Author Topic: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?  (Read 4528 times)

totallymaxed

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2010, 02:33:12 pm »
Sorry probably because of my bad English I am not able to make myself understood.
I think there are a few other developers, because as said in previous posts, the project is very broad and the average user does not have time to understand all parts of LinuxMCE.
The free distribution of the product would probably be more developers who could commit more time to achieve their economic ends.
That's it

Emanuele

I think your comments are obliquely 'on-topic' in fact. My company is the only company involved in the project that holds an original commercial license from Pluto Inc and can supply commercial products which inherit much of their functionality from LinuxMCE. We also contribute both new code (all under the GPL I might add) and fixes to existing code.. and we also commit a large amount of time & resources to the project & the community here to anyone who needs it. Even though we hold a commercial license we are also a big supporter, and 100% believer, in the need to take all of the LinuxMCE codebase over to the GPL and we are committing resources to that process already.

We (as in this community) agree that bringing all of the code base under the GPL is where we should be... and so we expect to move the remaining parts of the system that use the PPL over to GPL over time. There is no time scale for this as such but it is certainly something that in small ways is already underway.

In the meantime of course LinuxMCE is freely available to any individual who wants to use it for none commercial purposes.

All the best


Andrew
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jimbodude

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2010, 03:52:38 pm »
The free distribution of the product would probably be more developers who could commit more time to achieve their economic ends.

I didn't see where you were going with your original post.  Long story made short, I agree with your comment, and, as Andrew said, it's happening.  There has been some PPL to GPL re-licensing in 0810 already, and I'm glad the project is moving in that direction.

rages

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2010, 05:36:47 pm »
Hello Andrew, I think everyone recognizes the support that you and your company provided to LinuxMCE, what I've just written makes me very happy.

Emanuele

tschak909

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2010, 05:40:41 pm »
I am glad that totallymaxed has donated his time and effort, since the beginning. :)

However, this thread is becoming slightly hijacked.

We need people who are interested to dig into the system and start fixing existing features, and working on new code.

-Thom

klovell

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2010, 06:37:25 pm »
hmmm... I know I'm the new guy here, and I'm not trying to step on toes, especially since I really need all the help i can get to jump into lmce.  Do you realize what you're asking of people?  Not everyone has what it takes to be a programmer.  I have endless respect for anyone who can pull off that career!!  I've been in IT for about 14 years and I'm pretty good at what i do from a sys admin role but programming is a whole other beast.  your original post is like saying Jane Dow has been a nurse for 10 years, Why isn't she doing open heart surgery? That's how i took it anyways.  Coding is something you either went to school for or you've been doing your whole life.   

Again, I'm sorry if i took your post out of context.  Maybe that's why you put it in the developer section, maybe you were only talking to known developers on this site.  If that's the case forget everything i said but If you're really expecting the average Joe like me, who only knows enough to set this thing up with advice and guidance from others to start coding... that's a little unrealistic.

I'm not trying to start a fight, this is just my 2 cents. 

jimbodude

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #20 on: April 14, 2010, 06:44:32 pm »
klovell - there are other ways to contribute.  There is documentation to write, for instance.

tschak909

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #21 on: April 14, 2010, 06:55:08 pm »
It _Really_ amazes me, the perceived gulf in development.

I am not academically or professionally trained. I am also not just a programmer, I am a polymath...

now,

The point is:

* The source code to this entire system is available to anyone who wants to dig under the hood, and help make it better.

I see so many developers complaining about this and that, yet, don't have the balls to dig in and ask questions, and try things.

We can't do it all! there are only a few of us, and none of the original team.

come on guys, we all need to be janitors from time to time and help keep the place clean and fix things.

-Thom

klovell

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #22 on: April 14, 2010, 08:14:42 pm »
Polymath... I really don't mean any disrespect but that clears a few things up regarding this thread.  I do agree that if you're a programmer and you're open source software isn't working properly you should probably just work on it instead of complaining.  If my computer breaks i wont call dell... partly because it's my fault for buying a Dell but mostly because I can fix it.

Documentation!! I can do that!  My home network is so well documented any tech guy with have a brain can work on it without asking any questions as long as he/she has my notes.  I've already started with the documentation for my lmce network.  I'll have to edit out a few passwords and ip addresses but I've written down every script I've ran and option I've selected.  I also keep a record of everything i've done that failed.  I can definitely contribute in these ways.  Hell, Once I've use lmce enough and I'm convinced that it's for me i wouldn't be opposed to contributing financially.   

It's not programing but i'm no freeloader.  I don't mind carrying my weight.

grind

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #23 on: April 14, 2010, 11:14:55 pm »
I just had to google what a polymath is but that really sounds interesting ;)

I'm no programmer but i am going to step into it.
First of all i need to setup an interim solution as my flat has no Switches at the moment so i need something to control all the lights, blends and the radiator. After that is done i will start to documenting, i will do some video-tutorials and i will also begin to implement new features like 1-Wire.
Primary i am doing all the documentation for me but i will of course make them available to everyone.

@Klovell: You should not write passwords in your documentation. They have to reside in a password-safe and/or your brain.

Regards,
Grind

golgoj4

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2010, 12:01:38 am »
just my 2cents

start small...maybe with something in the web admin. There are more tutorials on the web than i can shake a stick at on whatever topic you want, plus sites that will walk you through anything you need to know.

The key imo, is to just  try. You don't have to tell anyone, or get permission, just do some research (%90 of the job i swear) and go for it. Small steps is the way to go and don't be worried about bouncing an idea off of someone else.

When i started using linuxMCE, it was my 1st experience using linux. Eventually poked my way around the system and learned enough to try and help document stuff in the wiki. then a little addition to the web admin. Now im trying (unsuccessfully atm) to get my little weather device working. All that was required was a willingness to sit down and read, digest and understand how it works and the way to get yourself there. Im not a programmer, as im sure there are tons of fundamentals that im missing! But linuxMCE has been the vehicle that has kept me wanting to learn more and i get a nice benefit of it being something i use in my everyday life.

granted, its a process, but it doesn't hurt to grab a book or find a nice 'learn $languge now.com' and just work on it. Kinda fun actually, but thats just me. And yes, in the beginning it sucks because it feels like your reading some alternate version of the dictionary. But, when you start reading code and understanding (on a basic level) whats going on, its a great feeling.

cheers
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los93sol

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2010, 04:02:48 am »
I'm with Thom on this whole subject.  Yes, the curve is steep, but it's not out of reason.  Several of the members of the current core team can vouch they've seen me literally learn C++ and start turning out code in just a few short weeks.  That's working full time with other obligations, really just getting a few hours in here and there.  Am I as proficient as the core dev team here?  Absolutely not, but the point is I'm able to help in small ways now and am doing so.  That's really all that's being asked for, we need people to dig in and try.  It's okay to ask questions, there are plenty of people here that are able to answer questions and point you in the right direction.  They key is, once you've gotten something going, things start clicking into place and you get a much broader understanding.  Over time, the more advanced tasks will make sense.  If everyone posting in this thread can think of one small item you'd like to see in LinuxMCE and start asking questions and actively sorting it out, and implements that feature it would help a lot.  I do think that some of the programming challenges have been aimed at a somewhat advanced skillset, but I think the real frustration isn't coming from people not working on the challenges so much as not even trying to implement anything.  Rather than talking about the reasons why you can't, let's see some discussion about what you would like to work on and we can help point you in the right direction, direct you to the material you should read up on, some example code, etc. to assist you in achieving your goals.

RailFarmer

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #26 on: May 31, 2010, 10:50:14 pm »
I'm sorry you're so frustrated about active development.  I'm a Unix expert with lots of free time who is looking for a big coding effort to jump into and I'm interested in LinuxMCE (at least as a user at this point).  I've built one 8.10 beta2 hybrid so far.  (I built two but switched from a Phenom II X4 box to a 1.8GHz Athlon box because the Phenom seemed overkill once I got it built).  Here are some reasons I why haven't contributed to lmce yet:

#1 - lmce was extremely tedious for me to install and get "working."  I spent a solid week+ trying to install it.  It's partly my fault for not rtfm first.  I thought putting the CD into a fresh machine and clicking "Install LinuxMCE" would at least get a basic installation ... but I was wrong ... such is the nature of a beta I suppose.

#2 - None of my existing machines have nvidia GPUs (most are ATI by strange luck).  So I'm still sorting out which of my issues are "ATI isn't supported" problems and which are not.  Frustrating but workable.  If I like lmce enough I'll get some nvidia boards (or add ATI support to lmce if that contribution would be welcome).  So, I'm still struggling to get the thing working at all and I dare not ask for help because I read the warning about ATI.

#3 - I write C code but not C++.  I haven't checked the help wanted ads here but I infer from this thread that you're looking for C++ and not C.

#4 - lmce is much more like a single board computer than a linux application.  I'm one of those "walk through walls" / "walk on water" unix people and I'm having trouble not breaking the system ... no I take that back ... I'm having no trouble whatsoever breaking the system -- I'm having trouble trying not to break it then figuring out how to unbreak it without doing [yet] another reinstall.  I'm willing to work on such a system again but I see a steep relearning curve just to be able to tinker much less fix/maintain/augment.  Heck, I'm even a very serious home theater person so that part isn't even a learning issue for me.  I'm just overwhelmed (amazed actually) by the dcerouter mechanism and how it really pushes the envelope of "plug & play."

#5 - Here is the one that worries me the most ... the current "beta" is based on Ubuntu 8.10 ... which goes dark in less than six months, doesn't it?  And users are told not to do release upgrades, right?  I know 10.04 LTS just came out, but if it's so much work to integrate with the o/s release, why wasn't this based on an LTS release (which would have been 8.04 at the time if I understand Ubuntu correctly -- I'm new to the Ubuntu distro).  Does this mean you (the LinuxMCE team) are going to do your own support for 8.10 for lmce?

Anyway, to make a long story short (too late), if I could get it to stay running, then if I could figure out how to use it, then I'd start using it (sh*t, I want to do the whole house with it or something like it).  Then if I could figure out how it works internally -- or even just find a piece I could work on (and I already have a long list of things I'd like to add) -- then I'd happily jump headlong into the code effort.

But I'm really worried about this LTS thing ... I'd really hate to get neck deep into an implementation then have to switch to something else.  And I am also kind of anxious about how fragile it appears to be (like alpha stability in a beta2 pack).

BTW, the only part I've even tried using so far is loading my own DVDs and CDs into the core for playback on that machine's monitor/speakers.  I haven't even let the thing see my netcams or my Vista panel or even any of my amps, TVs, etc.

I'd love to help.

tschak909

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Re: Why is nobody taking on the programming tasks?
« Reply #27 on: May 31, 2010, 11:00:22 pm »
Welcome on board.

There were some decisions that were made, that we could not go back on, once committed. One of those was choosing 8.10. There were a great many reasons for it. However; yes, you are right. It will go dark soon, and we are trying to get the last of the bugs for 0810 squashed, so we can release it, and immediately build atop 1004, which is an LTS release.

I'm sorry about your hardware issues, but it is true, that if you follow a recommended hardware setup, things go much smoother. We need people to build more and more templates to support newer devices as they come out, to make them plug and play.

If you are familar with C, C++ isn't that big of a jump. We merely have an extensive architecture in place, where both code and data are intertwined. This does make for somewhat of an initial learning curve, but once you figure out what's happening, you'll see that it is very powerful (and actually very simple) to have LinuxMCE control anything.

And yes, LMCE is very much an appliance. We intend to keep it that way, there just is no other way for the system to function. I am investigating in the future to move the entire stack to MeeGo (which would better support such endeavours), and to peel away some of the vestigial pieces that Pluto created before the greater Linux community created equivalents...We want to push as much upstream as possible.

Come by the #linuxmce-devel channel on IRC (Freenode), and talk to us, this is where most of the development happens.

We only have one rule, "he who writes the code, makes the rules."

Again, thanks for your interest, and we would love your help.
-Thom