Author Topic: HP Media Vault  (Read 1258 times)

Throne Logic

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HP Media Vault
« on: January 18, 2009, 10:55:52 pm »
Greetings all:

I have managed to fight my way through the basic installation of LMCE using the DVD option.  I have it up and running with the basic configurations set for rooms.  At this point I'm stuck.

I've spent a few hours trying to get this thing to properly detect my NAS.  It did initially detect it, however, I was unable to do anything with it.  So, I made sure all permissions were set correctly and reloaded the router.  No change.  I then figured I'd delete the device and reload the router to let it redetect.  This was a mistake.  No redetection.

I found a couple versions of instructions for manually configuring the device.  This will not work.  I ADD a child device for the CORE and wind up on the Device Template dialog.  There is no combination of "Hewlett Packard" and "File/Media Server" that yields a template I can select.  If I try to create one via the "Is your device not on the list option", I fill out the form and watch it disappear - returning me back to the original dialog for adding a child device, only now it is blank again.

I've tried this several times, making sure I followed the instructions from the WIKI as close as possible.  The closest I've come was to create the device by telling LMCE that it was a Maxtor NAS.  Since there was an available template, it created the device.  I then added a CHILD to that device with the Windows Share template and defined the share with the appropriate UNC path along with user and password.

Now, I can go through the GUI menu to MEDIA | MORE | MANAGE DRIVES and I can see the share I created.  However, there is nothing in it.  None of the buttons in that Manage dialog (i.e. Load One/Many or Refresh) appear to do anything.

Before I keep fighting down this path, I'd like to verify that I'll be OK with my "Maxtor" workaround.  More importantly, is there a better way to do this so I don't need to use this workaround?

I've been at this install / setup / configuration of LMCE for approximately 20 hours now.  I've yet to see anything at all that resembles "cool" or "neat" or even simply "working" beyond the low res. ugly orbitor menu.  Getting very frustrated.  Nothing should be this much of a battle.

Any suggestions would be very welcome at this point.

hari

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2009, 11:47:04 pm »
I've been at this install / setup / configuration of LMCE for approximately 20 hours now. 
I've been at this install / setup / configuration / development of LMCE for approximately 20*20 days now.

Quote
I've yet to see anything at all that resembles "cool" or "neat" or even simply "working" beyond the low res. ugly orbitor menu. 
I can tell you, I've seen many cool and neat things on my very interesting journey. And trust me, you'll get used to the orbiter menu :-p

Quote
Getting very frustrated.  Nothing should be this much of a battle.

Any suggestions would be very welcome at this point.
right, the NAS. Do you export a share properly? Did you try using username and password?

br, Hari
« Last Edit: January 18, 2009, 11:51:59 pm by hari »
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

Zaerc

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2009, 11:57:24 pm »
...
I've been at this install / setup / configuration of LMCE for approximately 20 hours now.  I've yet to see anything at all that resembles "cool" or "neat" or even simply "working" beyond the low res. ugly orbitor menu.  Getting very frustrated.  Nothing should be this much of a battle.
...

Nothing worth having ever comes easy :P
"Change is inevitable. Progress is optional."
-- Anonymous


colinjones

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 12:01:05 am »
Triggering a "re-detect" can be a bit tricky!

Ensure the NAS is set to DHCP and that it is connected to the "internal" network on the second NIC of your core.
Turn off the NAS.
Remove any automatic or manual entries you have in the devices tree.
Remove any entries in the /etc/dhcp3/dhcpd.conf that refer to that device, IP address or MAC address.
In web admin, remove any entires in Advanced->Configuration->Unknown Devices that relate to the device.
Reload the router.
Turn the NAS back on.

Once the NAS requests a new DHCP lease, the DHCP server in LMCE will tell the LMCE pnp system that a new device has been found. Then the pnp will trigger the process of prompting you, etc. Do make sure that you have the stuff Hari mentions right, as well.

Tips:
If you have a lot of media it will take a long time to scan it all in - patience!!
Until you have tagged your media with meta data, use the Filename sort mode in the media browser otherwise you won't see any media
If, in the admin site, you do not see media starting to appear with a big check mark, and/or the share device doesn't have the online checkbox checked you may want manually to add a username and password into the share device configuration (and perhaps the server/NAS device as well)
answer yes to the question do you want to use LMCE's directory structure and subsequently move any existing media on that drive into the folders that it creates.

Throne Logic

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 02:27:42 am »
Hari: Yes, I use the NAS for a number of things from other boxes.  I went so far as to reset the security and rebuild it just to rule out any quirks.  I created a new username password to match linuxmce/linuxmce as was created for the LMCE box.  There is also a user setup for the profile that was created within LMCE that matches both in name and password.  I have connected to it from the KDE desktop just to verify connectivity.

Zaerc:  Normally, I would agree.  However, I've an 18 month old and a complete kitchen remodel in the works.  I was (unrealistically) hoping this just might work like the Demo video shows.  Time is in rather short supply.  Truth be told, I've been in this business way to long to truly believe that this would work "out of the box".  But I did allow some excitement to build up after that demo video.

Colinjones:  You may have hit upon part of the problem here.  Since I set this up on an older PC to evaluate how it works and see if my wife might "approve" it, I don't have a second NIC.  I'm running the LMCE on my primary network, which isn't too elaborate at this point in time.  Basically, there are two Windows boxes and a router which serves as my internet client, primary firewall, and DHCP server (although the DHCP server is primary just there for test boxes and repair jobs as my printers / devices / machines are static addresses).  I have disabled the DHCP service for the LMCE box and configured it with its own static address.  I figured that with a simple network setup, this would not be a problem.  From your reply, I'm rethinking this.  Is this a problem?  I could borrow another NIC from one of my test boxes to double up, if you think this is the root of the trouble.

Thanks to all of you for your input.

- TL
 

tschak909

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 03:51:51 am »
Believe it or not, I set up systems that are quick and easy to set up, just as they are in the video.

The trick is following the FAQ.

I love it how people try to dismiss the demo video as some sort of fantasy, or false advertising, yet, many of us have set up systems just this easy...you never hear about those on the forum though.

I'm getting very tired of helping people who get mad when things break because they willfully do not follow directions.

-Thom

colinjones

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 04:33:19 am »
TL don't risk abuse, if you were not aware of the 2 NIC requirement then you definitely haven't read enough on LMCE! Just type dual/single/2/NIC or some other criteria into either the wiki or forum search engines and you will see what I mean.

Two NICs and the correct networking setup is an absolute non-negotiable requirement for a newbie. Although it is technically possible to setup using a single NIC, do not expect any assistance troubleshooting if you do so unless you are already very experienced with LMCE. It is going fundamentally against the underlying design principles, so looking for help to re-engineer a system when you are new to it generally is unwelcome :)

LMCE relies on 2 networks and NICs for a range of things, one of which is the pnp system. Get a cheap second NIC and rebuild your box (from the DVD) - and follow Thom's advice on the FAQ.

The first NIC needs to be eth0 and connected to the "external" network - in practice this means your existing network and Internet access. The second NIC will be eth1 and connected to your new "internal" or LMCE network. Everything you want to interact with LMCE needs to be on this network with DHCP set up. Usually, you would just move your entire home itinerary of equipment to the internal network for simplicity, and just have a straight patch cable from the external NIC to your broadband router. If you find you are reconfiguring anything in Linux other than the xorg.conf file or installing new video drivers, then you are almost certainly re-engineering and probably addressing a symptom rather than cause. This includes symlinks, mounts, etc

The wiki article on AV Wizard and Display Drivers are also very useful...

Throne Logic

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 06:53:30 am »
TL don't risk abuse, if you were not aware of the 2 NIC requirement then you definitely haven't read enough on LMCE! Just type dual/single/2/NIC or some other criteria into either the wiki or forum search engines and you will see what I mean.

Two NICs and the correct networking setup is an absolute non-negotiable requirement for a newbie. Although it is technically possible to setup using a single NIC, do not expect any assistance troubleshooting if you do so unless you are already very experienced with LMCE. It is going fundamentally against the underlying design principles, so looking for help to re-engineer a system when you are new to it generally is unwelcome :)

LMCE relies on 2 networks and NICs for a range of things, one of which is the pnp system. Get a cheap second NIC and rebuild your box (from the DVD) - and follow Thom's advice on the FAQ.

The first NIC needs to be eth0 and connected to the "external" network - in practice this means your existing network and Internet access. The second NIC will be eth1 and connected to your new "internal" or LMCE network. Everything you want to interact with LMCE needs to be on this network with DHCP set up. Usually, you would just move your entire home itinerary of equipment to the internal network for simplicity, and just have a straight patch cable from the external NIC to your broadband router. If you find you are reconfiguring anything in Linux other than the xorg.conf file or installing new video drivers, then you are almost certainly re-engineering and probably addressing a symptom rather than cause. This includes symlinks, mounts, etc

The wiki article on AV Wizard and Display Drivers are also very useful...

I thank you for your answer with regards to my issue.  I actually have read about much of this.  I do understand exactly how multiple NIC's work and for what purpose.  What was not clear was how important this actually was even on a basic network with little going on.  My thought was to actually keep things as simple as possible.  Generally, eliminating as many variables as possible (i.e. multiple neworks) tends to have a better rate of success.  Apparently that was the wrong approach in this case. As I also stated, this was supposed to be an evaluation to see if it worked for me.  I wasn't really interested in completely reconfiguring everything on my network (i.e. the file server that serves things other than media).  That's fine, now that I understand the problem, I'll come up with a different plan.  As I said, I have parts and test boxes lying around so it's not an issue.

In regard to Thom's post, I might just point out that the WIKI articles and FAQ's that he refers to are not quite as easy to follow along with as he suggests.  The WIKI and FAQ's assume more than you realize.  Many of the instructions are not well matched to the actual menus and dialogs within the system.  It's like proof reading your own paper.  Your mind simply fills in the obvious when ever a step is missing, whereas someone who's never read it would notice right away.  Experience plays a large role in system configurations.  You know the hardware to start with, the exact options to choose based upon the equipment and situation you're in.  I don't know anything about Linux or LMCE beyond what I've read in the past few days.  I can beat a Windows box into submission, but Linux is a completely different animal. 

Somtimes it's difficult to find the correct answers via search features.  Heck, sometimes I'm not even sure what I'm asking.  That's why we come here to present our issues.  So someone can point out that I'm already screwed because the two NIC configuration is vital and not optional as some articles suggest and the options to do otherwise exist within the system.

So, if you are trying to promote new user interest, jumping on the newbie with an innocent question is a poor way to do it. 

- TL

colinjones

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 07:32:27 am »
TL

On the wiki - then please take the time to flesh out/correct any details you find lacking. The articles don't write themselves, and I definitely agree that articles on wikis often do expect too much knowledge. It is extremely easy to update them, and don't be afraid or play down the value even of very simple edits. A few words here, a bit of punctuation there can do wonders for useability! If you have any concerns that your changes may not be correct, feel free to post them here first for review and discussion.

On the 2 NICs point, can you please point me to the article(s) that you feel imply or explicitly state that 2 NICs are an option. This needs to be eliminated immediately and I will take on that task.

On the evaluation and testing you want to do - yes, it is a little difficult technically and conceptually to get around the 2 NIC thing. This is probably the most common issue - "I just want to test, before converting my whole network." Unfortunately, the architecture is so tightly bound to this that it would be a major undertaking to try and provide a single NIC configuration out of the box. There has been a little progress on the web admin side that will probably appear in the new version, but realistically you are still in a 2 NIC scenario for your purposes.

I say conceptually, because most people initially see this as a huge imposition. In fact, if you read what I have been saying, it is really only in the mind that it feels that way. Buy a $10 NIC and $2 patch cable and you are set to go. The vast majority of home networks tend to be a broadband router also serving as a DHCP server, with a patch cable from it to a switch which the rest of the network hangs off.

Simply unpatch the cable from the router and plug it into the internal NIC, then with the new patch cable, patch from the external NIC back to the router. And you're done! The router now provides DHCP only to the hybrid LMCE, and LMCE provides DHCP to the rest of your house. Nothing else has to change, its that simple. When you are done testing, reverse the process and reboot your other equipment to get a DHCP lease off the router again. Complete.

The only issues you are likely to come across with this are 1) if your router has built in switch ports and you are using those instead of a real switch, then you need to get an actual switch - this doesn't sound a problem in your case. 2) whilst you are testing, your internet access in the house is dependant on the hybrid machine being up - generally this is a fairly minor inconvenience and only for the 2mins it takes to reboot occasionally. 3) if you are using a bridge broadband device with PPPoE dialer on a computer, then you need to go through a few extra hoops to get LMCE to do the dialup for you - I can't stand PPPoE, and really recommend using a proper router!

Throne Logic

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 07:01:14 pm »
Colinjones: 

Time permitting, I would be happy to update the WIKI.  I have technical / instructional writing experience and would be happy to give back to this project.

I don't remember specifically which article implied that 1 NIC was doable - but I'm sure I'll come across it in my travels and make note of it.

My only concern with the dual network concept is accessing my file server through the LMCE Hybrid box.  With all the ups and downs during configuration I loose connectivity to often.  However, this won't be a problem.  I'll just eliminate the NAS from the equation for now with a second HD in the LMCE box to hold some media. 

After I get a handle on the LMCE system and a good feel for what I can do and what I am interested in doing (i.e. installing Home Automation and Alarm hardware in the house) I plan to setup a stronger box as my HYBRID or possibly a dedicated CORE.  That's all part of what I mean when I say, "I'm evaluating".  It's not so much whether or not I intend to use the system, rather what I intend to use it for and the best foundation to setup for the "go-live" process.

I thank you again for your advice.  And rest assured that I do not use PPPoE and my switch is up to the challenge.

- TL

colinjones

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 11:13:52 pm »
My only concern with the dual network concept is accessing my file server through the LMCE Hybrid box. 

As I say, if you follow my setup advice then this point is moot - only the Internet will be accessed through the LMCE Hybrid, everything else will be on the same LAN, accessed directly.

Zaerc

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Re: HP Media Vault
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2009, 03:11:12 am »
...
I don't remember specifically which article implied that 1 NIC was doable - but I'm sure I'll come across it in my travels and make note of it.
...

Well it is doable, just a pretty big hassle and not worth the effort of saving like $5 on a NIC especially when you're new to lmce.
"Change is inevitable. Progress is optional."
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