Author Topic: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers  (Read 5133 times)

Loki008

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Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« on: December 28, 2007, 08:24:59 pm »
I have done some searching, and read the Wiki articles. From what i can tell is that there is development work being done on Insteon and it works, but i didnt see any posts saying hardware compatability for the controlers. As for Zwave i know that the new USB modules do not work, as as far as i can tell the only model that has been tested and confirmed working is a discontinued model that can be difficult to find.

My questions are these. I see that they list PLC as a supported controler, Is http://www.smarthome.com/2414u.html what they are refering to? According to smarthome this is version 2 of the device. As well as from what i have read that the Insteon code is still in development, is it included in the 704 build or is there additional steps required to get this working.

In regards to zwave, are there plans to support the current Intermatic controlers or is the fact that the manufacturer provides only Windows drivers the hold up and there is not much that can be done in terms of support at this time?

Basically i am looking for a controler that is fairly current and available that will allow control of zwave switches and devices.

I have also updated the zwave wiki to reflect that the current intermatic controlers are not supported as well.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 08:32:12 pm by Loki008 »

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #1 on: December 28, 2007, 09:05:18 pm »
Here's what's going to be supported as soon as it's released:

1.  Smarthome PLM (serial)

The PLM is the cheapest controller available.  It's a no bells and whistles serial / Insteon converter.

Probably a few days after:

2.  Simplehomenet's EZBridge / EZServe

The EZBridge/EZServe (same device, different firmware) will allow you to control a REMOTE location.
This device is an IP/Insteon Bridge.  Perfect for a Summer/Winter home...

(The driver is the same for both, I haven't done anything with the EZBridge side for a bit, so I'd like to confirm it's still working with all the new code I've written)

PeteK is/was writing the driver for the PLC..  (yes, the version 2)
Last I heard, I'm not sure if he's going to continue with it.. I know he bought a PLM and has been testing my code...

HTH, Dan

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ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2007, 09:06:02 pm »
Forgot to add..

The EZBridge uses a PLM to communicate to Insteon..
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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Loki008

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2007, 09:09:30 pm »
Thanks for the reply, any vague guestimate when the support may be released?

And i assume that http://www.smarthome.com/2412s.html is the PLM you are refering to? ( i am a bit confused over the PLM and PLC(serial) )
« Last Edit: December 28, 2007, 09:13:37 pm by Loki008 »

colinjones

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2007, 12:14:11 am »
I'm still confused by all these different standards/products! Just so I understand - PLM/PLC/EZBridge/etc are all specific controllers to plug into a core, that then communicate/translate the commands into Insteon? So really its still only Insteon or X10 in terms of the actual devices (dimmers, etc)?

My issue, like the Europeans' is that Insteon don't do non-110v devices, and don't intend to from what I can tell (they said "coming" over a year ago, and I read something recently that said they were US-based and so saw no need to provide alternatives)

And X10 just seems too primitive and slow for words!

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2007, 12:28:51 am »
Ok, Heres some definitions:

PLM - Power Line MODEM --- serial ONLY

PLC - Power Line CONTROLLER both serial and USB, equiv. to the old X10 cm11A
PLC's have smarts in them  timers, a clock, etc.etc..
PLC's (imho) are overkill for this application.

PLM's are cheaper

The PLM integration will include full BIDIRECTIONAL X10 support.

This is all to do with North America... 60HZ ONLY!!!
AFAIK insteon will NOT work on 50Hz as the Insteon signal start BEFORE the zero crossing.. and waits for 2 complete cycles..
the PLL (phase locked loop) timer that 'times' the zero crossings will never get a lock...

the EZBridge is EXPENSIVE($200 including PLM).  It communicates VIA a PLM (has to be connected directly to a PLM)
EZBridge (also EZServe) is smart, like the PLC, but imho, better.

EZBridges will take the Insteon message (out of the PLM) and encode it into an XML message and send it out via IP.

This is why I'm able to create two devices at the same time:  They both 'Speak' the same languase.. within reason.

HTH,

Dan

« Last Edit: December 29, 2007, 01:12:54 pm by ddamron »
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ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2007, 12:55:03 am »
Oh, as far as when it'll be released,

I'm FIGHTING my way through PnP autodetection right now..

The Driver spiders the Insteon network, and finds all devices it can..
That works.

The part I'm on now, is reporting this information to LMCE, and getting LMCE to run the wizard to ask which room this device is in...
I'm TRYING to get it to blink the light (if it's a light)

Once that is done, a few days debugging (I've debugged most of it already)
My goal is for the new year..
Hopefully, that will be before the OFFICIAL release date of 0710.. and I MAY get it into 0710 in time...

Cross your fingers...

If it doesn't make 0710, I've been assured it can be released as a quick update to 0710.

HTH

Dan
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1audio

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2007, 04:40:12 pm »
The current ZWave usb controllers are not supported. Actually its the USB chip that isn't supported under Linux. The leviton controller is a serial interface and could be supported easily but it needs someone who knows how to redirect the ZWave interface to look at the serial port (and deal with the PNP serial detection scripts).

totallymaxed

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2007, 04:51:05 pm »
The current ZWave usb controllers are not supported. Actually its the USB chip that isn't supported under Linux. The leviton controller is a serial interface and could be supported easily but it needs someone who knows how to redirect the ZWave interface to look at the serial port (and deal with the PNP serial detection scripts).

Hmmm... well the ZCU201 seems to be supported but the driver needs to support the update z-wave firmware capabilities. We will hopefully have someone at Pluto looking at this in early Jan and also Dan I think is interested in z-wave too.
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ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2007, 09:49:57 pm »
Once I finish the Insteon, I will be ready to tackle a new project..
I don't have any zwave devices..
I'm not sure if the next project I tackle will be GSD/Zwave or starting to learn C++
I think C++ would help me more in the long run...
I guess it depends on how BAD Zwave is needed... and if someone is willing to send me some hardware...

I think a capable programmer should only have to purchase equipment ONCE.
I can't afford purchasing zwave (and, honestly, can't rationalize it either)

:)
Dan
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bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 11:01:53 am »
Once I finish the Insteon, I will be ready to tackle a new project..
I don't have any zwave devices..
I'm not sure if the next project I tackle will be GSD/Zwave or starting to learn C++
I think C++ would help me more in the long run...
I guess it depends on how BAD Zwave is needed... and if someone is willing to send me some hardware...

I think a capable programmer should only have to purchase equipment ONCE.
I can't afford purchasing zwave (and, honestly, can't rationalize it either)

:)
Dan

I'm interested in getting z-wave support.  I haven't set up a LMCE core or anything yet because I'm more interested in the home automation side of it, and there doesn't appear to be any controllers available that are supported (yet!)

One interesting tidbit:  Intermatic Home Settings has a $20 rebate for their products. http://www.amazon.com/gp/redirect.html?location=http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/00/00/00/96/58/84/96588490._V5170561_.pdf&token=957BBB0669152D76BE1C614537975585163C1748

Well, I just read more closely and it says you must have purchased before Dec. 31st.... nevermind!

bigbrother0074

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 11:17:53 am »
I keep reading more and more, but I don't really feel like I know what I should be looking for.  I'm interested in the home automation part of LMCE (i like the rest, but that's just the most fascinating for me) but I don't know which standards I should be looking at.  I thought the wiki said z-wave was the only supported home automation standard, but it seems like development has stopped some time ago and there are no new usb controllers that are supported.  The wiki says not to use Insteon, but you say you've now added support for this.  But is this just the PLM/PLC support?  That's not RF, right?  I think I understand the differences between how PLM and RF networking works, but why would I choose one or the other (other than it being supported, of course)?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just feeling a little helpless and lost!

ddamron

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2008, 11:43:24 am »
I keep reading more and more, but I don't really feel like I know what I should be looking for.  I'm interested in the home automation part of LMCE (i like the rest, but that's just the most fascinating for me) but I don't know which standards I should be looking at.  I thought the wiki said z-wave was the only supported home automation standard, but it seems like development has stopped some time ago and there are no new usb controllers that are supported.  The wiki says not to use Insteon, but you say you've now added support for this.  But is this just the PLM/PLC support?  That's not RF, right?  I think I understand the differences between how PLM and RF networking works, but why would I choose one or the other (other than it being supported, of course)?

Sorry for all the questions, I am just feeling a little helpless and lost!

There's more and more HA support every day... EIB is supported, ZWave (I don't know which controller though), X10, and I'm just finishing up the Insteon support for PLM. 
Insteon is a DUAL MESH protocol - that means it's RF AND Powerline..
Normally, the RF side is used for remotes and Automatic Phase Coupling.. (Look up Access Points..)

The big situation IMHO is which protocols support BIDIRECTIONAL communication.  ZWave supports PIR sensor inputs only..
That's why insteon is such a hot topic, the driver I'm writing is FULLY bidirectional.. meaning, when you turn on a switch manually, the system will see that, and update it's status.

Another side effect of Insteon bidirectional support with the PLM is X10 bidirectional support since Insteon is backward compatible with X10, and can send/receive X10 signals.

HTH

Dan
The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
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PeteK

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2008, 06:28:22 pm »
The big situation IMHO is which protocols support BIDIRECTIONAL communication.  ZWave supports PIR sensor inputs only..

HTH

Dan

[/quote]

This is not quite true.  I believe the Zwave patent limitation covers direct status reports based on local commands.  Z-wave is a fully bi-directional protocol.  The Z-wave implementation in LMCE does communicate to confirm message reception.  Status update is done via polling in a lot of applications (including LMCE, though that hasn't been fully implmented so far.


MrNiceGuy

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Re: Insteon and ZWave compatable controlers
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2008, 11:54:12 pm »
The current ZWave usb controllers are not supported. Actually its the USB chip that isn't supported under Linux. The leviton controller is a serial interface and could be supported easily but it needs someone who knows how to redirect the ZWave interface to look at the serial port (and deal with the PNP serial detection scripts).

Hmmm... well the ZCU201 seems to be supported but the driver needs to support the update z-wave firmware capabilities. We will hopefully have someone at Pluto looking at this in early Jan and also Dan I think is interested in z-wave too.

So in summary, are there no Z-Wave controllers that are both currently available and fully supported to your knowledge?