Author Topic: PLCBUS  (Read 13484 times)

hari

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PLCBUS
« on: December 30, 2007, 01:49:09 am »
is somebody working on PLCBUS support?

More information:
http://www.plcbus.com.cn/
http://www.futurehomes.com.sg/PLCBUSinfo.htm

EDIT: protocol seems to be open:
http://x10-hk.com/store/manual/plcbus/plcbus-1141.pdf

supports feedback and 200bit/s. Maybe the "insteon" for europe?

best regards,
Hari
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 02:00:55 am by hari »
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ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #1 on: December 30, 2007, 02:03:05 am »
hmm...

Is there a SDK for this protocol?

Doesn't look much more complicated than X10..

Definately not as complex as Zwave or Insteon..

If there's interest, maybe I'll take a stab at it..
I'm in Canada, so it's kinda hard to test it.. I don't have a Isolation transformer...

Thoughts?

I'd kind of like to attempt a higher end protocol next.. KNX maybe...

Regards,

Dan
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hari

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2007, 02:17:57 am »
hmm...

Is there a SDK for this protocol?
Doesn't look much more complicated than X10..
the protocol is very simple. It supports nice features like report all devices, report all on and such:
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/PLCBUS#Command_specification
I think i will order the interface and some plugs.

Quote
I'd kind of like to attempt a higher end protocol next.. KNX maybe...
so expensive..
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ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2007, 02:22:16 am »
1audio pointed me towards echelon... That looks COOL...

How expensive is the PCLBUS stuff??
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
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hari

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2007, 02:41:38 am »
1audio pointed me towards echelon... That looks COOL...

How expensive is the PCLBUS stuff??

just bought at elektrohomika:
71€ for the usb interface
29€ for lamp/appliance plugs

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

1audio

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2007, 04:46:02 am »
The best way to make LMCE indespensible is to support more stuff than anyone else. PLCBUS to Lonworks to Clipsal to Lutron to ??? the more and better the integration the more useful LMCE becomes. As you guys figure it out and document it better we may be able to convince hardware guys to supply the interface software to help sell hardware.

Unfortunately power standards vary a lot around the world. US, Canada and Taiwan share a standard mostly. The rest of the Americas are similar but not quite the same. In the EU, despite "harmonization" it is very country specific. So making stuff for Europe means many different versions of the same thing. And British commonwealth stuff isn't interchangeable beyond 240V 50Hz. The connectors and boxes are different in the different markets. In Japan one side of the country runs on 60 Hz and the other on 50 Hz. Making control products for a niche market for all of these markets is tough.
At the Lonworks site http://www.echelon.com/productdb/default.asp you will see 100's of lighting products for different markets and standards. Each for a specific market niche but most are pretty expensive because of the limited size and volume of the market. (And because of the commercial orientation of the companies.) But an Intermatic ZWave switch is less than $40 because of its large volume and market.
I think LMCE can help drive the utility of these products and get volume up and prices down (and possibly reduce energy use etc. . .). A number of big players also believe domestic automation is a large potential market, and have lost a lot of money testing it. I heard IBM made a push for this 10 Years ago and blew something like $50 million away in two years discovering that its not an easy class of products to sell. Maybe this time it will stick.

ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2007, 05:16:20 am »
1audio,

Well Put!

In my books, we have 2 things above IBM's attempt..

1.  OPEN SOURCE

2.  10 Years more of technology..  Back then, there weren't a lot of players.. now, everybody's competing against each other..

for 30 years, X10 had a HUGE following, (me included) IMHO, this following was ONLY because NOTHING else existed!

X10 is still kicking, I wouldn't discount them yet.. but now that the other standards (zwave, insteon, etc) have actual products, they're going to have to catch up...
and it's gonna be HARD with zwave (eliminating the PLC problems) and Insteon(full X10 compatibility)

As a local radio jockey used to say...
My thoughts, not yours..
(the late Joe Sports)

Dan
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

A:  Red Paint.

ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2007, 08:58:32 am »
I just took a closer look at the spec..
First, I think we'll need more specs.. the technical data doesn't quite cut it..

it states 9600 baud, 1 start bit, 1 length bit, 5 or 6 data bits, 1 stop bit..

I'm assuming the 1 length bit can be combined into the data bits... giving us 1 start, 7 wordbits, 1 stop...

..no mention of parity..

it also states TIMING is critical.. TWO commands must be send WITHIN 12.5ms.. then, NOTHING is transmitted for another 400ms..

this COULD be a problem..
We don't actually 'control' the transmission.. GSD does that...  and I doubt GSD has that level of timing built in..

Not to say it CAN'T be done, it probably can, but it'll take some experimenting..

The rest of the code is SURPRISINGLY CLOSE to X10 go figure, they call it S10... lol

HTH,

Dan
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

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hari

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2007, 03:28:52 pm »
I just took a closer look at the spec..
First, I think we'll need more specs.. the technical data doesn't quite cut it..
i think it should be enough. The homeseer plugin was developed with that information.
Quote
it states 9600 baud, 1 start bit, 1 length bit, 5 or 6 data bits, 1 stop bit..

I'm assuming the 1 length bit can be combined into the data bits... giving us 1 start, 7 wordbits, 1 stop...

..no mention of parity..
i assume it uses 8n1.
The document mixes bits with bytes. The start, length, data and stop "bits" are bytes. This is the frame description and not the serial port configuration.
Quote
it also states TIMING is critical.. TWO commands must be send WITHIN 12.5ms.. then, NOTHING is transmitted for another 400ms..

this COULD be a problem..
We don't actually 'control' the transmission.. GSD does that...  and I doubt GSD has that level of timing built in..
this will only be a problem when we break the command/ack sequence. The 400ms must be a typo, too. The system can handle 10 commands per second (feedback is given after 0.1s). So i assume it should read 40ms.
Quote
The rest of the code is SURPRISINGLY CLOSE to X10 go figure, they call it S10... lol
so you think PLCBUS is S10 compatible?

EDIT: it is 9600,8N1. Look at this: http://board.homeseer.com/showpost.php?p=784294&postcount=74

best regards,
Hari
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 08:42:15 pm by hari »
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ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2007, 11:01:48 pm »
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...

I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..

Let me finish the Insteon..  Ask me again once I release the code.

:)

Regards,

Dan
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
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hari

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2007, 11:16:44 pm »
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...
i'm searching for years to find a reliable cheap two way european (230V/50Hz) solution.
No products for ZigBee
No supported (buyable) 868mhz Z-Wave interfaces for linux
No interfaces for other cheap RF solutions
No reliability or feedback with X10 and other "german" RF solutions from Conrad..
No way to retrofit EIB without insane expenses

Maybe that is the holy grail for HA in europe.. tried to find as much as i can about PLCBUS last night *grin*
Quote
I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..
i hope to get the stuff delivered next week. I will shamelessly rip your findings out of your GSD template *bad grin*   ;D
It should only take some hours to implement simple commands. I'm just digging through the lightning plugin to get more familiar with the topic..

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

ddamron

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2007, 11:23:18 pm »
Heh, Not a problem..
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

A:  Red Paint.

totallymaxed

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2007, 11:54:40 am »
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...
i'm searching for years to find a reliable cheap two way european (230V/50Hz) solution.
No products for ZigBee
No supported (buyable) 868mhz Z-Wave interfaces for linux
No interfaces for other cheap RF solutions
No reliability or feedback with X10 and other "german" RF solutions from Conrad..
No way to retrofit EIB without insane expenses

Maybe that is the holy grail for HA in europe.. tried to find as much as i can about PLCBUS last night *grin*
Quote
I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..
i hope to get the stuff delivered next week. I will shamelessly rip your findings out of your GSD template *bad grin*   ;D
It should only take some hours to implement simple commands. I'm just digging through the lightning plugin to get more familiar with the topic..

best regards,
Hari

I totally agree Hari... PLCBUS looks like a great solution and one that would be great to have working in LinuxMCE.
Andy Herron,
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totallymaxed

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2007, 12:00:34 pm »
Nice Diggin Hari!

Looks like you've done your homework...

I can probably use my Insteon code (more or less) as a template..

Let me finish the Insteon..  Ask me again once I release the code.

:)

Regards,

Dan


Hey Dan if you can re-use your Insteon code as a template that wold be great. PLCBUS would pull in a lot of interest outside N. America. Maybe you can code it such that the Insteon & PLCBUS drivers share some common code libaries with all the protocol dependent stuff (ie Insteon & PLCBUS) pulled out into two separate libraries. That way maintaining/supporting/updating the code for both would be easier... just an idea of course! ;-)
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

My Blog; http://ellipticalcurve.com

Get RaspSqueeze-CEC Wifi enabled for Dianemo/LinuxMCE: http://wp.me/P4KgIc-7C

Contact me for Smart Home consulting advice here;
@herron on Twitter, inquiries@ellipticalcurve.com via email or PM me here.

Get a Dianemo License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.msg100221#msg100221
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

hari

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Re: PLCBUS
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2007, 12:26:07 pm »
I totally agree Hari... PLCBUS looks like a great solution and one that would be great to have working in LinuxMCE.
you can count on me! The hardest part was to find the hardware ;) Should be great for your UK customers, too..

best regards,
Hari
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation