Author Topic: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)  (Read 6508 times)

skerit

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Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« on: January 27, 2008, 09:13:50 pm »
I'm currently *drowning* in all these different technologies... I thought X10 was the way to go, 'till I read a lot of reports of it being too slow and too unreliable.

I live in Europe, in Belgium, and although I got excited when I read all about Insteon, I also read it's only available for American electrical networks? Then I don't really know what to do, actually...

X10 is so old, it's universally supported but also outdated. Insteon is compatible with X10 but it's not available here (right?). I don't know what to think about all the others, I read that Zwave is too proprietary to use it reliably, and the "wireless only" thing kinda puts me of, actually (having a big house, you'd probably need a lot of signal boosting-devices)

Does anyone else in here have a good European Home Automation solution?

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2008, 09:20:43 pm »
i recommend Z-Wave or PLCBUS for LMCE in Europe.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2008, 09:35:07 pm »
PLC-Bus?

Hah, looks a lot like Insteon, indeed... It's kinda hard to find a decent seller for it, apparantly.

But, euhm, does LMCE really support it? (I only see 4 protocols in the wiki: X10, EIB, Insteon & ZWAVE)

And, correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the latest Zwave producs didn't support linux anymore.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2008, 09:37:18 pm by skerit »

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2008, 09:38:05 pm »
PLC-Bus?

Hah, looks a lot like Insteon, indeed... It's kinda hard to find a decent seller for it, apparantly.
not as sophisticated as Insteon. elekhomica.nl has it in stock.

Quote
But, euhm, does LMCE really support it? (I only see 4 protocols in the wiki: X10, EIB, Insteon & ZWAVE)
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/PLCBUS

ddamron is working on a GSD for it.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2008, 09:49:09 pm »
you may want to follow development: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=3608.0
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2008, 10:07:35 pm »
Ah, that's a nice webshop. I was worried about the different types of sockets (I didn't even know Holland's sockets differ from the ones in Belgium) but luckily (and I actually just realized this just now, loi) our appliances support both sockets.

I'll follow that thread religiously. It's been quite an interesting read so far, actually.

I really like the openness of PLCbus, as opposed to Zwave's closed source model. (And it's wireless, meh..)

Why is Insteon more sophisticated, anyway? Sure, it has that EZbridge-possibility ...

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far!

jondecker76

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2008, 12:56:23 am »
X10 is kind of slow (about 2 seconds to see results to your actions) but reliability has not been bad at all in my opinion (as long as you properly couple the phases in your wiring!). When set up right, I don't think I've ever noticed anything fail (i've had an extensive X10 setup for years). Though it is limited (I.e.  you can't poll a light for example to see if its on). Insteon does seem much nicer, but that also means more expensive!  I think X10 is a very reasonable inexpensive solution - it has done very well for me over the last several years!

ddamron

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2008, 01:51:26 am »
Ah, that's a nice webshop. I was worried about the different types of sockets (I didn't even know Holland's sockets differ from the ones in Belgium) but luckily (and I actually just realized this just now, loi) our appliances support both sockets.

I'll follow that thread religiously. It's been quite an interesting read so far, actually.

I really like the openness of PLCbus, as opposed to Zwave's closed source model. (And it's wireless, meh..)

Why is Insteon more sophisticated, anyway? Sure, it has that EZbridge-possibility ...

Anyway, thanks for all the help so far!

Heh, good question!

to add to that:  Right now, I'm looking at 2 piles on my desk:
1 is X10 protocol, and the other is Insteon Protocol.

The X10 Protocol is about 4 pages.
The Insteon Protocol is about 4 inches thick. =)

It's more sophisticated because it NEEDS to be.  Each Insteon device is 'smart'.
Each device manages it's own internal database of the switches it knows about.

In a way, it's like a DISTRIBUTED database.. Switch A may control switches B & C, but not know anything about D.

Switch D may control (or be controlled by) switches E&F etc.

It's also been designed with a LOT of forethought.  Lighting control is only 1 part of Insteon (well, 2 actually, dimmable lighting and switched lighting)
The protocol extends to medical/health/safety, Security, Toys, Plumbing, etc etc etc.

HTH

Dan
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skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2008, 08:33:56 am »
Ah, I see!
That sounds quite nice, actually.

I've heard they plan on releasing Europe-compatible devices mid-2007; so it could be worth the wait for Europe? (As the cost doesn't seem to differ much compared to PLCBus devices...)

Patience isn't one of my strong points though, hehe.

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2008, 01:13:15 pm »
Ah, I see!
That sounds quite nice, actually.

I've heard they plan on releasing Europe-compatible devices mid-2007; so it could be worth the wait for Europe? (As the cost doesn't seem to differ much compared to PLCBus devices...)

Patience isn't one of my strong points though, hehe.
they promised that for years and got really ****** when people asked for a release date...

i would not hold my breath..

br Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2008, 01:43:07 pm »
Ah .. Hmm, well, when it does come out it'll probably take a while before some shop nearby sells it, so I'll go with PLCbus then. (In fact, I think I'll order them today, hehe)

And nothing's really lost, is there? When Insteon does come along I can always use them side by side. (I'm only planning on doing a few rooms now, I'll always have a less-important use for an "inferior" format, hehe :))

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2008, 02:10:59 pm »
Ah .. Hmm, well, when it does come out it'll probably take a while before some shop nearby sells it, so I'll go with PLCbus then. (In fact, I think I'll order them today, hehe)

And nothing's really lost, is there? When Insteon does come along I can always use them side by side. (I'm only planning on doing a few rooms now, I'll always have a less-important use for an "inferior" format, hehe :))
thats also my intention. I use PLCBUS in my living room (so no phase coupler needed) and love the crystal scene controller ;) WAF is very high ;)
The rooms on other phases and things like Thermostat/PIR/Sensors will be attached over Z-Wave.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2008, 02:32:01 pm »
What the .. I was just browsing the contents on the Elekhomica page and suddenly -- the catalog's gone!

Loi, I hope they're only doing this so nobody can order those products before 15:00 anymore (then they'll have to send it the same day)

Guess I'll have to wait a day longer  :D

I really hope to use orbiters extensively, and no other devices (although I am curious what that crystal scene controller looks like :P)

Something bugs me about that "phase coupling" thing though, every phase coupler is for 1 phase or 3 phases.. but doesn't every regular home have 2 phases? So, is a coupler still needed then ???

(Soo much to discover! :P Sorry, I know this isn't a forum regarding Home Automation, but still ... :))

hari

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2008, 04:11:53 pm »
What the .. I was just browsing the contents on the Elekhomica page and suddenly -- the catalog's gone!

Loi, I hope they're only doing this so nobody can order those products before 15:00 anymore (then they'll have to send it the same day)

hae? I dropped them a mail and keep you posted.

Quote
Something bugs me about that "phase coupling" thing though, every phase coupler is for 1 phase or 3 phases.. but doesn't every regular home have 2 phases? So, is a coupler still needed then ???
I've never seen a house with only 2 phases as the transformation station delivers rotary current (380/400V). The circuits are then distributed over L1, L2 and L3 (heating, lightning/plugs, rooms, big appliances, ...)

The phase coupler gets installed before the circuit breakers in the box and simply transmits all commands (with the 3 phase bit set on) on every phase.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

skerit

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Re: Home Automation Protocols (X10, Insteon, Zwave, ...)
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2008, 04:39:56 pm »
Hehe, I sent them a mail too... I hope we're not the only ones planning on buying plcbus devices from them :P

Ah, and that does make sense in some way, but still, lighting & appliances only have phase 1, 2 and neutral..

Errr, I'll ask our electrician about this, he's coming around tomorrow.