Author Topic: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers  (Read 4595 times)

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2008, 12:40:04 am »
Petek,

Yeah, I know Zwave is bidirectional, I was talking about the driver in lmce..

Even X10 is somewhat bidi.. I'm astonashed that MOST of the drivers aren't bidi..

ahh well, that too will come..

Regards,

Dan
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totallymaxed

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2008, 01:09:17 am »
The current ZWave usb controllers are not supported. Actually its the USB chip that isn't supported under Linux. The leviton controller is a serial interface and could be supported easily but it needs someone who knows how to redirect the ZWave interface to look at the serial port (and deal with the PNP serial detection scripts).

Hmmm... well the ZCU201 seems to be supported but the driver needs to support the update z-wave firmware capabilities. We will hopefully have someone at Pluto looking at this in early Jan and also Dan I think is interested in z-wave too.

The existing Z-wave driver will support the new ZCU201 with minor changes to the driver but has major limitations we hope to have a 2nd generation driver that does 2-way comms soon.

So in summary, are there no Z-Wave controllers that are both currently available and fully supported to your knowledge?

Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd
United Kingdom
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bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2008, 03:05:04 am »
so is the insteon communication 'platform' better than zwave because of the bi directionality? 



what about cost feasibility?  i just graduated (debt!) so cost is a pretty big factor...

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2008, 06:45:34 am »
Both protocols are bidirectional.. it's just the drivers for lmce that support their bidirectional capabilities..

I'm a tech head, and one of the main reasons I went with Insteon was the devkit wasn't going to set me back $4000.

(also, I like the idea of being backward compatible with X10)

Cost factor?  I think their pretty equal.. zwave, you need to buy a controller to link the devices together.. then a interface...

Insteon links devices together by pressing set buttons on each device.. so you don't need a separate controller to link devices together.

I'm not sure of any cost difference between the two types of devices.. other than zwave needing an extra controller...

HTH

Dan
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bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2008, 08:12:03 am »
So how does the bidirectional stuff work?  I understand the concept as it relates to a thermostat:  if you change the temperature locally, the controller knows it (right?)  But what about a lamp?  If I hit the (local) switch on the lamp, the controller I guess knows it's off, but it can't turn it on again, right? 

bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2008, 08:32:57 am »
I think I just have a few questions about HA (if you don't mind) regarding what I want to get from it, and what I should be looking for:


I really want to start simple at first, but eventually move to a full blown LMCE setup.  To begin, I'd like to control just a couple lights.  I want to be able to set timers so lights go on and off when my wife and I are away to discourage burglars and to have lights already be on when we come in after dark.  Eventually, this may expand into more of the realm of security (motion detection, cameras, and maybe even some sort of integration to a full home security system, etc.) motion sensors to turn off lights, thermostats to conserve energy, etc.

What hardware could I purchase now that I can fiddle around with on my Windows Vista PC that will eventually work with a LMCE setup?  Is the Insteon a safe bet?  Would I need to purchase software to use now that I wouldn't need once it's in a LMCE core?

Also, I'm moving this weekend to a new apartment, so I'm not 100% sure which modules I'll need.  I think the living room may have an electrical outlet controlled by a switch to plug a lamp into for the living room.  In that case, I'd need a dimmer switch module, right?  And for other outlets (not switch-controlled) I could do a wire-in outlet module...  And for an outdoor porch light or flood light, I would use a switch module...

Do you have any advice on where to start?

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2008, 10:54:05 am »
So how does the bidirectional stuff work?  I understand the concept as it relates to a thermostat:  if you change the temperature locally, the controller knows it (right?)  But what about a lamp?  If I hit the (local) switch on the lamp, the controller I guess knows it's off, but it can't turn it on again, right? 

Actually, it CAN if it wants to...
anything you do remotely, (meaning using a switch to turn off/on, or dim) gets reported back to lmce.  This allows lmce to MONITOR the system as a whole..
It's not just for lighting...
An X10 Hawkeye PIR sensor and a X10 RF Transceiver are quite cheap, and can easily be implemented as a security device..  when it senses motion, it sends out an X10 signal.  The Insteon PLM interface (also sees X10) sees that signal and reports it to lmce.

HTH

Dan
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ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2008, 10:56:35 am »
I think I just have a few questions about HA (if you don't mind) regarding what I want to get from it, and what I should be looking for:


I really want to start simple at first, but eventually move to a full blown LMCE setup.  To begin, I'd like to control just a couple lights.  I want to be able to set timers so lights go on and off when my wife and I are away to discourage burglars and to have lights already be on when we come in after dark.  Eventually, this may expand into more of the realm of security (motion detection, cameras, and maybe even some sort of integration to a full home security system, etc.) motion sensors to turn off lights, thermostats to conserve energy, etc.

What hardware could I purchase now that I can fiddle around with on my Windows Vista PC that will eventually work with a LMCE setup?  Is the Insteon a safe bet?  Would I need to purchase software to use now that I wouldn't need once it's in a LMCE core?

Also, I'm moving this weekend to a new apartment, so I'm not 100% sure which modules I'll need.  I think the living room may have an electrical outlet controlled by a switch to plug a lamp into for the living room.  In that case, I'd need a dimmer switch module, right?  And for other outlets (not switch-controlled) I could do a wire-in outlet module...  And for an outdoor porch light or flood light, I would use a switch module...

Do you have any advice on where to start?

Here, go to www.smarthome.com and take a look at exactly WHAT insteon is.

Regards,

Dan
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Loki008

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2008, 04:22:42 pm »
Once I finish the Insteon, I will be ready to tackle a new project..
I don't have any zwave devices..
I'm not sure if the next project I tackle will be GSD/Zwave or starting to learn C++
I think C++ would help me more in the long run...
I guess it depends on how BAD Zwave is needed... and if someone is willing to send me some hardware...

I think a capable programmer should only have to purchase equipment ONCE.
I can't afford purchasing zwave (and, honestly, can't rationalize it either)

:)
Dan

A co-worker and myself are really looking forward to zwave support, so we would be willing to send you some hardware to do the development if that is something you would be willing to take on. Let me know what you would need.
Thanks
« Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 02:45:41 am by Loki008 »

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2008, 02:26:28 am »
I've dedicated to PLCBUS next.. and I do believe there is someone else currently working on better zwave support..
PLCBUS shouldn't take me too long though.. we'll see after that.

Regards,

Dan
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bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2008, 03:37:57 pm »
So how does the bidirectional stuff work?  I understand the concept as it relates to a thermostat:  if you change the temperature locally, the controller knows it (right?)  But what about a lamp?  If I hit the (local) switch on the lamp, the controller I guess knows it's off, but it can't turn it on again, right? 

Actually, it CAN if it wants to...
anything you do remotely, (meaning using a switch to turn off/on, or dim) gets reported back to lmce.  This allows lmce to MONITOR the system as a whole..
It's not just for lighting...
An X10 Hawkeye PIR sensor and a X10 RF Transceiver are quite cheap, and can easily be implemented as a security device..  when it senses motion, it sends out an X10 signal.  The Insteon PLM interface (also sees X10) sees that signal and reports it to lmce.

HTH

Dan

But if the power is cut to the lamp locally, how can the controller turn it back on?

Loki008

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #26 on: January 03, 2008, 07:25:04 pm »
So how does the bidirectional stuff work?  I understand the concept as it relates to a thermostat:  if you change the temperature locally, the controller knows it (right?)  But what about a lamp?  If I hit the (local) switch on the lamp, the controller I guess knows it's off, but it can't turn it on again, right? 

Actually, it CAN if it wants to...
anything you do remotely, (meaning using a switch to turn off/on, or dim) gets reported back to lmce.  This allows lmce to MONITOR the system as a whole..
It's not just for lighting...
An X10 Hawkeye PIR sensor and a X10 RF Transceiver are quite cheap, and can easily be implemented as a security device..  when it senses motion, it sends out an X10 signal.  The Insteon PLM interface (also sees X10) sees that signal and reports it to lmce.

HTH

Dan

But if the power is cut to the lamp locally, how can the controller turn it back on?

This is assuming that you used a wall switch to shut off power to the outlet the switch is plugged into.

bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #27 on: January 03, 2008, 07:49:08 pm »
So how does the bidirectional stuff work?  I understand the concept as it relates to a thermostat:  if you change the temperature locally, the controller knows it (right?)  But what about a lamp?  If I hit the (local) switch on the lamp, the controller I guess knows it's off, but it can't turn it on again, right? 

Actually, it CAN if it wants to...
anything you do remotely, (meaning using a switch to turn off/on, or dim) gets reported back to lmce.  This allows lmce to MONITOR the system as a whole..
It's not just for lighting...
An X10 Hawkeye PIR sensor and a X10 RF Transceiver are quite cheap, and can easily be implemented as a security device..  when it senses motion, it sends out an X10 signal.  The Insteon PLM interface (also sees X10) sees that signal and reports it to lmce.

HTH

Dan

But if the power is cut to the lamp locally, how can the controller turn it back on?

This is assuming that you used a wall switch to shut off power to the outlet the switch is plugged into.
oh, okay.  that makes sense now.  the wall switch would have to be insteon too, wouldn't it?

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #28 on: January 03, 2008, 11:34:59 pm »
Yes, the wall switch would be replaced with an Insteon switch.

Also, Insteon DOES support load sensing.. so, in theory, if say you have a table lamp, on an insteon switch, and the table lamp is ON...
if you turn the table lamp off (using it's switch), the Insteon switch SHOULD sense NO LOAD, and send an OFF command.

Now, if an ON command for this table lamp comes in.. the insteon switch should report NACK (or unable to process command due to no load)

This is all in theory, I haven't tested this functionality..

Regards,

Dan
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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2008, 07:51:30 am »
First- use a plug in module for a table lamp. Wall switches should not be wired to outlets unless they are relays (its a fire hazard to plug in some loads to a dimmer).
Second use a plug in module for a table lamp. The good ones intercact well with the lamps switch and will turn themseves on when the lamp is turned on. the cheap ones leave you figuring out if the lamp is burned out, the switch is broken or you need to push the button on the module to get it to turn on. If the Insteon modules report back to the controller you could use that as an event to turn on the other lights in the room for example.
I know the Leviton ZWave modules do load sense. and the early Homepro modules do not. I don't know enough about Insteon, yet.