Author Topic: HA in Australia  (Read 6006 times)

RichardP

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2008, 08:03:31 am »
RichardP - for what its worth, I'm interested in HA in AU as well. Can't really do much on the coding side. But looking for a reliable, fast (so not X10!), bidirectional system at a reasonable price. Very interested in what Dan is upto at the moment with Hari on PLCBUS...

The bidirectional bit is part of my concern as well. I'm leaning towards PLCBus at present, but one of my concerns is reliability. When you have your lights controlled by some electronic gizmo, you don't want the system to start behaving strangely every time someone uses a radio in a police car outside, or if the temperature climbs into the 40s. With CBus, I knew the system was bulletproof. With PLCBus or Insteon, I don't yet know that.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not alone. I think there are around 4 now who have stood up to be counted. Once we make a decision on which system to go with, we may be able to buy together and reduce prices through bulk buying.

Best Regards,
Richard

ddamron

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2008, 08:14:48 am »
Iaye karumba!
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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colinjones

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2008, 01:37:31 pm »
Iaye karumba!

Well said :)

Have to say (with no disrespect to Dan's efforts), I am glad we have a "coder" in Australia now, cos it will help this very small market stand on its own two feet rather than rely on "charity" from people like Dan :)

BTW - I have 4 VSP's expressing interest in creating the config files for Asterisk in AU, now. And one of them gave me a list of about 50 of his franchisees to approach as well.

RichardP

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2008, 06:09:22 am »
Iaye karumba!

Well said :)

Have to say (with no disrespect to Dan's efforts), I am glad we have a "coder" in Australia now, cos it will help this very small market stand on its own two feet rather than rely on "charity" from people like Dan :)

BTW - I have 4 VSP's expressing interest in creating the config files for Asterisk in AU, now. And one of them gave me a list of about 50 of his franchisees to approach as well.

Well what are we waiting for. I say we get cracking on Asterisk - what say you?
Best Regards,
Richard

totallymaxed

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2008, 08:57:57 am »
RichardP - for what its worth, I'm interested in HA in AU as well. Can't really do much on the coding side. But looking for a reliable, fast (so not X10!), bidirectional system at a reasonable price. Very interested in what Dan is upto at the moment with Hari on PLCBUS...

The bidirectional bit is part of my concern as well. I'm leaning towards PLCBus at present, but one of my concerns is reliability. When you have your lights controlled by some electronic gizmo, you don't want the system to start behaving strangely every time someone uses a radio in a police car outside, or if the temperature climbs into the 40s. With CBus, I knew the system was bulletproof. With PLCBus or Insteon, I don't yet know that.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not alone. I think there are around 4 now who have stood up to be counted. Once we make a decision on which system to go with, we may be able to buy together and reduce prices through bulk buying.



Well we've been using z-wave now for over 18 months and we have numerous installations now and in all that time we have not had a single report of any kind of radio interference - it just does not happen in our experience. Zensys have put a lot of money and effort into the radio hardware and firmware and it hass been 100% interference free todate.

That is not to knock Insteon or PLCbus in anyway at all... but dont' rule out z-wave based on concerns over interference ;-)

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ddamron

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #20 on: January 12, 2008, 11:09:40 pm »
With Insteon, the more devices you have, the stronger the signal..

and both protocols can send a confimation.. (as I'm sure zwave does)

With my setup, the 'only' time I've had my lights 'freak out' is when I've made a boo boo in programming...
(wife didn't like that...)
heh, it was interesting though.. I was attempting to get the status of each light, and forgot to ignore the message I sent to myself... (and had a conversion problem)...

All the lights started going crazy.. hehe, it as freaky!

anyway, the point is, with pretty much all the newer technologies, interference is pretty much a thing of the past...

Regards,

Dan
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RichardP

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2008, 03:10:29 am »

Well we've been using z-wave now for over 18 months and we have numerous installations now and in all that time we have not had a single report of any kind of radio interference - it just does not happen in our experience. Zensys have put a lot of money and effort into the radio hardware and firmware and it hass been 100% interference free todate.

That is not to knock Insteon or PLCbus in anyway at all... but dont' rule out z-wave based on concerns over interference ;-)



I didnt' mean to give the impression that I was ruling it out.  I was just saying what sort of things I was considering important in my selection of which technology to go for.

The possibilities that I know of currently are:
  • CBus
  • CBus Wireless
  • X10
  • Z-Wave
  • Insteon
  • PLCBus

X10 was never really a contender because it is not a reliable, biderectional protocol. What I mean is that when you press a switch on one X10 device, to turn on a light, it may end up turning the light off instead, because the light was already on and the switch did not know it. In other words, it is not bidirectional. It's also not reliable, because a signal sent from one X10 device to another may never get to it's destination, and the original X10 device will not know about it.

CBus has been discounted, because although it meets all my other criteria, I cannot install it in an existing house without a lot of expensive wall-cutting and restoration.

CBus-Wireless will fill my needs nicely, but before I use it, I need to determine if Insteon or PLCBus will fill my needs better, or if they will fill my needs just as well, but at a lower cost.

The problem I have at the moment is that I don't know enough about them to make a decision. So at present, I'm poring the net and the supplier's websites to get a better understanding of them, and the discussion in this forum is also part of the education process.

Best Regards,
Richard.
Best Regards,
Richard

ddamron

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2008, 05:20:22 am »
X10 was never really a contender because it is not a reliable, biderectional protocol. What I mean is that when you press a switch on one X10 device, to turn on a light, it may end up turning the light off instead, because the light was already on and the switch did not know it.
Richard,

I don't know what kind of X10 you have.. but the X10 I have doesn't work like that.
there are seperate ON and OFF commands.. so it should be IMPOSSIBLE for a device to TOGGLE state..
If that is the case, you have other problems.. like maybe a bad script?

Although it's not widely known (or used), X10 HAS been expanded to support bidirectional communication.
That said, they are still DUMB devices, and even IF a device reports it's status, you still have all the other limitations of the ageing X10 protocol.

I'd compare it to a bicycle to a motorbike..
The Bicycle will eventually get you there, with lots of effort, but the motorcycle is much more fun (imo).

It might not be a bad idea to review the X10 specs...

HTH,

Dan
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darrenmason

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2008, 11:57:35 pm »

The possibilities that I know of currently are:
  • CBus
  • CBus Wireless
  • X10
  • Z-Wave
  • Insteon
  • PLCBus


I am close to buying some PLCBus stuff, but have not had a chance to sit down and work out exactly what and where from.
I think Z-Wave would be the only other option at the moment but I have not seen any sign of it being used here (Australia) and certainly no distributors/retailers.

Insteon will not be an option until they have a 220V/50Hz range.

Have you found anyone in Australia that will actually sell PLCBus gear to you. There seems to be companies bringing it in but they are all using it as part of full solution offerings.

I am really against it costing more than say $80 per switchable lamp/appliance/whatever. I just can't really justify it over that I think.

But I agree, we should be able to do a bit of bulk buying on some or maybe even convince a distributor to take it on.

Regards
Darren

ps; Richard, where are you? I am in Sydney.

RichardP

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2008, 03:21:02 am »
It might not be a bad idea to review the X10 specs...

Dan

Will do. However, tell me something - do I have the right idea when I say some of the other protocols like Z-Wave and/or Insteon are essentially X10 with the missing bits put in? If so, I'll just go with the newer protocols. The thing is that you have some existing X10 gear and so need to keep backward compatability. I don't - I'm able to start fresh and make sure anything and everthing I add to my network is bulletproof from the outset.
Best Regards,
Richard

tschak909

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2008, 03:21:53 am »
Z-Wave has ZERO compatibility with X-10.

-Thom

RichardP

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2008, 07:41:32 am »


Insteon will not be an option until they have a 220V/50Hz range.

Have you found anyone in Australia that will actually sell PLCBus gear to you. There seems to be companies bringing it in but they are all using it as part of full solution offerings.

I am really against it costing more than say $80 per switchable lamp/appliance/whatever. I just can't really justify it over that I think.

But I agree, we should be able to do a bit of bulk buying on some or maybe even convince a distributor to take it on.

Regards
Darren

ps; Richard, where are you? I am in Sydney.

Hi Darren,

I'm in Melbourne. If we work together in any way, if we need anying physical sent between us, I know someone who travels between Melbourne and Sydney relatively often and works in the city.

As for the cost, I think PLCBus gear will fit comfortably into that sort of pricerange, and some of the others might as well.

Do you have a set preference for PLCBus? I'm currently facing off between Z-Wave (recently found there is a 220V option), PLCBus and CBus-Wireless (which is interoperable with CBus wired).

As for the Australian supplier - if there is no local supplier, I want to become a distributor, so I would see that as a positive. I'm hoping to sell LMCE systems (or even Pluto) once I get my own off the ground. That said, I should say I'm not trying to make you my first customer! I'm seeing you as someone with the same interests, who would be valuable as a way of getting another (local) expert opinion, and who might validate my thinking, or show up the flaws in them.

And if we do decide to go in the same direction, then there is still the possibility of a combined order which will reduce costs for both of us. Horrible how shipping can often come to more than the cost of the product intself.  :o

Best Regards,
Richard.
Best Regards,
Richard

darrenmason

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2008, 12:04:24 pm »
Richard,

No no real preference, just seemed like the easiest route at the moment. The interfacing with Z-Wave seems to still be a bit of problem due to hard to get USB interfaces or unsupported ones - and then the protocol does not seem particularly available.

The USB interface for PLC-BUS has a well supported (in linux) serial interface so that should make it a lot easier to develop. Dan seems to be making good progress already.

Is there many devices available in the 220V Z-Wave range? Cost?

Regards
Darren

colinjones

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2008, 08:10:03 pm »
Darren/Richard

I'm also interested (and also in Sydney) - but somewhat limited as I am renting at the moment (the property I own is leased as an investment, currently), but still prepared to see what I can do with the place. I'm also considering commercial options in the future like Richard.

I always assumed that ZWave came in 220+V options because many of the Europeans (like Andrew in the UK) talked about it. But kinda struck it off my list after reading that the last compatible controller was discontinued, and there didn't seem to be a clear frontrunner replacement - mostly because of the USB chips that the manufacturers kept choosing having limited/no Linux drivers.

X10 is not an option for me (slow/effectively uni-directional - I know, Dan, there is an option, but given your comments, it doesn't sound like the way to go!) Insteon is likely to take some time before there is a siginificant number of devices in the 220/50 range. EIB now called KNX, the European standard, is obscenely expensive! CBus seems pretty proprietary, and inconvenient in anything but the wireless form. PLCBUS seems to be the closest match, unless there is a breakthrough with the ZWave stuff. I think the ZWave stuff will need to battle it out with the 220/Insteon stuff to capture the EU, Asia, AU/NZ markets.

ddamron

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Re: HA in Australia
« Reply #29 on: January 14, 2008, 11:46:13 pm »
It might not be a bad idea to review the X10 specs...

Dan

Will do. However, tell me something - do I have the right idea when I say some of the other protocols like Z-Wave and/or Insteon are essentially X10 with the missing bits put in? If so, I'll just go with the newer protocols. The thing is that you have some existing X10 gear and so need to keep backward compatability. I don't - I'm able to start fresh and make sure anything and everthing I add to my network is bulletproof from the outset.

Yes, Richard, All the missing bits are now 'specced' in the newer protocols..

The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

A:  Red Paint.