Author Topic: Zwave necessary components for easy integ  (Read 2890 times)

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« on: December 09, 2008, 09:28:27 pm »
as the topic describes I have now moved from plcbus more or less completely due to the uncertanity to speak between phases.And the selling arguments in Every plcbus vs. thread since hari started to work at the driver

I am in the mode of ordering the needed components this week. For starters I am planning just to control lights, inside and outside. Also turning on the engine heater is a must this time of year.

 From what I understand you off course need the seluxit controller to connect to the core.
 But then it's abit unclear.
* Do I need the remotecontrol still as well to add the dimmers/switches etc to LMCE?
* Can I buy whatever Merten switch/dimmer I want and it can be controlled hari-magically ;) without support/compability issues?

In case not, Anyone has a list over "supported" switches and dimmers?
 I will then add it to the wiki since I can only find controllers there.

Btw I live in EU..

-johan

hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2008, 09:45:55 pm »
From what I understand you off course need the seluxit controller to connect to the core.
yes. We got two new options for EU recently, the Tricklestar and the MCV stick. I have both here, they have a newer library version but don't work plug and play on 0710 (usb id has to be added to the pnp section of the z-wave device template).

Quote
But then it's abit unclear.
* Do I need the remotecontrol still as well to add the dimmers/switches etc to LMCE?
Mostly yes. The new driver will support "high power" inclusion with the dongle alone in 0810 (0810 adds e.g. a new "Add Node" dce command). But I've not yet seen a EU slave device that supports it. You could also use a notebook and software like the z-tool to add devices to the dongle. But I strongly recommend a remote. Get the Tricklestar remote. It runs as "inclusion controller" with the new driver, you can add devices with it and they instantly pop up in lmce. No "download config" needed any more for network changes. You can also have multiple inclusion controllers.

Quote
* Can I buy whatever Merten switch/dimmer I want and it can be controlled hari-magically ;) without support/compability issues?
Yes. Besides the usb dongle and the "home unit", everything from the merten connect series works. Even the blind shutter switch.

Quote
In case not, Anyone has a list over "supported" switches and dimmers?
 I will then add it to the wiki since I can only find controllers there.
Do yourself a favor and get Merten. Popp/Nuewi has some new devices, but I've not yet tested them.

best regards,
Hari

ps: zwave4u.com is a nice shop
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2008, 09:57:28 pm »
Wow! thanx for the ultrafast response hari.
 Will do some research & budgetcheck but I feel Much more confident of what to buy now.
Will def. go for the remote. Seems like it should be a breeze to add all this things.

Also need to do some research about the whole Zwave functionality I think, reg. interference,channels available and such.
 Guess Zwave is going to be a big seller in the next few years (off course thats also was the salespitch for plcbus).


Br
Johan
(I was seconds away from ordering alot of plcbus devices and just changed my mind)  ;D

hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2008, 10:02:34 pm »
Also need to do some research about the whole Zwave functionality I think, reg. i[nterference,channels available and such.

look at the ZWave_API wiki page. It points to some good documents for basic z-wave understanding.

Quote
Guess Zwave is going to be a big seller in the next few years (off course thats also was the salespitch for plcbus).

yes, this got critical mass. Be prepared to see some very nifty devices in the near future. I've got a prototype of a CO2 sensor for example.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

coley

  • Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 477
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2008, 12:13:19 am »
In a similar vein I'm planning on installing lighting control in my house and possibly heating - when it gets built again ;)
As I'll get some input at first/second fix electrics is there anywhere I can see how a z-wave controlled installation is going to differ from a standard electrical install, for example with light switches, dimming and dual location switching etc. All switches need to be two wire too, I'm assuming, not three which seems to be the more common zwave type.
Also I'm putting in zoned heating, so rooms will have programmable stats, I've only seen one EU stat from http://www.horstmann.co.uk/products.php but can't see much detail on what zwave commands are supported on it, or if it will work in a zoned system.
Any one started from scratch with a zwave control based install? anyone have any comments or having done retrofit would like to have done something differently? Are Merten the only supplier that offer switch inserts?

Ideas?
-Coley.

hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2008, 12:28:04 am »
In a similar vein I'm planning on installing lighting control in my house and possibly heating - when it gets built again ;)
As I'll get some input at first/second fix electrics is there anywhere I can see how a z-wave controlled installation is going to differ from a standard electrical install, for example with light switches, dimming and dual location switching etc. All switches need to be two wire too, I'm assuming, not three which seems to be the more common zwave type.
That is one of the problems with PLCBUS, it needs 3 wires as it uses powerline for communications.
Regarding Z-Wave, e.g. the Merten Superdimmer only needs 2 wires, like the electronic switch insert. The relay switch insert needs neutral. ACT has both 2 and 3 wire switches. I don't know about others like Nuewi/Popp and so on..

Quote
Also I'm putting in zoned heating, so rooms will have programmable stats, I've only seen one EU stat from http://www.horstmann.co.uk/products.php but can't see much detail on what zwave commands are supported on it, or if it will work in a zoned system.
Any one started from scratch with a zwave control based install? anyone have any comments or having done retrofit would like to have done something differently? Are Merten the only supplier that offer switch inserts?
there are others. I've tested Merten and ACT. I recommend Merten.

br, Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2008, 10:57:43 am »
Just have to ask. I can get good prices from Eljo which has the same series as Merten and both are manufactured by schneider. Do you see any issues with using Eljo Connect series as switches instead of Merten?

The merten prices where just ridiculus.. Really expensive.

Also I heard that Zwave uses Mesh topology for routing and there may(person I was talking to said WILL) be problems with slow response times and even possibly that no traffic will be routed since the signalling will considered as background noise. He was recommending Zigbee instead. Have you seen anything indicating that the above may happen with Zwave components?  Guess you only use a few switches and not 10 or more that you control(?)


Br
Johan
Btw, Great work with the Symbian. Best christmas gift ever!

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4426
  • Smart Home Consulting
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2008, 11:20:03 am »
Just have to ask. I can get good prices from Eljo which has the same series as Merten and both are manufactured by schneider. Do you see any issues with using Eljo Connect series as switches instead of Merten?

The merten prices where just ridiculus.. Really expensive.

Also I heard that Zwave uses Mesh topology for routing and there may(person I was talking to said WILL) be problems with slow response times and even possibly that no traffic will be routed since the signalling will considered as background noise. He was recommending Zigbee instead. Have you seen anything indicating that the above may happen with Zwave components?  Guess you only use a few switches and not 10 or more that you control(?)


Br
Johan
Btw, Great work with the Symbian. Best christmas gift ever!

Hi Johan,

I have not tested the Eljo products but since they are ZWave compatible I am sure they will work fine. It will come down to their physical style and quality etc really as they must interoperate with other products that also meet the ZWave standard. We ourselves have Merten, ACT, Tricklestar, Seluxit, Innovus, and Everspring ZWave products in our test area and in customer installs and they all work together without any problems.

As to your comment about Mesh networks... well Zigbee also uses a Mesh type network so any problems would affect both systems! In fact however Mesh networks improve as you add more devices not deteriorate! As the Mesh grows in size then in most circumstances the networks ability to 'route' packets around problem areas improves and the whole network becomes more resilient to loss of access to a given node.

We have networks with 15-25 devices in them and we see not problems at all.

All the best

Andrew
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom

Read My Blog; http://ellipticalcurve.com

Contact me for Smart Home consulting advice here;
@herron on Twitter, totallymaxed+consulting@gmail.com via email or PM me here.

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2008, 03:44:35 pm »
well that is excellent news!

Good to hear that someone is using this alot. I will install 10 devices to start with just to get going and then add more later.
Thanks!

Br
Johan


hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2008, 06:25:37 pm »
Just have to ask. I can get good prices from Eljo which has the same series as Merten and both are manufactured by schneider. Do you see any issues with using Eljo Connect series as switches instead of Merten?

The merten prices where just ridiculus.. Really expensive.
yes, those seem to be the exact same devices. Do you know a shop for schneider/Eljo with good prices?

Quote
Btw, Great work with the Symbian. Best christmas gift ever!
you are welcome!

br, Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 09:56:39 pm »
=) the shop is actually a friend of mine having good % off the sales-prices, However we have not checked how much though. Just counting on that it will be cheaper than Merten. Let's see. waiting for prices still  :-\


-johan

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2009, 04:33:50 pm »
ok, just received some prices and I am confused.
there are three systems in both eljo and merten. connect, system M and system design.

It Looks like when buying the Basic connect you don't need an insert as you need for the System M. So what is is that you guys use?
-johan

hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2009, 05:30:24 pm »
it is all CONNECT. Go read that product document again :-)

br, Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

johanr

  • Veteran
  • ***
  • Posts: 144
    • View Profile
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2009, 07:06:57 pm »
yes that is true..
well need some more sleep and less nightworks.. What I meant was more like:
If I buy the merten/eljo Connect with no inserts only a receiver in the switch/dimmer, will that be able to communicate and tell or let the Core know that the light is turned on Locally.
 Or do I need the M-series which consists of (as I've understood it) a receiver pad and transmitter insert(possibly the other way around) for that to happen.

Irritating that the connect product series info folder is very unclear of what you really need. Sorry hari for these trivial questions.

-johan


hari

  • Administrator
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *****
  • Posts: 2421
    • View Profile
    • ago control
Re: Zwave necessary components for easy integ
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2009, 08:29:03 pm »
no worries. If you want an in wall dimmer in white, style M-Plan, then you need the following:

577099 - this is the dimmer itself
502644 - this is the z-wave dimmer paddle
486144 - this is the frame for a single switch

or say a on/off switch in aluminium:

576799 - electronic switch
502460 - z-wave on/off paddle
486160 - frame

The paddles and the frames are available in dozens of colors and in two styles (M-Plan and Design).

There is a merten switch configurator, runs on wine.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation