Author Topic: Suport for other ditros?  (Read 2581 times)

newbi462

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Suport for other ditros?
« on: May 26, 2009, 05:33:15 am »
I don't know if I will get my head bit off for suggesting this line of development..

But I honestly would love to see the LinuxMCE package be available on other distros of Linux. I know Ubuntu/Kubuntu has a large presence, but to be honest I never really got why. I might be the minority but when I sit in front of an Ubuntu or Kubuntu I just don' feel at home. To me it is a tad counter intuitive.

Please do not get me wrong I am not bashing Linux. I love Linux I just prefer distros with a UI like PClinux or Madriva. The differences are not enormous, but to me and most I know, the UI is just more intuitive to where I look for stuff & how to configure. I also think ditros like these are a much better starting place for newbies than distros like Ubuntu. Even though I will be the first to admit at times PClinux is behind the curve despite being a rolling distro.

I also like that distros like this let you shrink the windows partition so just in case you still have windows around. I often format the whole drive. But at least for now despite the vast improvements to Wine & Crossover over the years, some things just can not be used in Linux that can in Windows. It is not really the fault of Linux more Hardware & software developers shorsitely not considering LInux.

While I try and spread Linux as much as possible I would rather some one not switch to Linux than have a bad experience with it. Most Users wont care that the issue do to legal soup, or that their printer they love is 15 years old so has no Linux driver, and so on.. They will just say Linux sux cause it works in Windows. The last thing any of us want as Linux users..

At the end of the day I am a very pro PC(Personal Computer) User. I define that as I am pro peoples ability to chose their: hardware, parifiales, OS, and software..

based on the Videos I think I would love LinuxMCE, and think I know some tech phobic people who would love it. But I know no way most of these people would let me nuke their Windows Install.

...


I don't know how dependent on Ubuntu MCE is but if it is possible I think making it available for other distros and have the option to re size instead of wipe out. And if possible a demo/ live DVD ver would make it easier to get some people to try it. and not force people to chooise between there current distro or taking advantage of what MCE can do.

...

I know most Linux users are all pro Linux micro soft SUX. I am more a Pro PC person. And when it comes to Linux I am pro having any one I get to try it to fall in love with it.

Sorry but I know some people who will not fall in love with Ubuntu but would love other Linux distros...

I welcome any feedback on if this can likely be or will be done. I also welcome any debate on the pros and cons of Ubuntu as the "best" distro ever.



tschak909

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2009, 05:58:30 am »
While our build system has the concept of supporting multiple distributions, we support Ubuntu, because quite frankly, the scope of this system is so large, that we only have resources to SUPPORT one linux distribution.

We have over:

* 4 million lines of our OWN code
* another 3 million lines of OTHER people's code
* over 300 system scripts that provide the plumbing for the system
* massive amounts of integration glue between them

In short, if anyone wants to support another distribution, they need to do the leg work. But honestly, this system is an appliance. It is meant to take control of virtually everything in the house, and provide a single cohesive interface.

It is NOT a duct taped together media player.

So if someone wants to take the time to port the system to other distributions, we'll answer questions, etc.. as best as we can.. but said interested persons must do the leg work themselves.

-Thom

newbi462

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2009, 07:57:35 pm »
I may wind up trying to do so if I ever get the team I want to put together..


I get that MCE is not a "duct taped together media player" My thinking was more in line with a lot of the smart home functionality and features like follow me?

As I understand it these features only relay work with other MCE systems. SO while the Living room PC and Kitchen mini box may be MCE systems, if the office PC is a more practical distro for that like PClin, Suse, whatever those features wont work. Am I right in my thinking?

Ideally the things like follow me should follow each person in the house around: "Kid A" should be able to go from the living room to their room and regardless of what LInux distro they run or phone they have (say iPhone, G1, Palm, Nokia, and so on), Mom go from office to kitchen to living room to bed room... and so on and so on.

Adding a a $XXX.XX box to each TV is one thing. But I don't think many people want to have to add another box to a room that has a PC already, nor have to choice between using there PC how they want or having it work seamlessly with MCE.

...

That all being said while I am not a programmer more a hardware person. I do sympathies with the leg work that would be involved. So I understand that the MCE team does not have the time to do so, but am glad that you all are likely open to helping others do so.when they run it to problems.

I don't know how long it will take before I can come back to this, But hope it is some time this year or early next at the latest...?

...

Right now I am in the middle of a lot of projects, but part of the cornersone of most of them is doing as much PR(Public Relations) as possible for Linux. But as said before I am more focused an make adapting Linux easy and pain free. More welcoming that confusing..

Dont get me wrong. It is just or all the good things Linux offers going LInux is a tad overwhelming to a non geek. In some cases what I consider the best distros for alot of people are in alot of ways not main stream know of. In some ways the greatest asset of Linux, it many many flavors, is it greatest adversary.

It is largely just my opinion, but what I feel Linux need most is to be actually be more main stream known. Even if is not used by all. Most people know to ask: is it Vista compatible, they look for does it work on MAC to even if they don't have one. As a result most of the larger stores try and staff people who can answer these questions. But go in to a store and ask any thing about Linux, odds are no level of competency. In fact I only got, really really really. lucky once  in about 10 years.

..

Ok I am babbling. Sorry about that. But as things stand now unless you are a tech/geek/nerd person, or routinely communicate with one, you probably have never herd of Linux then alone tried it. The OS lives on word of mouth, so to travel to other circles it needs tech phobic people using it.

Sorry for babbling. Here is hoping I get my Linux team together soon.






 






 

wierdbeard65

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2009, 09:08:47 pm »
I'm fairly new to MCE myself, being in the process of putting my system together. I have, however been hanging around the forums for a little while and I reckon that you have missed the point of MCE to a certain extent (or I have :D).

MCE has a lot more in common with an Appliance than with a desktop OS. In a working system, you basically have 3 types of computer (I'm ignoring all the Automation stuff for a moment!)

First up, there is the core. This is the server and is the machine hosting the MCE software.
Next, you have the Media Directors. These display the media on a monitor (or TV) and run diskless - they PXE boot from the core.
Finally, you have the Orbiters, which can be web browsers, dedicated devices or applications running on other devices.

Now, let us just take  your comments in the light of this...

Ideally the things like follow me should follow each person in the house around: "Kid A" should be able to go from the living room to their room and regardless of what LInux distro they run or phone they have (say iPhone, G1, Palm, Nokia, and so on), Mom go from office to kitchen to living room to bed room... and so on and so on.
The distro has nothing to do with the phone (or vice versa) since for a phone, you'll actually be using either the web orbiter or an embedded app. The real misunderstanding comes, I think, when you say
regardless of what LInux distro they run
The Media Directors are not user PCs, they are (when acting as a media director) dedicated to this function. They don't require a local HDD (although if one is present it can host media files) and they run their OS etc from the core. It is possible to "dual boot" one of these boxes, whereby you tell MCE that the next time the machine booits it should use it's local OS, but then it isn't acting as a Media Director.

I suspect that you are assuming the media appears in a window on the PC, this is not the case.

As a result, your comments on Distro are actually (with all due respect) irrelevant. Yes, you could go to the hassle of getting all to work on SUSE, Slackware RedHat or whatever, but what would you gain? The system is pretty much managed as an appliance through a web interface, so the underlying OS (and therefore distro) is largely hidden anyway.

I can see that if you were wanting to use the machine to play games, or as an Office PC, the distro is important, but as I've already said, you can dual-boot (it isn't actually dual booting in the strictest sense as it always PXE boots, just passes through to the local OS if required).

I hope my rambling clarifies things a bit. Perhaps others will want to comment and I'm sure you will have more to say on the subject - I just wanted to prevent you from embarking on a large piece of work needlessly :D
Paul
If you have the time to help, please see where I have got to at: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Wierdbeard65

tschak909

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2009, 09:14:36 pm »
Do keep in mind that:

(1) Media Directors do have their own KDE desktop available, and
(2) DCE devices can be made to run on anything.

So if someone were to make a workstation agent, then cool.

The biggest thing you need to understand is that you shouldn't wait for someone else to do a feature that you want. Chances are, you won't get it. You have to take the initiative, yourself.

-Thom

newbi462

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2009, 05:28:35 am »
tschak909 pretty much hit the nail on the head. I am aware when in MCE mode the OS desktop is hidden away.

And, while yes duel booting like wierdbeard65 proposes would keep you from having to get dedicated boxes. But while simple has obvious draw backs, people who switch modes often would have to reboot all the time. In the same Line a VM could work but same kind of stuff and VM cant always get you there. I just honestly feel people should not need to make that switch.

My guess would be in most homes the actual MCE/hub would be the slandered Kubuntu MCE

The interlinking is the important part for the other OS. For lack of a better example somthing like what Beyond TV link is to Beyond TV. Not that I am saying Beyond TV even compares to MCE, because it does not. 

As I understand it the end goal here is home decimation and a superior Media Center. One where all the media on all the PCs, DVD players, TV feeds is avilibal on all the PCs and TVs in the house through an easy interface; and all the essentials like phones, security systems, lights are fully integrated.

I here you tschak909. If I had the programing skills I would probably disapier into a dark room for 6 moths and emerge with the App X being talked about. But, unfortunately as said before I am not a programmer. I do not have the $100,000.00 to spend on a BS in computer science, and I am more one of those people who learn by doing, Part of why I am trying to find some Software Engineers & or programmers to work with. In part to help me with what I want made, But also so I can learn the way I learn.

I am more a designer and an artist, that because of my background also happens to be a bit of a tech person.

tschak909, if you have any suggestions on classes or books let me know. I know the greates potentials to Linux is if you know who to make software you can literally do any thing you can imagine. But, I don't know much about programing. Aside from HTML, some JAVA, and with enough time being able to make some logic of scripts you can edit in a text editor I don't really know any thing about the iner workings of software; save the basic concepts of how a PC uses software.

Basically, I know just enough to have an idea of how much I don't know.

...

on a completely unrelated note how many TV tuners can be used at once on one system. Obviously only one thing can be displayed on one screen at a time, but how many simultaneous  recordings is what I mean. Theoretically with 4 500MCE cards you could record 8 overlapping shows/movies but will Myth & MCE see and share all 8 of those feeds?






jimmejames

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2009, 05:50:00 am »
I'm not sure what all you're trying to do, but my GF runs the win orbiter on her vista box- can increase the volume of the playing song, turn off the music, etc by opening an orbiter on her desktop (just timed it, takes about 5 seconds from a double click to be a functional orbiter).  An orbiter is not a MD- she can't play music or videos on her machine, but can control the MDs/core like any other orbiter.  Then, when she has want she wants, she can close the orbiter and open a browser or whatever.

Also, if you put your media on a NAS (maybe even on the core, but haven't tried this) you can access your media using your favorite program and play the media as though LMCE wasn't there- for those times that you don't have a MD in the room. 

I don't know what OS's the orbiters support- as it so happens I'm having trouble dling the win orbiter from 810, but that's another matter.  It would seem to me that building a orbiter that fits your desired OS would be a lot easier and less time consuming than trying to port LMCE to a different OS, but I'm not a programmer and certainly not trying to discourage anyone from expanding LMCE.

colinjones

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2009, 06:12:05 am »
newbi462 -

Your options are simple, either:

1) Use the KDE desktop on the MD as is, then you can switch back and forth between LMCE and KDE, instantly, conveniently and without having to reboot - 2 clicks.

2) Use the dual booting option and install any distro you like, then simply reboot to get your preferred desktop UI

3) Do both the above for maximum flexibility

4) Work towards porting to another distro

But seriously! Either you love another distro so much, and hate Kubuntu so much that you are comfortable using option 2, OR there really isn't that much in it for you so your are happy using option 1! In any case, option 3 gives you the best of both worlds (you can do quick simple things in KDE, and boot out to do more substantial things). But skating the line between loving another distribution so much that you must use it, but somehow not enough to make it worth your while rebooting to get it, that it makes the porting option anything other than massive overkill, seems somewhat disingenuous!

I suggest you try option 1, and see just how well it can work for you. Lets not make an issue when potentially one does not really exist :)

newbi462

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2009, 06:40:35 am »
colinjones

You make good points. However, I should point out I am being more "abstract" in my points.

IE I am coming from the point of view of getting people to embrace Linux & things like MCE the slandered to expect from a home entertainment system.

Heck, if people actually had cabled networks the Ethernet booting tie in would solve all of this. But the truth is most peoples home networks these days are WIFI. At least State Side.

Now in the Demo Video, the guy talks about newer homes having the phone lines done with RJ-45(Ethernet). While that make the way it is in Europe, State Side every thing is still RJ-12. Most people buy a LInksys WIFI G-Router and either a WIFI dongle or in most cases the PC already had Built in WIFI.

I am getting the impression for the most part Europe chose to modernize their infrastructure. The revers happened in the States. We spent the last decade circumventing it.

I think the link program and option 4 of the ones you mandate is probably best for my ends.

In case what those are is unclear the main goal of what I am talking about, and in regards to Linux n general is trying to stear it to be compatible with the exsiting stuff and set up people have and can redaly get.

My honest opinion is at the end of the day if you are the best in town or not is irrelevant if people can not make use of you: with out spending 3 times as much, needing stuff they don't have/cant get, or have to jump through other hoops as annoying to even use you.

...


Please understand I am not trying to be negative, but practical about what most people would have or be using. That is all.
 

tschak909

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2009, 07:17:11 am »
Point being, you're making assumptions.

You know what they say about assumptions...

Try the system as it is intended. Then adjust.

-Thom

colinjones

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2009, 09:03:54 am »
newbi - I haven't a clue where the comments on wifi vs wired networks came from, I thought we were talking about different distros. Unless you can point to where that is relevant to the thread (see your subject title), I need to ask you to veer back to the subject!

To clarify, prior to that, I see no issue with using Linux or specifically Kubuntu, with wireless or wired networks compared with, say, Wintel systems. The only significant limitation is PXE booting MDs cannot be done (easily) with wireless networks currently... however that will change if/when disked MDs are re-added as a feature... BUT more importantly, this is nothing to do with Linux or Kubuntu, it is a limitation on PC BIOSs and PXE boot software, and so is as applicable to Linux as it is to Windows, or any other OS out there... no distinction!

I will not comment on the chosen wiring standards in EU or US as I live in neither region, plus it is completely off topic.... (note, this is a moderation warning, as well, stay on topic!)

nite_man

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2009, 10:54:17 am »
IMHO it'd be better to concentrate on the Kubuntu based LinuxMCE version. Personally I don't see any advantage to port LMCE to some other Linux distribution. As I already told it'd be better to help the project to follow by new Kubuntu versions.
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totallymaxed

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Re: Suport for other ditros?
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2009, 12:45:57 am »
IMHO it'd be better to concentrate on the Kubuntu based LinuxMCE version. Personally I don't see any advantage to port LinuxMCE to some other Linux distribution. As I already told it'd be better to help the project to follow by new Kubuntu versions.

100% agree with that sentiment. The Core team has enough to do maintaining and expanding LinuxMCE on a single platform without diverting effort to another...that would total madness!!! LinuxMCE's codebase is absolutely huge...I would estimate that in terms of lines of code & scope LinuxMCE is far bigger than any other Open Source project out there.

 If anyone wants to port to another platform then it would be better to fork the code and go off and do it in my opinion...

All the best

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