Author Topic: Home automation in Europe?  (Read 9978 times)

colinjones

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2008, 11:33:46 pm »
Is it just me or does anybody else have concerns that the PLCBUS info on the various web sites i have read (primarily the ones Hari put in the wiki, but also thru google searches) seems very thin on the ground?

On the 3 main ones (in Singapore, Hong Kong and China), I couldn't even find the actual PC controller interface PLC. A sparse spattering of a few light switches, and RF modules, but not much else. Not exactly an extensive catalogue, and the info/support stuff wasn't very encouraging either. Am I looking at the wrong sites? I did look at plcbus.com.cn ...

posde

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #16 on: January 03, 2008, 08:45:23 am »
Exactly my feelings as well. From my point of view, it might make more sense to "fix" the Z-Wave implementation to support the currently available controllers. The pricing for the components is not that far off, and you have way more choice. At the end of the day you have to have devices to use, and what I have seen on the PLC related sites do not look so promising.

My €0,02.

rgds
Oliver

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2008, 10:03:51 am »
Exactly my feelings as well. From my point of view, it might make more sense to "fix" the Z-Wave implementation to support the currently available controllers. The pricing for the components is not that far off, and you have way more choice. At the end of the day you have to have devices to use, and what I have seen on the PLC related sites do not look so promising.

My €0,02.

rgds
Oliver

Well there is a lot of logic to what you are saying. The reason Z-wave was focused on previously was because of the wide availability around the world of devices. This is still true. So a simple update of the Driver so that it will work with a current production usb interface is I think effort worth expending as it will deliver a quick and useful result.
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

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ddamron

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #18 on: January 03, 2008, 11:07:13 am »
The way I'm implementing 2-way communication is more of a hack..  The proper way, and what the current Zwave device tries, is to implement the communication back via events, not commands..
(I'm currently sending SELF a command from SELF, and ignoring it.  Sounds useless?  Yup.  But it's the only way to 'set' state information.)

The main problem with that is that is was never implemented in LMCE properly, hence there's no events that match the criteria.

Ideally, THAT should be fixed before we 'HACK' too many interfaces..

Bulek has posted bug reports in these regards, and I back him totally.

For what it's worth, zwave is a complicated protocol to begin with.  (more than Insteon, I would say).  and adding 'hacks' to a protocol driver that really is implemented properly, I disagree with.

I'm hoping that the Floorplan Objects, and the HA device objects are updated soon to support more events..  This will GREATLY simplify all HA drivers.

HTH,

Dan

The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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totallymaxed

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #19 on: January 03, 2008, 01:20:49 pm »
The way I'm implementing 2-way communication is more of a hack..  The proper way, and what the current Zwave device tries, is to implement the communication back via events, not commands..
(I'm currently sending SELF a command from SELF, and ignoring it.  Sounds useless?  Yup.  But it's the only way to 'set' state information.)

The main problem with that is that is was never implemented in LMCE properly, hence there's no events that match the criteria.

Ideally, THAT should be fixed before we 'HACK' too many interfaces..

Bulek has posted bug reports in these regards, and I back him totally.

For what it's worth, zwave is a complicated protocol to begin with.  (more than Insteon, I would say).  and adding 'hacks' to a protocol driver that really is implemented properly, I disagree with.

I'm hoping that the Floorplan Objects, and the HA device objects are updated soon to support more events..  This will GREATLY simplify all HA drivers.

HTH,

Dan



Hi Dan,

My suggestion is that we make a 'quick fix' to the current z-wave driver to allow it to support using a currently shipping z-wave usb interface ( the new ACT unit would seem the choice as the current driver already works with the older ACT interface). This would purely be a temporary fix so that z-wave users could actually go and buy an ACT usb interface and use it right now.

In parallel to the above I would suggest that you, Bulek and PeteK (sorry if I've missed someone out!) work on a simple description that pulls together the changes needed to build a new architecture for supporting multiple home control interfaces 'the right way'. This description should pickup and indentify the target functionality & features and then should identify all the known areas in the current lmce environment that would need to be updated to achieve those. I would suggest that we use Insteon & z-wave as the initial target implementations to prove this new approach with.

Our objective needs to be to deliver a robust 2-way framework that delivers on all the areas that you guys have identified and allows for future changes - and delivers elegance, simplicity & flexibility ;-)
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

My Blog; http://ellipticalcurve.com

Get RaspSqueeze-CEC Wifi enabled for Dianemo/LinuxMCE: http://wp.me/P4KgIc-7C

Contact me for Smart Home consulting advice here;
@herron on Twitter, inquiries@ellipticalcurve.com via email or PM me here.

Get a Dianemo License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.msg100221#msg100221
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

hari

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #20 on: January 03, 2008, 10:49:34 pm »
On the 3 main ones (in Singapore, Hong Kong and China), I couldn't even find the actual PC controller interface PLC.
the usb controller is brand new. Watch out, the RF pc interface does not support reading from the bus.

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

hari

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2008, 10:59:04 pm »
Exactly my feelings as well. From my point of view, it might make more sense to "fix" the Z-Wave implementation to support the currently available controllers.
more sense than what? Supporting more interfaces?
I really looked into Z-Wave, but as i can't afford the SDK i can't fix it myself. PLCBUS is available in Europe. There are plenty of devices (micro modules, rf interfaces, rf remotes, tabletop controller, X10 gateway, plugs, really nice switches, USB interface) and the protocol is open. The manufacturer was very responsive to me. The price will fall when more shops stock the products. So i can't use Z-Wave now and can't write a driver for the new zensys chip revision. For now PLCUSB seems the logical way for me. Your mileage may vary.

best regards,
Hari
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 11:04:57 pm by hari »
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

colinjones

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2008, 11:15:50 pm »
Hari - any chance you could let me know who you are dealing with? I would like to ask them if they will be supporting the Type I plug/sockets (Australia/New Zealand/Mainland China/Argentina/Uruguay) with modules, and if they have any distributors here in Australia....

ddamron

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2008, 11:20:43 pm »

Hi Dan,

My suggestion is that we make a 'quick fix' to the current z-wave driver to allow it to support using a currently shipping z-wave usb interface ( the new ACT unit would seem the choice as the current driver already works with the older ACT interface). This would purely be a temporary fix so that z-wave users could actually go and buy an ACT usb interface and use it right now.

In parallel to the above I would suggest that you, Bulek and PeteK (sorry if I've missed someone out!) work on a simple description that pulls together the changes needed to build a new architecture for supporting multiple home control interfaces 'the right way'. This description should pickup and indentify the target functionality & features and then should identify all the known areas in the current lmce environment that would need to be updated to achieve those. I would suggest that we use Insteon & z-wave as the initial target implementations to prove this new approach with.

Our objective needs to be to deliver a robust 2-way framework that delivers on all the areas that you guys have identified and allows for future changes - and delivers elegance, simplicity & flexibility ;-)

Bulek has already identified the problems and posted them in mantis. 

he was WAY ahead of me on these notes.   8)
I have verified his findings and posted comments to Bulek's posts (in mantis)
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

A:  Red Paint.

hari

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2008, 11:48:36 pm »
Hari - any chance you could let me know who you are dealing with? I would like to ask them if they will be supporting the Type I plug/sockets (Australia/New Zealand/Mainland China/Argentina/Uruguay) with modules, and if they have any distributors here in Australia....
you want the AU version (e.g. PLCBUS-R 2026AU for the lamp plug).

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

colinjones

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2008, 11:59:51 pm »
where did you get that from ... :) I couldn't find anything for AU... are you still looking at the NL site, or is this with your contact? Will chase as we discussed.. thanks Hari.

hari

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2008, 12:17:06 am »
where did you get that from ... :) I couldn't find anything for AU... are you still looking at the NL site, or is this with your contact? Will chase as we discussed.. thanks Hari.
http://www.x10-hk.com/store/manual/plcbus/plcbus-2026.pdf lists UK, G and AU styles. I also get that from the price list. But i think i messed up the product code. Omit the "-R".

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

Amathus

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2008, 11:39:20 pm »
We represent PLLC - a company in Australia who has re-designed UPB for 240V markets - release will be March 2008. If u are interested contact Mario Papas from A.CS at mpap4699@bigpond.net.au - I think UPB can easily be added to MCE.

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 12:27:36 am »
Is the 240V 50 Hz version of UPB control interface compatible with the US version? A lot of DIYers are using UPB things here in the US. Its not as fast a network as ZWave but seems easy and cheap to implement. I hope its more reliable than X10 over powerline. it would be nice to have it in LMCE especially if one driver would work worldwide.

darrenmason

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Re: Home automation in Europe?
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 03:29:47 am »
Colin,

I am quite tempted to get some PLCBUS stuff and see what I can get working. Are you still leaning towards this? It seems to me to be the best option for Australia at the moment. Although, it is still a few hundred dollars for what is currently still an experiment. I noticed they have windows drivers only for their USB adapter - but if the documentation is available then we could probably write a linux driver for it.

Mario,

Do you have any idea of the product range and approximate pricing for the UPB stuff?

regards
Darren