Author Topic: nvidia 7050  (Read 3259 times)

skeptic

  • Addicted
  • *
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
nvidia 7050
« on: February 08, 2008, 07:48:49 pm »
I'm sourcing components for a linuxMCE setup and I'm not sure the way to go for video.  The performance numbers for the 6150 and 7050 look fairly close, but any little bit could help.  I've also seen that the 7050 PV contains more HDTV features (purevideo), all of which may not be in the linux drivers yet.  However, I have also seen a number of posts that refer to instability of the driver.  Has the instability been fixed, or is it expected to be in 0710?  I intend to wait for the official 0710 before I jump in and install linuxMCE.

I have also read a number of threads about video tearing with UI2 and alpha blending.  Is this something that can be fixed with a dedicated nvidia video card?  What I've read is fuzzy on this. 

For now, this will go on my ooooold 480p HDTV with component/s-video inputs only, but may quickly be moved to my 720p HDTV with HDMI inputs.  Testing has shown that component input is much better than s-video on my 480p TV, so I need component inputs.  I have read some conflicting info that says an nvidia 7050 with s-video out is actually a mini-din that supports either s-video or with a break-out cable YPrPb component.  I know s-video is a 4 pin connector, and  ones I'm seeing on the MBs are 7 pin connectors.  Actual YPbPr connectors seem few and far between, and after looking through dozens of MBs trying to figure out which is best for me I don't even remember if there were any 7050pv boards with actual YPbPr connectors, but there are 7050PV boards with s-video.

This isn't yet another "which MB should I buy" post, although I'm open to suggestions.  I'm just trying to figure out what features I need, then I'm going to try to find a board that best meets my needs.  Once it's all done and tested I will make an entry on the hardware wiki 'cause that's what people here keep talking about even though it seems a bit pointless to me.  Having a repository of good info like this sounds like a good idea, but MBs change so often that listing by MB just doesn't seem to be working well.  Having the Mainboard section broke down by component (ie 7050PV onboard video) with MB examples and specific MB notes as needed would be MUCH more useful as it's the components/features that what most questions seem to relate to.  But I digress, I want to help linuxMCE succeed so I'll play ball and list my equipment once I have a working setup.

Ultimately I will be building at least 6 MDs, possibly more, so going as cheap as possible and as consistent as possible is the goal.   At least 5 will be connected to various SD, 480P, and 720P devices via various connections, and a more powerful MD will be connected to a 1080p HDTV.


Sorry for the long winded post, as a recap:

Does a MB with onboard nvidia 7050pv graphics and s-video connection support component YPbPr through a simple cable or do I need a board with dedicated YPbPr connections (possibly only with 6150)?

Is the driver for nVidia 7050PV stable or expected to be stable with linuxMCE 0710?

What is required to avoid tearing when running 480p/720p, faster CPU, more memory, current drivers, dedicated video card?

royw

  • Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2008, 10:54:39 pm »
I have also read a number of threads about video tearing with UI2 and alpha blending.  Is this something that can be fixed with a dedicated nvidia video card?  What I've read is fuzzy on this. 

For now, this will go on my ooooold 480p HDTV with component/s-video inputs only, but may quickly be moved to my 720p HDTV with HDMI inputs.

While alpha blending is cool, I've decided I prefer a plain UI2 - the text is easier to read.  Especially at 480 (old 56" sony rear projection - videoscope xbr).

I'm using an nvidia 7600 GS and with alpha blending experienced an occasional 1 second tear about once or twice a movie.  Just recently turned off alpha blending and have not noticed any tearing (only watched 2 movies).  More aggravating is the slowing frame rate that seems to happen about once a week necessitating a reboot.

The s-video should be fine for the 480p.  I'm connected as:  nvidia -> s-video ->  via s-video to yamaha rx-v861, then component to tv.

I've ordered a 7050 MB (MSI K9NGM3-FIH) to give it a try but have a nvidia 8600 GTS (GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H) as backup.

HTH,
Roy

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2008, 03:06:31 am »
I'm sourcing components for a linuxMCE setup and I'm not sure the way to go for video.  The performance numbers for the 6150 and 7050 look fairly close, but any little bit could help.  I've also seen that the 7050 PV contains more HDTV features (purevideo), all of which may not be in the linux drivers yet.  However, I have also seen a number of posts that refer to instability of the driver.  Has the instability been fixed, or is it expected to be in 0710?  I intend to wait for the official 0710 before I jump in and install linuxMCE.

I have also read a number of threads about video tearing with UI2 and alpha blending.  Is this something that can be fixed with a dedicated nvidia video card?  What I've read is fuzzy on this. 

For now, this will go on my ooooold 480p HDTV with component/s-video inputs only, but may quickly be moved to my 720p HDTV with HDMI inputs.  Testing has shown that component input is much better than s-video on my 480p TV, so I need component inputs.  I have read some conflicting info that says an nvidia 7050 with s-video out is actually a mini-din that supports either s-video or with a break-out cable YPrPb component.  I know s-video is a 4 pin connector, and  ones I'm seeing on the MBs are 7 pin connectors.  Actual YPbPr connectors seem few and far between, and after looking through dozens of MBs trying to figure out which is best for me I don't even remember if there were any 7050pv boards with actual YPbPr connectors, but there are 7050PV boards with s-video.

This isn't yet another "which MB should I buy" post, although I'm open to suggestions.  I'm just trying to figure out what features I need, then I'm going to try to find a board that best meets my needs.  Once it's all done and tested I will make an entry on the hardware wiki 'cause that's what people here keep talking about even though it seems a bit pointless to me.  Having a repository of good info like this sounds like a good idea, but MBs change so often that listing by MB just doesn't seem to be working well.  Having the Mainboard section broke down by component (ie 7050PV onboard video) with MB examples and specific MB notes as needed would be MUCH more useful as it's the components/features that what most questions seem to relate to.  But I digress, I want to help linuxMCE succeed so I'll play ball and list my equipment once I have a working setup.

Ultimately I will be building at least 6 MDs, possibly more, so going as cheap as possible and as consistent as possible is the goal.   At least 5 will be connected to various SD, 480P, and 720P devices via various connections, and a more powerful MD will be connected to a 1080p HDTV.


Sorry for the long winded post, as a recap:

Does a MB with onboard nvidia 7050pv graphics and s-video connection support component YPbPr through a simple cable or do I need a board with dedicated YPbPr connections (possibly only with 6150)?

Is the driver for nVidia 7050PV stable or expected to be stable with linuxMCE 0710?

What is required to avoid tearing when running 480p/720p, faster CPU, more memory, current drivers, dedicated video card?

As long as you avoid Alpha Blending then the current nVidia drivers and the 6100, 6150, 6200 and the 7050 chips will handle UI2 without tearing at 720p. The 6150 and 7050 will handle UI2 at 1080P without tearing to.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

skeptic

  • Addicted
  • *
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2008, 03:18:18 am »
I have also read a number of threads about video tearing with UI2 and alpha blending.  Is this something that can be fixed with a dedicated nvidia video card?  What I've read is fuzzy on this. 

For now, this will go on my ooooold 480p HDTV with component/s-video inputs only, but may quickly be moved to my 720p HDTV with HDMI inputs.

While alpha blending is cool, I've decided I prefer a plain UI2 - the text is easier to read.  Especially at 480 (old 56" sony rear projection - videoscope xbr).

I'm using an nvidia 7600 GS and with alpha blending experienced an occasional 1 second tear about once or twice a movie.  Just recently turned off alpha blending and have not noticed any tearing (only watched 2 movies).  More aggravating is the slowing frame rate that seems to happen about once a week necessitating a reboot. 
I've never seen linuxMCE live so I don't really have much to go on, I've just read some posts claiming that not using alpha blending just plain looks bad.  I've also heard mention of UI3, but I'm not clear on if that's UI2+alpha blending or something different.  Either way, as long as UI2 without alpha blending looks good I'm not too concerned about it for now.
Quote

The s-video should be fine for the 480p.  I'm connected as:  nvidia -> s-video ->  via s-video to yamaha rx-v861, then component to tv.

I've ordered a 7050 MB (MSI K9NGM3-FIH) to give it a try but have a nvidia 8600 GTS (GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H) as backup.

HTH,
Roy

If I could find a way of getting YPbPr off the TV-Out header on that board I'd buy it, it's one of 3 MBs I'm semi-narrowed down to.  I know there are a ton of variables, but at least with my TV I see a noticeable quality difference between s-video and YPbPr when using various DVD players.  If I can't get YPbPr from the 7-pin s-video cable and there are no other easy/cheap ways to do it I can guess I can suffer with s-video for now.  On the other hand, I HAVE seen nvidia based graphic cards (not MBs with embedded graphics) that include an s-video to YPrPb cable but for the life of me I can't find an answer to the question of if that cable will work with all nvidia based 7-pin s-video connections or even where to buy one if it would work.

I have to ask, are you planning to run s-video from that motherboard?  As far as I can tell there isn't an s-video connection, just a little mentioned tv-out header for which I have not been able to find a single s-video or component attachment.
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K9NGM3-FIH&class=mb

jondecker76

  • Alumni
  • wants to work for LinuxMCE
  • *
  • Posts: 763
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2008, 04:41:50 am »
My motherboard has a 6150 and I'm completely pleased with it. I run UI2 with Alpha blending, and I've only seen tearing a very few times.  The only major difference between the two that I can see is that the 7150 supports HDMI. Really, I don't think you can go wrong with either

royw

  • Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 261
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2008, 04:58:05 am »
I've never seen linuxMCE live so I don't really have much to go on, I've just read some posts claiming that not using alpha blending just plain looks bad.  I've also heard mention of UI3, but I'm not clear on if that's UI2+alpha blending or something different.  Either way, as long as UI2 without alpha blending looks good I'm not too concerned about it for now.

UI2 with alpha blending has translucent background for the various menus and popups.  Without alpha blending, the backgrounds are opaque.  I find the opaque background easier to read.  YMMV

There is a discussion going on in the developers forum for the next generation UI which is referred to as UI3.

I've ordered a 7050 MB (MSI K9NGM3-FIH) to give it a try but have a nvidia 8600 GTS (GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H) as backup.

I have to ask, are you planning to run s-video from that motherboard?  As far as I can tell there isn't an s-video connection, just a little mentioned tv-out header for which I have not been able to find a single s-video or component attachment.
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K9NGM3-FIH&class=mb

I'm planning on using the HDMI connector to my A/V receiver.  There is an optional TV-Out Connector (JTV1) with component and s-video.

Have fun,
Roy

colinjones

  • Alumni
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *
  • Posts: 3003
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2008, 09:07:16 am »
I have been using 7050PV chipset for over a month now, and I am increasingly convinced that it is the source of my video problems. Specifications are borderline similar to 6150, but I am definitely going to buy a card rather than use the integrated video and a much higher spec. I had lots of tearing problems initially, especially at 1080p, but even at 720p. The biggest issue at the moment is continuously slow frame rate, even though CPU is low (5200+ so plenty of grunt).

BTW - ignore the PV, it does nothing for you. It is primarily a H.264/VC1 hardware decoder, but is not used at all in Linux (M$ stitched that up!) and there is almost no evidence that nVidia intend on changing that. There have been petitions and complaints to nVidia about this from the Linux/FOSS community since early last year, and still no change.

I would strongly recommend a separate card and higher specs than 7050PV based on my experience given what you are looking to do in some areas. But can't recommend something specifically yet.

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2008, 10:27:17 am »
My motherboard has a 6150 and I'm completely pleased with it. I run UI2 with Alpha blending, and I've only seen tearing a very few times.  The only major difference between the two that I can see is that the 7150 supports HDMI. Really, I don't think you can go wrong with either

I 100% agree with you. Either will deliver excellent performance... we have load of systems using one or other of these chips and they just work.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2008, 10:38:28 am »
I've never seen linuxMCE live so I don't really have much to go on, I've just read some posts claiming that not using alpha blending just plain looks bad.  I've also heard mention of UI3, but I'm not clear on if that's UI2+alpha blending or something different.  Either way, as long as UI2 without alpha blending looks good I'm not too concerned about it for now.

UI2 with alpha blending has translucent background for the various menus and popups.  Without alpha blending, the backgrounds are opaque.  I find the opaque background easier to read.  YMMV

There is a discussion going on in the developers forum for the next generation UI which is referred to as UI3.

I've ordered a 7050 MB (MSI K9NGM3-FIH) to give it a try but have a nvidia 8600 GTS (GIGABYTE GV-NX86S256H) as backup.

I have to ask, are you planning to run s-video from that motherboard?  As far as I can tell there isn't an s-video connection, just a little mentioned tv-out header for which I have not been able to find a single s-video or component attachment.
http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?model=K9NGM3-FIH&class=mb

I'm planning on using the HDMI connector to my A/V receiver.  There is an optional TV-Out Connector (JTV1) with component and s-video.

Have fun,
Roy


Roy we agree. We always use UI2 without Alpha Blending partly because in general video playback is far better (I would say essentially indistinguishable from a high-quality DVD player having tested this with many  people now) and we also agree that the transparency effect although technically brilliant in real use becomes soemwhat distracting and for some people make the usability of the UI not very good.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

skeptic

  • Addicted
  • *
  • Posts: 615
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2008, 06:30:36 am »
Thanks for all the helpful replies.  I was afraid I'd get a bunch of "use the search" responses like I've seen in several other threads...  Threads I read while spending hours searching and not finding answers to my specific questions.   ;D  BTW, finding the motherboard section in the hardware wiki (the one with a number of boards listed, not the one with 8 or so) isn't easy, and if I hadn't seen it linked from various posts here I may never have stumbled on it.

Since my immediate need would be best filled with component YPrPb at a measly 480p resolution, and my 720p HDTV has a PC (VGA) connection, along with a lingering question of solid stable drivers for the 7050 I think I'll try to find a board with a 6150 and component outputs.  I'm in the process of ripping all my DVDs to H.264 and hope to get a Blu-ray player at some point down the road, so I'm disappointed that the PV stuff is unlikely to be supported ever.  I knew it wasn't supported yet, but I was hopeful it would be soon.  I've been a long time supporter of nVidia, but if another company comes out with H.264 hardware acceleration and either supplies a linux driver supporting it or opens the api allowing a native driver to be properly written I'll switch.  In the mean time I'll just plan on building a beefy MD with a dedicated video card when I buy a 1080p HDTV. 

I haven't gone in the developers section yet, but I'll check it out as I'm curious about UI3.

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2008, 12:29:29 pm »
I have been using 7050PV chipset for over a month now, and I am increasingly convinced that it is the source of my video problems. Specifications are borderline similar to 6150, but I am definitely going to buy a card rather than use the integrated video and a much higher spec. I had lots of tearing problems initially, especially at 1080p, but even at 720p. The biggest issue at the moment is continuously slow frame rate, even though CPU is low (5200+ so plenty of grunt).

BTW - ignore the PV, it does nothing for you. It is primarily a H.264/VC1 hardware decoder, but is not used at all in Linux (M$ stitched that up!) and there is almost no evidence that nVidia intend on changing that. There have been petitions and complaints to nVidia about this from the Linux/FOSS community since early last year, and still no change.

I would strongly recommend a separate card and higher specs than 7050PV based on my experience given what you are looking to do in some areas. But can't recommend something specifically yet.

Hi again Colin. We can see no performance difference measurable in 'normal daily use' between the 6150 & 7050 (PV version included). I don't agree that buying a 'higher spec' nVidia card is in anyway worth it currently for LinuxMCE applications - you just will not see any performance gain at all in our experience. Adding a 6200 class card to a motherboard with say Intel GMA900 or 950 will gain you some significant benefit. But again in comparison to the 6100/6150/7050 the 6200 class boards are essentially equivalent in 'everyday usage'... whatever the nVidia spec says!

nVidia are very good at what we call here in the UK 'Product line diversification'... which allows them to position products, that are essentially the same, into different segments of the market.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

colinjones

  • Alumni
  • LinuxMCE God
  • *
  • Posts: 3003
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2008, 01:40:24 pm »
Totallymaxed - any suggestions then why I am getting such poor video performance? In all sources (TV(Nova T 500), video files (hundreds of the, all different kinds, low and high bitrates), DVDs, etc)

The video is very jerky and low frame rate even on real time sources like DVB. Pans are unwatchable! Sometimes as low as 5-10 frames per second. I have rebuilt so many times, and no difference.

fibres

  • Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 306
    • View Profile
    • LinuxMCE 08.10 RC Mirror.
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2008, 02:49:21 pm »
Hi colin.

I experienced that on the board running on my current core on the 0710b2

It installed fine but ran slow as anything playing the video on the setup wizard, to the point of becoming unusable and being unable to set it up.
I switched to the vesa drivers and got the setup done and then installed the laest nvidia drivers.
Try swapping to a generic driver and see what video playback is like.

Regards

cirion

  • Guru
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
    • View Profile
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2008, 03:17:36 pm »
0710b2 does not have the correct drivers for the 7050pv so they have to be manually uppgraded.
0710b3 does have the correct drivers for the 7050pv.

I have 2 of these motherboards:
http://www.uabit.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=32&Itemid=48&page=1&model=383

And I had no problems with gfx in 0710b3

totallymaxed

  • LinuxMCE God
  • ****
  • Posts: 4351
    • View Profile
    • Dianemo - at home with technology
Re: nvidia 7050
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2008, 06:14:43 pm »
Totallymaxed - any suggestions then why I am getting such poor video performance? In all sources (TV(Nova T 500), video files (hundreds of the, all different kinds, low and high bitrates), DVDs, etc)

The video is very jerky and low frame rate even on real time sources like DVB. Pans are unwatchable! Sometimes as low as 5-10 frames per second. I have rebuilt so many times, and no difference.

No I dont sorry. But I know from experience that we as a company do not have those problems here on dozens of 32bit and 64bit systems using 6100, 6150, 7050 and 6200 graphics hardware. I use personally at home a i945 motherboard with a 2.8Ghz processor and with only 512mb RAM and a nVidia 6200 card and i see none of those problems at all. I guarantee you my family would let me know if my home system was doing what you descriobe ;-)

So i therefore feel totally confident that whatever is causing your system to perform the way it does for you is caused by something that is peculiar to your setup.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
@herron

Dianemo S Now Shipping on Ubuntu 12.04LTS
Build your system on the latest Ubuntu LTS OS Release!

Get a Dianemo S License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.0
iOS Orbiter: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Dianemo_iOS_Orbiter
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk