Author Topic: Home automation  (Read 2303 times)

posterberg

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Home automation
« on: December 09, 2007, 04:37:20 pm »
I've been reading some on the CM11A / RCA HC60RX devices and it seems that they are limited to controling / reciecving events from at most 16 devices. I sounds quite limited to only be able to read / write events to 16 devices in an entire home. I guess that I'd be able to use up that in just on room with all the thing I have planned to use LMCE for. So I have a few questions for all the clever guys here ;o)

1. Can one the Core handle more than one CM11A / RCA HC60RX unit? Like connecting three to be able to controll 48 device with different house codes?
2. The above must be possible right, what if my units are on different power phases? I guess that the controll signals can't travel ove power phases? That should also mean that I can have same house codes on different power phases, right?
3. Do the home security system, motion detectors etc use X.10 as well? That would make the 16 unit limit even more restrictive...
4. Are there other protocols supported by LMCE? Any wireless homeautomation systems? (supported is important)
5. Is it possible to control lights atc both with normal wall buttons and with LMCE? Is it possible for LMCE to know the state of the lamps in if the lamp has been powered on/off with a wall button. This assumes that the wall button uses X.10 to switch on/off the lamp.

Has anyone written an extensive homeautomation wiki/guide/etc? I am very interested in taking my media system a few steps forward to get all the coolnes it can deliver ;o)

Any help is much apritiated!!

/Peter

totallymaxed

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2007, 04:40:34 pm »
I've been reading some on the CM11A / RCA HC60RX devices and it seems that they are limited to controling / reciecving events from at most 16 devices. I sounds quite limited to only be able to read / write events to 16 devices in an entire home. I guess that I'd be able to use up that in just on room with all the thing I have planned to use LMCE for. So I have a few questions for all the clever guys here ;o)

1. Can one the Core handle more than one CM11A / RCA HC60RX unit? Like connecting three to be able to controll 48 device with different house codes?
2. The above must be possible right, what if my units are on different power phases? I guess that the controll signals can't travel ove power phases? That should also mean that I can have same house codes on different power phases, right?
3. Do the home security system, motion detectors etc use X.10 as well? That would make the 16 unit limit even more restrictive...
4. Are there other protocols supported by LMCE? Any wireless homeautomation systems? (supported is important)
5. Is it possible to control lights atc both with normal wall buttons and with LMCE? Is it possible for LMCE to know the state of the lamps in if the lamp has been powered on/off with a wall button. This assumes that the wall button uses X.10 to switch on/off the lamp.

Has anyone written an extensive homeautomation wiki/guide/etc? I am very interested in taking my media system a few steps forward to get all the coolnes it can deliver ;o)

Any help is much apritiated!!

/Peter

Hmmm... maybe the wiki is a good place to start ;-)

http://wiki.linuxmce.com/index.php/Main_Page
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

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posterberg

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2007, 04:51:42 pm »
I've read what I've found there... I read about the Insteon system that seems to support transmission both over radio and the powerlines, but it is very vague on how supported / not supported this system is. It would by nice to hear a true life story from someone that has an extensive homeautomation system running, using LMCE as the control center.

I couldn't find any info on the possiblity for LMCE to controll more than one CM11A / RCA HC60RX...

It might be me that is blind but these are the things that I couldn't find answers to in the wiki, so I went to the forums...

totallymaxed

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2007, 05:12:00 pm »
I've read what I've found there... I read about the Insteon system that seems to support transmission both over radio and the powerlines, but it is very vague on how supported / not supported this system is. It would by nice to hear a true life story from someone that has an extensive homeautomation system running, using LMCE as the control center.

I couldn't find any info on the possiblity for LMCE to controll more than one CM11A / RCA HC60RX...

It might be me that is blind but these are the things that I couldn't find answers to in the wiki, so I went to the forums...


I have only ever used a single CM11 interface. That does not mean that it is impossible to add more... but as standard i dont think support for multiple CM11's is there.

Insteon support is being added now... see here http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=3354.0

Z-wave is your other option... thats supported now and is where most development effort is focused currently.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2007, 06:45:44 pm by totallymaxed »
Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

My Blog; http://ellipticalcurve.com

Get RaspSqueeze-CEC or Raspbmc-CEC Wifi enabled for Dianemo/LinuxMCE: http://wp.me/P4KgIc-5P

For Smart Home consulting advice;
@herron on Twitter, inquiries@ellipticalcurve.com via email or PM me here.

Get a Dianemo License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.msg100221#msg100221
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

http://www.dianemo.co.uk

Zaerc

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2007, 06:24:48 pm »
I've been reading some on the CM11A / RCA HC60RX devices and it seems that they are limited to controling / reciecving events from at most 16 devices. I sounds quite limited to only be able to read / write events to 16 devices in an entire home. I guess that I'd be able to use up that in just on room with all the thing I have planned to use LMCE for. So I have a few questions for all the clever guys here ;o)

1. Can one the Core handle more than one CM11A / RCA HC60RX unit? Like connecting three to be able to controll 48 device with different house codes?
2. The above must be possible right, what if my units are on different power phases? I guess that the controll signals can't travel ove power phases? That should also mean that I can have same house codes on different power phases, right?
3. Do the home security system, motion detectors etc use X.10 as well? That would make the 16 unit limit even more restrictive...
4. Are there other protocols supported by LMCE? Any wireless homeautomation systems? (supported is important)
5. Is it possible to control lights atc both with normal wall buttons and with LMCE? Is it possible for LMCE to know the state of the lamps in if the lamp has been powered on/off with a wall button. This assumes that the wall button uses X.10 to switch on/off the lamp.

Has anyone written an extensive homeautomation wiki/guide/etc? I am very interested in taking my media system a few steps forward to get all the coolnes it can deliver ;o)

Any help is much apritiated!!

/Peter

Well I'm not so sure if the CM11 is limited to using only one housecode at a time, but to be honest I haven't tried using more then one yet either as my testing has been rather limited, but I doubt you'd need more then one.

As far as I know receiving events with the CM11 isn't properly supported yet, I would like to look into that further and maybe do some work on that but for the moment I've been busy with other things and I don't own any X10 remotes or sensors either.  Other then that I haven't looked at the code base that closely yet, so for the time being I wouldn't even know where to start.

The control signal is limited to one phase, unless you have some sort of bridge/filter installed, again I haven't gotten around to doing that myself.  Even if you can use seperate phases I doubt lmce is able to use the same housecode twice but I could be wrong on that as well.  I suspect that the problem would be that lmce wouldn't know to send which code to which CM11.

Sory that I can't give you more certain answers, but I hope that might clear things up a bit.  And maybe someone can correct me if I got it all wrong.
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PeteK

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2007, 06:40:23 pm »
Insteon support for Powerlinc USB controllers is currently being integrated into the 0710 release.  THEre is avtive work (and code) for using the ethernet/Plm combination. Check the forums for info.

chrisbirkinshaw

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2007, 02:47:23 pm »
Well I'm not so sure if the CM11 is limited to using only one housecode at a time, but to be honest I haven't tried using more then one yet either as my testing has been rather limited, but I doubt you'd need more then one.

As far as I know receiving events with the CM11 isn't properly supported yet, I would like to look into that further and maybe do some work on that but for the moment I've been busy with other things and I don't own any X10 remotes or sensors either.  Other then that I haven't looked at the code base that closely yet, so for the time being I wouldn't even know where to start.

Good news: CM11 can send to all housecodes.
Bad news: It can't receive messages in Linux MCE


Chris

posterberg

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2007, 11:45:48 am »
It seems that using Zwave or Insteon will be the route to take. Are any of those supported in Europe? I saw a post somewhere in the forums that there only are 110 Volt versions.

I live in Sweden with 220Volt 50Hz...


ddamron

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2007, 09:02:57 pm »
Peter,

I take it you already have an X10 infrastructure.

LinucMCE DOES support more than one CM11A - the problem is that BOTH CM11A's will have to transmit on the same powerline.
One way to do it, is to add a BLOCK filter to be sure that X10 commands DO NOT cross your phases.
Then, put a CM11A on each phase.  Configuration is simple..
add the two interfaces, name them Phase1 and Phase2
then start adding your devices.. when add a device on Phase 1, make sure that the PARENT is the CM11A on Phase 1.

This will give you up to 512 combinations.. 256 on phase 1, and 256 on phase 2..

I would suggest to migrate to INSTEON.  Install a PLM. (instead of another CM11A)
Insteon is BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE with X10
the PLM driver I'm writing is 2 way, and that extends to the X10 compatibility too.
with Insteon, you can have 16 million devices... (!)
Insteon is 48 times faster than X10
Most, if not all Insteon devices can be programmed to respond to X10 commands.

HTH,

Dan
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chrisbirkinshaw

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2007, 01:53:48 am »
Talk of phases and Insteon is not applicable in the EU I'm afraid.

Anyway, even with one one CM11 you can have hundreds of devices. I would be very impressed if anyone has that many X10 modules!



ddamron

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2007, 03:14:49 am »
Heh, I forgot europe doesn't do that..  my bad  ;D

Yes, the CM11A will support 256 devices. 16 Housecodes * 16 Unitcodes.  I've done this myself...

I would, however, suggest you upgrade your CM11A (or the european equiv) to a PLM (if they make a EU version)

Even if you only use X10 devices, some of the later x10 devices are 2-way...
if you have any of these, the PLM driver I'm writing will handle 2 way communication.

It wouldn't be hard to add this functionality into the CM11A driver, but my C++ skills are weak...
and, insteon is SOOOOOOO much faster..., SOOOOOOOO much more reliable, etc...

HTH

Dan
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posterberg

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2007, 09:41:21 am »
Anyway, even with one one CM11 you can have hundreds of devices. I would be very impressed if anyone has that many X10 modules!

My bad, I took it that one CM11 only could be configured for one house code a at a time...

A 256 devices are sufficient ;-)

posterberg

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2007, 09:44:39 am »
Heh, I forgot europe doesn't do that..  my bad  ;D

Yes, the CM11A will support 256 devices. 16 Housecodes * 16 Unitcodes.  I've done this myself...

I would, however, suggest you upgrade your CM11A (or the european equiv) to a PLM (if they make a EU version)

Even if you only use X10 devices, some of the later x10 devices are 2-way...
if you have any of these, the PLM driver I'm writing will handle 2 way communication.

It wouldn't be hard to add this functionality into the CM11A driver, but my C++ skills are weak...
and, insteon is SOOOOOOO much faster..., SOOOOOOOO much more reliable, etc...

HTH

Dan


Reliable... That was a scary word... is X10 unstable? And is it awfully slow?

I don't have a setup at all yet. I am planning for one and I want to buy the right stuff at once... It really sounds like Insteon is the way to go... I hope that there will be something for us Europeans soon...

mickg

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2007, 09:48:08 am »
In Europe, there is EIB/KNX bus for home automation. It work fine with LMCE.

ddamron

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Re: Home automation
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2007, 01:14:07 pm »
IMHO, if your in NA, Insteon is the way to go...
Dual mesh communication, RF and PL
FULL Bidirectional, including confirmation messages, and 45 times faster than X10.. hmmm...
electronic linking (if you know the ID's), and the framework for HUGE expansion...
(groundwork for automotive, health & Safety, Toys, Seasonal Devices, Plumbing, etc etc etc)
other companies are slow to come, but look at X10, they really didn't have a lot of 'up and comers'... even when they licenced their
technology, noone really came out with new devices... (most just rebranded existing devices)

In contrast, Insteon already has more NEW device suppliers than X10 had in 20 years..
Simplehomenet is a strong one, they've quite a few cool toys...
(www.simplehomenet.com)

The software development kit is VERY reasonable too.. which makes it ideal for expansion..
They also offer HDK's...

One thing I like about Insteon, is the ability to interrogate each device to figure out WHAT your talking to..

just FYI (or as my wife calls it, UFI)

Dan

The only intuitive interface is the nipple.  After that it's all learned.
My other computer is your windows box.
I'm out of my mind.  Back in 5 minutes.
Q:  What's Red and smells like blue paint?

A:  Red Paint.