Author Topic: bluray and hddvd playback  (Read 11430 times)

cobradevil

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bluray and hddvd playback
« on: November 04, 2007, 09:38:05 am »
How is that possible without breaking any rules?

is it legal?

chewi

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2007, 01:17:33 pm »
Possiple ?
Not really... The Movies are encrypted. There is one key that was hacked some time ago, i think, but I don't know, what software you'd need to use it and it will be invalidated some time in the near future. The only Software, that I know of that has a key is PowerDVD for Windows...

Legal ?
It's not legal to crack the key. Just as with DVDs under Linux... That's not legal as well (in most countries), as the Encryption Key of the DVD is cracked when you insert it. That's why the lib is not shipped with most Linux Distributions...

For more information, you should visit wikipedia and the appropriate forums and communities focusing especially on dvd, blueray and hddvd and legal and driver issues... LinuxMCE only utilizes whatever there is being developed...

Best regards, Andreas

teedge77

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 03:31:56 pm »
danielk explains it some here...search first ;)


Quote
http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=2954.msg14879#msg14879
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cobradevil

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #3 on: November 06, 2007, 12:40:19 pm »
Well now i am realy astonished :(


Ok playback will be in but you need a hell of a lot performance to do that.

there is no acceleration for playing back hd content on nvidia/ati cards at the moment because the drivers do not support anything more then accelerated mpeg2.

I did some research to find out that there isn't any accelerated playback for now.
you need a dualcore to play back hd content, thats not cool for a media solution under your tv with a fast core upstairs.

I took a look at my brothers PC to find out that he could play hd content with windows media player but could not with vlc because the screen was stuttering. vlc does not use the acceleration and wmp does.

Am i missing something?
Is linux not capable of playing hd content because we are missing some link to hardware accelerated playback?

tschak909

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2007, 02:13:00 pm »
yes, but the reason why is because all of said things are patented, and can not be implemented in free software products at all.

-Thom

cobradevil

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2007, 06:24:33 pm »
If it has all to do with patents then why can intel create a new api?

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/vaapi

Patents are everywhere but a hardware vendor can support a few api's but nvidia is not taking any action at all.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=96183

I think without decent support for accelerated video playback it doesn't make sense to create a linux based media center at all, because a lot of movies (bluray / hddvd ) are already in hd format 1080p and i do think a media centre should support those formats. That was also the reason i bought a full HD screen television so i could play back movies at full resolution.

not using a dual core system with 2 gig of memory as media director eating more than 600 Watt

Well it plays music very well and also the home automation thing is working so I can use lmce for that i guess.

These things make me sad  :'(

With kind regards

William van de Velde

chewi

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2007, 07:51:10 pm »
What kind of hardware acceleration do you want ?

There was an article in the german C'T testing hddvd and blueray on windows with a state-of-the-art machine and it does not work well at all...
The video-acceleration of ati and nvidia (that is only in 2 chipsets of each vendor) does not make the big difference...

The problem is with the decryption. That eats up two thirds of the performance needed for playing hd-content from blueray and hddvd...

I think we'll have to wait until some vendor has the mercy or finds it to be an interessting market and supports hardware-decryption for both standards and hopefully works with the linux community on drivers for the kernel... besides that, lay back and relax and watch hd-content from your cable provider... Here in Germany, you cannot even do that for more than 3 programs...

Patience is the key for consumers and the industry just ruins technology-evolution... Too complex creatures (1080/i/p/25/30/unsupported+fake24p,...) never survive... And trying to sell a customer 3 different devices within only 3 years for [hd ready 720 | full hd 1080/25,30 | full hd ready? 1080/24p], 2 video-disk-formats with changing specification after release (blueray 1.3something finally got picture-in-picture but still no internet-content from hddvd) instead of compining video-features from hddvd with storage from blueray (40gb compared to 50gb or 100gb with firmware-upgrade on 4-layer)...

Don't expect any company to really put effort in research and driver-building until those arguments are settled and there is actually a market of working products... ;)

(Sorry for bitching around...)

Best regards,

a sad Andreas

PeteK

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2007, 08:02:40 pm »
If it has all to do with patents then why can intel create a new api?

http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/vaapi

Patents are everywhere but a hardware vendor can support a few api's but nvidia is not taking any action at all.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=96183

I think without decent support for accelerated video playback it doesn't make sense to create a linux based media center at all, because a lot of movies (bluray / hddvd ) are already in hd format 1080p and i do think a media centre should support those formats. That was also the reason i bought a full HD screen television so i could play back movies at full resolution.

not using a dual core system with 2 gig of memory as media director eating more than 600 Watt

Well it plays music very well and also the home automation thing is working so I can use lmce for that i guess.

These things make me sad  :'(

With kind regards

William van de Velde

Well, if the difference is putting an HD-DVD in a dedicated player vs. putting it in a $2-3K windows media center PC, I'll take the HD-DVD player.  Remember, you can control the HD-DVD player through LMCE.  While LMCE will relinquish the screen to the HD-DVD player, it can automate TV and Receiver control, and switch inputs back to LMCE when the user wants to change.  Follow-me and distributed video won't work, but then again, they're not an option in Windows either.  One day, if HD-DVD ever actually implementes managed copy, things may be different, but I don't see any advantage of Windows for HD-DVD/Blu-ray playback.

cobradevil

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2007, 10:52:53 pm »
Non taken

i was just skeptic that my brother could play a wmv-hd (VC-1 without encryption) with windows media player and he couldn't with vlc, because vlc did not support the microsoft extension supported by nvidia to do accelerated playback.

I just want to take full advantage of full hd.

I will try it with my 2.4 Ghz machine with the same nvidia card under windows to see if the playback is different.

With kind regards

William van de Velde

« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 10:54:34 pm by cobradevil »

desmarch

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2007, 09:44:03 pm »
I think without decent support for accelerated video playback it doesn't make sense to create a linux based media center at all, because a lot of movies (bluray / hddvd ) are already in hd format 1080p and i do think a media centre should support those formats. That was also the reason i bought a full HD screen television so i could play back movies at full resolution.

I fully agree with that: the whole point is to have only one unique solution for all medias. If HD is missing, there is no point in having a media center. I am afraid we will be stuck with MS and WMP for a while! >:(
Too bad, LMCE is very promising. :'(

tschak909

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2007, 09:57:15 pm »
oh waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

waah waah waah

i've never heard so much crying in my life.

why don't you guys buck up and help us make this system better instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it?

-Thom

desmarch

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2007, 10:13:44 pm »
oh waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

waah waah waah

i've never heard so much crying in my life.

why don't you guys buck up and help us make this system better instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it?

-Thom


Sorry about that but I am just an end-user. (a free rider?) I guess people like me will have to put up with making MS always bigger while Linux will keep being a tool/playground for techies at least for a long while.
One day though...

Matthew

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2007, 10:30:35 pm »
oh waaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

waah waah waah

i've never heard so much crying in my life.

why don't you guys buck up and help us make this system better instead of waiting for someone to come along and do it?

Sorry about that but I am just an end-user. (a free rider?) I guess people like me will have to put up with making MS always bigger while Linux will keep being a tool/playground for techies at least for a long while.
One day though...

This is a developers forum. If you're going to offer only demands (and masked insults), you should stick to posting wish lists in the Feature requests & roadmap forum. People discussing here generally are techies. The ones working for free to make your life better.

hari

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2007, 10:33:01 pm »
This is a developers forum. If you're going to offer only demands (and masked insults), you should stick to posting wish lists in the Feature requests & roadmap forum. People discussing here generally are techies. The ones working for free to make your life better.

full ack, nothing to add.

regards,
Hari
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teedge77

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Re: bluray and hddvd playback
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2007, 10:35:16 pm »
ummm....theres millions of people who use open source stuff that dont know how to contribute, and instead of whining about whining, why dont you help to convince them they could contribute something (other than bitching at them)? anything at this point helps i suppose. also....i guess its just a shot in the dark when you tell people to help with the programming, but they arent always programmers or theyd probably try. you could always mentor people into programming  ;) i am sure its a bit daunting to quite a few who wish they were able to do it. hows it go...sugar...water...vinegar....hmm...idk...im sure youve all heard it anyway. oh...and that other one...fishing...guy....eat dinner...or make his own meal...idk ;)
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