Author Topic: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows  (Read 1019 times)

rodercot

  • Guest
Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« on: August 26, 2008, 02:07:26 pm »

 Hey all,

 Wondering about this, If I reboot my XP workstation I see all my computers in NN in windows.

 dcerouter, MD's, Windows pc's etc...

 Leave it idle for a a while come back and there maybe 2 of 7 showing, I can search for the pc and find it ofcourse. All my pc's are in the LMCE workgroup I have no mapped drives setup from this Xp station or any for that matter. Just wondering if ping to keep alive needs to be checked for these devices and that is fine if so for an actual LMCE device but what about Unknown Devices.

 rgds,

 Dave

Zaerc

  • Alumni
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *
  • Posts: 2256
  • Department of Redundancy Department.
    • View Profile
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2008, 03:21:15 pm »

 Hey all,

 Wondering about this, If I reboot my XP workstation I see all my computers in NN in windows.

 dcerouter, MD's, Windows pc's etc...

 Leave it idle for a a while come back and there maybe 2 of 7 showing, I can search for the pc and find it ofcourse. All my pc's are in the LMCE workgroup I have no mapped drives setup from this Xp station or any for that matter. Just wondering if ping to keep alive needs to be checked for these devices and that is fine if so for an actual LMCE device but what about Unknown Devices.

 rgds,

 Dave

I suggest you go to m$ and tell them to fix their shitty "NN", as it has never really worked properly in the past and apparently still doesn't. 
"Change is inevitable. Progress is optional."
-- Anonymous


rodercot

  • Guest
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2008, 04:31:57 pm »
Zaerc,

 I do agree with you on NN being buggy and always has! BUT, it was fine Before the LMCE workgroup was setup. 

 *Update* It does seem to be only on this workstation. I just checked the others and they all seem to be fine. I will look at the settings. This is an Nvidia Nic on this machine so who knows.

 Dave
« Last Edit: August 26, 2008, 04:35:34 pm by rodercot »

colinjones

  • Alumni
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *
  • Posts: 3003
    • View Profile
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2008, 10:56:22 pm »
Dave

The NN is compiled by the Computer Browser service (and yes it has always been crap!)

The basic idea is that computer browser compiles a NetBIOS list of all machines by broadcasting on the local segment.

Everytime a PC starts up, or several other events, it triggers an election process where all the machines on the same segment decide on a Segment Master Browser and Backup (among other things)

The machine then becomes responsible for compiling the list and distributing it, but also for contacting all the other Segment Master Browsers to exchange/merge lists with them to see what is going on outside the segment - remember, you can't broadcast outside a segment so you need one of these for each segment. Then there is a "Domain" Master Browser, that consolidates for a domain and exchanges lists with other domains. Not sure how that works in workgroups.There are other things like which network agents you have you stack that effect how many browsers there are and what they are responsible for. But pinging isn't involved and won't fill in your browse lists. Perhaps start by checking your network stack has all the same components as your other PCs and the same version/SP of Windows, then add it to a different workgroup, reboot, add it back, reboot. Might help

rodercot

  • Guest
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2008, 04:12:42 pm »
Hi Colin,

 Yes! thanks for that heads up, I read alot about this yesterday but in all the posts about all over Google, I was not able to find one post on how to change it. I did find a tech issues on M$ site but it had to do more with PDC and AD's from 2000 and NT but not for workgroup setups. it is a major problem as you can tell just by seraching Google for the problem, I found nearly 300 pages of the same issue.

 As Lmce is the DHCP server, would broadcasting from the core to the workgroup not solve this problem. Like! Hey! All PC's I am the master browser 192.168.80.1. I also thought about dropping a 192.168.80.1 address into the wins server box to try it and see after a reboot if it would fix it. I did stumble onto a couple threads using the Nvdia Nic where following the SP2 update Windows would install HEX numbers into the network connection entries in the registry but this issue resulted in not being able to see your local are connection from NN, not anything to do with actual computers in NN.

 Your reply is correct and likely IS the problem. I have tried browstat on this machine but it does not seem to be an XP program by default and I cannot find and exe locally on this machine for it or on the web for that matter, I also serached the reg for any instances of browser or master browser but get no data in return.

 Dave

colinjones

  • Alumni
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *
  • Posts: 3003
    • View Profile
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2008, 12:06:37 am »
You should find browstat in the NT Resource Kit.

No, its not just any old broadcast, it has to be specific netbios broadcasts from the browser services. And adding a wins server setting is only going to confuse matters, esp if you don't actually have a wins server! Wins is used for name resolution like dns whereas browsing is just for awareness that the machines are there, so not the same thing.

In your windows system log you will see a computer browser election process occuring every time a computer reboots, and which is the current master etc (browstat, too). You can stimulate elections manually by restarting the browser. You can also change which pc gets the service with reg hacks or special entries in the LMHOSTS file.

Perhaps force the browser service to different machines, and give it time to reassemble the browse list (takes a little time) and see if the PC your browser service is sitting on is having difficulty creating the list. Also, just make sure that all your network node types are hybrid or 0x8 and that all firewalls (windows or 3rd party) are completely turned off whilst you do this testing.

rodercot

  • Guest
Re: Computers Dissappearing from NN in Windows
« Reply #6 on: August 28, 2008, 01:13:31 pm »
Hey Colin,

 While I do not want to count my chickens just yet, I added Linuxmce to the security - intranet settings - sites in explorer, even though windows firewall is off it was still seeing my intranet devices in NN as "The Internet" instead of "Local Network"

 Well! I rebooted and after doing so and all my pc's have remained in the "NN" overnight and are still there now, which is about 12 hours longer than they have before. So I will keep checking and update later.

 This is a common thing and would make sense to me as the pc's that were in the list were from my old workgroup and certain machines are no longer even on the system so revamping that list could I guess update the tables as required.

 Dave