Author Topic: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...  (Read 1720 times)

mog

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Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« on: January 16, 2008, 05:49:17 pm »
Hi! I was enticed by your LinuxMCE video, very pretty stuff. But after trying for several days of getting everything to which i've been mostly successefull with i'm ending up asking myself why i'm not just running MythTV instead.

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

Turns out there's not that many must-have features LMCE has to make up for the effort and development time required to set it up.

LinuxMCE 0704 didn't...
...have European download mirrors for the 0704 DVD
...have well seeded torrents of the DVD ISO
...let me know that i needed Kubuntu 7.04 ISO to install, but crashed at end of install with an obscure error about DeCSS not installing.
...let me switch between dedicated MD/Kubuntu desktop (without searching the forums)
...leave my network alone (it wants to be dhcp+dns+gateway on it's own network)
...give me the option to autodetect my monitor
...have a good weborbiter
...have a native Linux or OSX orbiter
...use my network shares because they had spaces in them (DISK 1 and DISK 2)
...have an easy to use web admin
...recognize .mkv as video.
...recognize my remote (it gets handled as a keyboard through /dev/input)

and the last drop is that it won't detect my .mkv files to play HDTV movies from the network.

The things i think need the most improvement is:
• Documentation. The wiki is good but more people need to make an effort to document it.
• Getting errata and bugfixes out to the users. LMCE 0704 is quite old by now.

Also searching for issues in the forum gives me flamewars instead of help. Users asking about something and then getting bashed for not searching. Please improve the documentation, errata & bugfixes, it'll help get rid of stupid questions.

I hope this will be used as constructive criticism and used to improve future versions

Hipper

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 06:38:04 pm »
Well put, constructive criticism is always useful and I hope no one takes what you have said personally.
I have found some of the same issues that you have but I kind of expected them in an open source project like this.

At this point I would say the most frustrating thing is the documentation. There is a lot of great info on the Wiki but it's a bit unorganized, some things are not up to date and
it's hard to navigate. I am a software engineer by trade so I know how hard it is to get good documentation when you are paying people, let alone when the work is done for free ;)
I would love to help with it but right now don't have much free time and I'm still too much of a LMCE newbie that I'm afraid I would make things worse.

tkmedia

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 07:26:29 pm »
You guys may want to wait a year or start pitching in yourselves.  No flame intended.

You have some valid points but some of the issues are by design ie DHCP server. (Provides plug n play).

Most issues are based on the limited but growing list of hardware


This project has come a long way in less than a year (since the pluto fork)

I for one would like to applaud the efforts of everyone involved. (Including of course Pluto Home)

Great Jobs guys keep up the good work.

and  Yes we can always improve it.

Cant wait to see what the next year brings.


Thanks

Tim
My Setup http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Tkmedia

For LinuxMce compatible  systems and accessories
http://lmcecompatible.com/

Hipper

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2008, 07:51:10 pm »
I agree 100% I love what's been done too and hope to contribute to it as soon as I can.

There's no way I waiting a year, I'm hooked, I love open source and I'm a hacker at heart :D
I have been looking for LMCE for a wile now and its just right for me, I don't care if I have to spend hours getting it to work that's part of the fun.
I can deal with no documentation as long as I have the source code ;)
I just think we should speak openly about what we think is wrong and not fell like we are going to get our heads ripped off in the forum.

colinjones

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2008, 08:12:23 pm »
Its still a very new project - much work to do....

Hi! I was enticed by your LinuxMCE video, very pretty stuff. But after trying for several days of getting everything to which i've been mostly successefull with i'm ending up asking myself why i'm not just running MythTV instead.

http://www.mythtv.org/modules.php?name=MythFeatures

Turns out there's not that many must-have features LMCE has to make up for the effort and development time required to set it up.

LinuxMCE 0704 didn't...
...have European download mirrors for the 0704 DVD
These are by donation, if you know of any that would be willing to provide the service, then contribute - community project, nothing happens without contribution! Either way, its not the end of the world, download from another mirror :)
Quote
...have well seeded torrents of the DVD ISO
Did you download the torrent? If not, then you have your answer. If you did - are you still seeding? No one can change this except the downloaders.
Quote
...let me know that i needed Kubuntu 7.04 ISO to install, but crashed at end of install with an obscure error about DeCSS not installing.
Seems like two separate issues - don't understand the first. Yes you need an operating system is you are installing from CDs, the DVD is a bundle that includes the OS....?
The second sounds like you were trying to play a DVD and the dvdcss decryption library wasn't installed. This is normal and is a simple package to add, that can't be by default for legal reasons around copyprotection - its mentioned frequently in the wiki, but last I looked, was not something that jumped out at you unless you were looking for it!
Quote
...let me switch between dedicated MD/Kubuntu desktop (without searching the forums)
...leave my network alone (it wants to be dhcp+dns+gateway on it's own network)
If you are setting up a standalone LMCE machine, this isn't relevant. It does nothing to your network, just turn off the DHCP if its on. If you are setting up an LMCE environment with MDs, then this is only relevant as it only applies to the internal network and doesn't touch your existing network - assuming that you set it up as described in the wiki and forums, with 2 NICs! Again, this is clearly described in the wiki, but it certainly could be placed more promonently for people just starting and looking for how to download, like with the DVD version scratching your whole HDD!
Quote
...give me the option to autodetect my monitor
That would be nice :) in fact a lot of things around displays and resolution would be nice soas to avoid modlines, etc!
Quote
...have a good weborbiter
Not played with it much, but looked OKish for a simple web product. Could certainly improve a lot with the discussion about UI3 going on at the moment
Quote
...have a native Linux or OSX orbiter
That would be nice, at least a Linux one!
Quote
...use my network shares because they had spaces in them (DISK 1 and DISK 2)
This is a bug that has been fixed - get 0710beta2 or 3 in the next couple of days. If you're interested in the project improving, you should be using this anyway ;)  0704 is sooooo yesterday, as you say!
Quote
...have an easy to use web admin
Unfortunately, this is reflective of the very sophisticated internal architecture of LMCE. Its ugly and cumbersome, but not actually that hard once you get used to it. Sadly, it would be nice to say this isn't important because it is only very advanced tasks that need it, but there are still some "user" tasks that need it too. I'm sure this will get better as the product evolves.
Quote
...recognize .mkv as video.
Relatively new outside of HD. But has been added now - again, get the 0710 version
Quote
...recognize my remote (it gets handled as a keyboard through /dev/input)
A few people seem to have that issue, I'm pretty sure I have seen threads on HID stuff, do a search...
Quote

and the last drop is that it won't detect my .mkv files to play HDTV movies from the network.

The things i think need the most improvement is:
• Documentation. The wiki is good but more people need to make an effort to document it.
Agreed, lots of good info, but the structure isn't the best to ensure that you come across the important stuff as a newbie in the process of looking into LMCE or downloading.
Quote
• Getting errata and bugfixes out to the users. LMCE 0704 is quite old by now.

Also searching for issues in the forum gives me flamewars instead of help. Users asking about something and then getting bashed for not searching. Please improve the documentation, errata & bugfixes, it'll help get rid of stupid questions.

I hope this will be used as constructive criticism and used to improve future versions

To address your first question - if you just want live TV and PVR functionality, then yes, you have picked the wrong product. Go with Mythbuntu. Assuming you are in Europe, then another reason to use 0710 is that VDR can be chosen instead of Myth - it was designed for DVB which you are using, and so will integrate better.

hari

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2008, 08:32:00 pm »
Quote
...have a native Linux or OSX orbiter
That would be nice, at least a Linux one!
there is a native orbiter for linux. I'm running it on my laptop. As there are few dependencies I assume it should not be hard to compile it for OSX.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

Matthew

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2008, 11:18:13 pm »
Quote
...have a native Linux or OSX orbiter
That would be nice, at least a Linux one!
there is a native orbiter for linux. I'm running it on my laptop. As there are few dependencies I assume it should not be hard to compile it for OSX.

I'm not sure I understand that problem either. What is the Orbiter installed on my Hybrid (atop Kubuntu), if not a "native orbiter for Linux"?

Also, that Orbiter has Home -> LinuxMCE -> KDE Desktop for switching between Orbiter and desktop (they're really just two X workspaces, one the Orbiter the other a KDE desktop), so I'm not sure about that other problem mentioned.

Maybe the main problem, a legitimate one, is the documentation (and the "intuitiveness") of just using the Orbiter. Maybe a video as exciting as the overall promotional one, that guides a tour through the Orbiter and Adminsite, would satisfy the people not interested in stumbling around the dark, kicking over surprise gifts...

mog

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Re: Things that LinuxMCE didn't...
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 02:18:59 am »
Its still a very new project - much work to do....

Quote
...have well seeded torrents of the DVD ISO
Did you download the torrent? If not, then you have your answer. If you did - are you still seeding? No one can change this except the downloaders.
No, it was too slow only got 20kbps after a few minutes, the europan CD mirrors were much faster.
In retrospect i regret not getting the DVD, i think it would have made my install easier and would have removed a few bullets from my list. I updated the download mirrors wikipage with this info.

Quote
Quote
...let me know that i needed Kubuntu 7.04 ISO to install, but crashed at end of install with an obscure error about DeCSS not installing.
Seems like two separate issues - don't understand the first. Yes you need an operating system is you are installing from CDs, the DVD is a bundle that includes the OS....?
The second sounds like you were trying to play a DVD and the dvdcss decryption library wasn't installed. This is normal and is a simple package to add, that can't be by default for legal reasons around copyprotection - its mentioned frequently in the wiki, but last I looked, was not something that jumped out at you unless you were looking for it!
Look at this thread to see what i mean.
http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=3028.0

Quote
Quote
...leave my network alone (it wants to be dhcp+dns+gateway on it's own network)
If you are setting up a standalone LMCE machine, this isn't relevant. It does nothing to your network, just turn off the DHCP if its on. If you are setting up an LMCE environment with MDs, then this is only relevant as it only applies to the internal network and doesn't touch your existing network - assuming that you set it up as described in the wiki and forums, with 2 NICs! Again, this is clearly described in the wiki, but it certainly could be placed more promonently for people just starting and looking for how to download, like with the DVD version scratching your whole HDD!
My cabling setup doesn't allow for LMCE to have 2 nic's in the way you describe. I don't even want LMCE to do all the plug&play i'm happy to tell it what devices there are but this seemed to cumbersome. I ended up setting up a new subnet with a static router on  my OpenWRT router.

My routers dhcp server wasn't able to ignore certain DHCP clients. I suppose i could block the dhcp traffic through a firewall though... Maybe i should try this and put in the wiki.

Quote
Quote
...give me the option to autodetect my monitor
That would be nice :) in fact a lot of things around displays and resolution would be nice soas to avoid modlines, etc!
Quote
...have a good weborbiter
Not played with it much, but looked OKish for a simple web product. Could certainly improve a lot with the discussion about UI3 going on at the moment

Sorry but it's a CRAP. When you enter text you have to click on an onscreen keyboard in an imagemap. And i have to wait for the page to load before i can enter the next character.

Quote
Quote
...use my network shares because they had spaces in them (DISK 1 and DISK 2)
This is a bug that has been fixed - get 0710beta2 or 3 in the next couple of days. If you're interested in the project improving, you should be using this anyway ;)  0704 is sooooo yesterday, as you say!
I would have liked to try 0710 but i was recommended to stick with 0704 if i wanted something that worked. Anyway considering the state 0704 is in what can i really expect from the development release.

Quote

The things i think need the most improvement is:
• Documentation. The wiki is good but more people need to make an effort to document it.
Agreed, lots of good info, but the structure isn't the best to ensure that you come across the important stuff as a newbie in the process of looking into LMCE or downloading.
Quote
Quote
• Getting errata and bugfixes out to the users. LMCE 0704 is quite old by now.

Also searching for issues in the forum gives me flamewars instead of help. Users asking about something and then getting bashed for not searching. Please improve the documentation, errata & bugfixes, it'll help get rid of stupid questions.

I hope this will be used as constructive criticism and used to improve future versions

To address your first question - if you just want live TV and PVR functionality, then yes, you have picked the wrong product. Go with Mythbuntu. Assuming you are in Europe, then another reason to use 0710 is that VDR can be chosen instead of Myth - it was designed for DVB which you are using, and so will integrate better.
Interesting.

Quote
...have a native Linux or OSX orbiter
That would be nice, at least a Linux one!
there is a native orbiter for linux.

I didn't spend much time looking for orbiters after i found the weborbiter, sorry if i missed it.
Is this the same oriber as is used on media directors? I assumed it was only usable as a media director but perhaps i'm wrong.