Author Topic: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!  (Read 2387 times)

colinjones

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Guys,

Given that we all constantly spend inordinate amounts of time explaning the basic network setup for LMCE, and given that those that need it explained regularly misunderstand how much impact it generally has, I have put up a simply wiki page with diagrams that we can all use as an explanation "short circuiter"!

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Network_Setup

I haven't yet linked this page into anything particular in the rest of the wiki - so can you (esp thom, andrew, hari, tk, zaerc, possy, gol, etc) all make suggestions of which pages we can place links in, strategically so that we hopefully no longer even get the questions in the first place? Also, categories that we should put this under.... [troubleshooting]?

golgoj4

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2009, 05:54:46 am »
groovy! i sent people to the one on my page sometimes but I like that you have multiple setups to help people visualize it.
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colinjones

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2009, 06:00:56 am »
groovy! i sent people to the one on my page sometimes but I like that you have multiple setups to help people visualize it.

Thanks... feel free to flesh it out with any info from yours that may be missing!
Col

itsmeok

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2009, 07:25:08 am »
Could you mention what happens if your core is also a MD. Hybrid setup ?

Did not wanted to start editing your page..

It is very helpfull page. I quess this is time well spent.

colinjones

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2009, 07:51:38 am »
I thought I did? Will take a look and add if not...

colinjones

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2009, 07:58:02 am »
OK, I mentioned Hybrids in the text associated with one of the actual pictures. I have now added a small extra paragraph to the main article - but its fairly trivial as whether it is a dedicated core or a hybrid doesn't effect the networking one bit.

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2009, 11:30:37 am »
Guys,

Given that we all constantly spend inordinate amounts of time explaning the basic network setup for LMCE, and given that those that need it explained regularly misunderstand how much impact it generally has, I have put up a simply wiki page with diagrams that we can all use as an explanation "short circuiter"!

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Network_Setup

I haven't yet linked this page into anything particular in the rest of the wiki - so can you (esp thom, andrew, hari, tk, zaerc, possy, gol, etc) all make suggestions of which pages we can place links in, strategically so that we hopefully no longer even get the questions in the first place? Also, categories that we should put this under.... [troubleshooting]?


Nice work Colin :-)

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Zaerc

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2009, 02:01:15 pm »
Good job mate!
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posde

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2009, 05:55:59 pm »
Colinjones,

looks nice, especially with the text.

A small note however:
Most Home automation equipment is connected to the core via RS-232 or USB  and not via Ethernet to the switch.
Printers are mostly connected to the MDs or the Core, only lately do the network connected printers appear in regular households.

Also, you might want to look at the following diagram, we used during LinuxTag 2008. http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Image:Diagram1.jpg

Dale_K

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #9 on: February 25, 2009, 06:00:27 pm »
Nice job, my network is slightly different, I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning in your wiki.

I plug my core external interface into my switch so it goes BROADBAND ROUTER > SWITCH > CORE EXTERNAL AND HOME PC/PRINTERS/ETC.

I then have another switch plugged into the internal interface of the Core so it goes: CORE INTERNAL > SWITCH2 > MD'S

There is no advantage to this other than keeping my network traffic separate and not having to worry about configuring port forwarding on both my router and core for my PC's.

golgoj4

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2009, 07:11:58 pm »
Nice job, my network is slightly different, I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning in your wiki.

I plug my core external interface into my switch so it goes BROADBAND ROUTER > SWITCH > CORE EXTERNAL AND HOME PC/PRINTERS/ETC.

I then have another switch plugged into the internal interface of the Core so it goes: CORE INTERNAL > SWITCH2 > MD'S

There is no advantage to this other than keeping my network traffic separate and not having to worry about configuring port forwarding on both my router and core for my PC's.

While your setup may not be the same, I would still encourage you to add it to your user setup page. The more info the merrier I say!
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colinjones

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2009, 10:28:42 pm »
Colinjones,

looks nice, especially with the text.

A small note however:
Most Home automation equipment is connected to the core via RS-232 or USB  and not via Ethernet to the switch.
Printers are mostly connected to the MDs or the Core, only lately do the network connected printers appear in regular households.

Also, you might want to look at the following diagram, we used during LinuxTag 2008. http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Image:Diagram1.jpg


Possy - absolutely agreed, I realise that on both the printer and HA points, however 1) I was running out of space and 2) I was _very_ keen to ensure the diagram _really_ reinforced that there was no/low impact by installing LMCE by keeping the visual simplicity. And strictly speaking, it is possible that the network be set up in the way I drew it! I like the LinuxTAG diagram, it is more accurate and specific, but doesn't serve the purpose of showing the progression in your network as you install, nor retain visual simplicity for comparison.... hmmm will have a think about how I can include those features without cluttering the diagram.....

colinjones

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #12 on: February 25, 2009, 10:53:57 pm »
Nice job, my network is slightly different, I'm not sure if it's worth mentioning in your wiki.

I plug my core external interface into my switch so it goes BROADBAND ROUTER > SWITCH > CORE EXTERNAL AND HOME PC/PRINTERS/ETC.

I then have another switch plugged into the internal interface of the Core so it goes: CORE INTERNAL > SWITCH2 > MD'S

There is no advantage to this other than keeping my network traffic separate and not having to worry about configuring port forwarding on both my router and core for my PC's.

I understand what you are saying, Dale, at a Data Link layer your network and my diagram are identical. The purpose of the article is most definitely not to show all or even many of the possible networks. It is expressly to demonstrate that one particular valid network requires almost no change to your existing home network. Specifically, I see very regularly people getting knickers in a knot about having to "completely change my network" because they read they need 2 different networks, and mustn't use their existing DHCP service or firewall service and need to buy an extra switch. This is bourne of them reading a full description of the LMCE networking system. What they don't do is then think this network through and distill it in their minds to see that the simplest implementation of the LMCE network design requires none of that - its nothing more than inserting the core between router and switch. They can continue to use their DHCP service on their bb router, any firewalls they are currently using if they want (you and I know its irrelevant, but this is getting them over the conceptual line to see there is no impact), and don't need a new switch...

Naturally, there are many other designs that can be implemented, but the purpose here is not to enumerate all the possibilities - that would just add to the confusion - it is to demonstrate clearly that in at least one design, there is no impact at all.... after all, the commonest problem that we are all having to address with newbies all the time is exactly this misunderstanding that LMCE requires major change to "my baby". I would say that nobody here claims that a major source of discussion around networking with newbies is providing them with all the possible network designs so that they can select one :) I think, perhaps a separate article aimed at enumerating possible designs would be very useful, targetted at the more experienced user. I just wanted a simple article link we could all use to drop into any conversation that is heading down that annoying path, just to kill it off :)

Other network points that I deliberately avoided for the same reasons are: wifi on the bb router can't be used on the LMCE network, you need another AP; some broadband devices such as some cable modems are bridges not routers; some people have a standalone router between broadband device and core even when the bb device isn't a bridge; still others like yourself have a switch in there; and some only have a NAS, nothing else on their internal network and given that almost all NICs these days are auto MDI-X, the internal switch isn't even required then... etc....

Thanks all for your feeback...!

EDIT: Just added a disclaimer to this effect at the bottom of the article...
« Last Edit: February 25, 2009, 11:03:54 pm by colinjones »

Techstyle

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 06:52:01 am »
This is a great idea. 

I have added a network diagram to my user page also.

http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/User:Techstyle

golgoj4

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Re: Network Setup Diagram - all board members that regularly support newbies!
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2009, 09:48:28 pm »
This is a great idea. 

I have added a network diagram to my user page also.

http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/User:Techstyle

Thanks for the addition!
Those people who tell you not to take chances, they are all missing what life's all about.

Wiki Hardware Page http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Langstonius