 04:36:18 pm »
Like what is being discussed on these pages?
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Controlling_LinuxMCE
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_regular_A/V_equipment

No those posts all refer to IR remotes, I was asking if anyone knows of a device that can learn RF signals to replace my current RF remotes!

sonicwind

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #13 on: March 29, 2010, 04:47:01 pm »
Like what is being discussed on these pages?
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Controlling_LinuxMCE
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_regular_A/V_equipment

No those posts all refer to IR remotes, I was asking if anyone knows of a device that can learn RF signals to replace my current RF remotes!

Duh, yeah, sorry I got mixed up. I had thought I had read something about that and I was just thinking "remote". RF remotes are less common. I've never heard of anything that does what you want with RF.
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totallymaxed

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Re: Best Automation type to implement
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2010, 06:38:02 pm »
Like what is being discussed on these pages?
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Controlling_LinuxMCE
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Control_regular_A/V_equipment

No those posts all refer to IR remotes, I was asking if anyone knows of a device that can learn RF signals to replace my current RF remotes!

Both ZWave & Insteon use their own standard for RF control transmission so neither could directly control or act as a remote. I suppose theoretically you could imagine a 'gateway' that would allow you to send IR commands to an RF receiver.

All the best


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