Author Topic: LMCE v0710 on PS3?  (Read 2745 times)

Matthew

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LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« on: November 03, 2007, 06:41:28 pm »
I was glad to see LMCE announce it is releasing an upgrade based on Gutsy/7.10. Playstation3 is officially supported by Ubuntu, and 7.10 (their second PS3 release) had some real improvements on the PS3 platform. Is there any specific work in the LMCE project that targets the PS3 specifically?

The PS3 has unusual HW (that has meant some bugs in its Ubuntu distro) not limited to its unique Cell CPU, but also its Blu-Ray player, builtin Bluetooth, WiFi, HDMI output, and limited RAM. Its RSX graphics chip is locked out from Linux access by the Hypervisor virtualization container (in which either GameOS or Linux runs), and very little is yet exploiting the Cell's primary resource, it's SPUs (DSPs) that are the reason it's in the PS3. So all graphics is running on the same 3.2GHz PPC as is running the rest of the OS - ie. no HW graphics except the conversion of the framebuffer memory to HDMI output. Combined with the limited RAM, that bottlenecks multimedia very slow when running code not built or highly configured to work around the PS3 limits, to exploit its balancing strengths. And conversely, the multimedia processing slows the rest of the OS. For now, anyway, while Linux and the PS3 HW still are barely fitted together.

PS3 would be perhaps the perfect multimedia hub for LMCE, in no small part because it's subsidized by Sony to sell for only about $500, and has extremely consistent (if unique) HW, like any "game console". Also because it's got HW for LMCE features built in, including Blu-Ray etc. If LMCE can work around the limited RAM, and perhaps exploit/assist the existing independent projects to port functions (like OpenGL) to the SPEs, it would have functions available only in custom high-end PCs costing $3000, probably more.

So is there any work in the LMCE project that's making LMCE run on PS3 as best it can?

tschak909

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2007, 09:12:45 pm »
perhaps you should do some digging into how Sony locks the hardware when inside the hypervisor. It basically renders 90% of the hardware this project would want to use...USELESS.

-Thom

Zaerc

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 04:53:47 pm »
Somehow I doubt anyone needing a $3000 PC to run LMCE, it shouldn't be to hard to build a suitable machine well under $500, without all the restrictive sony lock-out of course.
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hari

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UPnP (Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?)
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2007, 06:13:12 pm »
i would prefer a generic upnp av server and control point implementation. I thought about using mediathomb and writing a dce device with perl and Net::UPnP, but its missing the control point features. The only free software i found is java based: http://www.cidero.com/.

So one could control the DLNA features of the PS3 or any other UPnP media renderer with any orbiter. That would be cool.

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Hari
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Matthew

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2007, 06:37:49 pm »
perhaps you should do some digging into how Sony locks the hardware when inside the hypervisor. It basically renders 90% of the hardware this project would want to use...USELESS.
You should look at PS3 Ubuntu, the official Ubuntu distro that explicitly supports the PS3. The only HW really locked out is the RSX chip. So you might want to read my post to which you just replied, which explains that what's needed is porting X to the PS3 SPUs, a project already well underway.

Which means the one HW piece actually locked out by Sony isn't necessary. And the WiFi, Bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, HDMI and 7.1 audio outputs, Blu-Ray, BT/sixaxis controllers, and screamingly fast CPU are all available. For $500.

So maybe instead of answering wrong a question about the PS3 HW that I didn't ask, you might just dig up some answers to how to get LMCE running better on a platform full of HW that LMCE can run. Or just sit by and get the benefits while serious people actually do it for you.

tschak909

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2007, 06:39:54 pm »
I stand corrected. I guess this is what I get for not keeping an eye on something for 6 months...

-Thom

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2007, 07:00:40 pm »
perhaps you should do some digging into how Sony locks the hardware when inside the hypervisor. It basically renders 90% of the hardware this project would want to use...USELESS.
You should look at PS3 Ubuntu, the official Ubuntu distro that explicitly supports the PS3. The only HW really locked out is the RSX chip. So you might want to read my post to which you just replied, which explains that what's needed is porting X to the PS3 SPUs, a project already well underway.

Which means the one HW piece actually locked out by Sony isn't necessary. And the WiFi, Bluetooth, gigabit ethernet, HDMI and 7.1 audio outputs, Blu-Ray, BT/sixaxis controllers, and screamingly fast CPU are all available. For $500.

So maybe instead of answering wrong a question about the PS3 HW that I didn't ask, you might just dig up some answers to how to get LMCE running better on a platform full of HW that LMCE can run. Or just sit by and get the benefits while serious people actually do it for you.

Matthew-

Ouch.  We all make mistakes.  Thom is a strong member of the LMCE, and I would call him serious.  We all see the potential of LMCE and are frustrated by its current shortcomings.  Porting to PS3 would be a fantastic growth path.  The LMCE team is still in its infancy and is of course looking for developers.  If you're serious, as you seem to suggest, we'd love your help in working on the port.

-PeteK

Zaerc

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2007, 08:08:23 pm »
So maybe instead of answering wrong a question about the PS3 HW that I didn't ask, you might just dig up some answers to how to get LMCE running better on a platform full of HW that LMCE can run. Or just sit by and get the benefits while serious people actually do it for you.

Maybe instead of bitching, you could grab the source and port it yourself?  Not that I care for the "benefits" of hardware that I will never even consider buying myself (sony sucks ass).  And to answer your original question: aparently not.  But maybe you would like to waste your own time on issues like: "bottlenecks multimedia very slow when running code not built or highly configured to work around the PS3 limits". 

Now if you don't mind I'll be sticking to hardware that I'm actually "allowed" to use according to the manufacturer and that is not filled with all sorts of proprietary "limits".
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Matthew

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2007, 08:32:04 pm »
I'm going to be contributing as much as I can to LMCE, and if possible to its running on PS3.

But not because it looks like it'll be much fun working with those members of this community who would rather post an oboxious response to a perfectly good question than learn from the discussion. Though tschak909 has the right attitude about benefiting from the input, and is more interested in the project's results. I can't say the same for people with Zaerc's attitude, who can't even read the info that could set them straight, but instead find it an opportunity to post redundantly wrong obnoxious insults that only keep back this project.

We'll see whether the LMCE 0710 upgrade uses any of the Kubuntu 0710 improvements on the PS3. And then maybe get to work incorporating more of the parallel developments, like spu-medialib and other efforts to make RSX lockout either go away or irrelevant.

Zaerc

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2007, 08:59:56 pm »
...
I can't say the same for people with Zaerc's attitude, who can't even read the info that could set them straight, but instead find it an opportunity to post redundantly wrong obnoxious insults that only keep back this project.
...
And what info would that be? Surely not that blog link you posted.  As for me being so wrong, is there proprietary lock-out yes or no?

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teedge77

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2007, 09:11:48 pm »
are you two flirting?   :o thats cute.
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Zaerc

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2007, 09:23:05 pm »
are you two flirting?   :o thats cute.
LOL, jealous much? :D
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teedge77

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2007, 09:35:20 pm »
takin the 5th thanks. :P
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hari

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Re: LMCE v0710 on PS3?
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2007, 10:52:03 pm »
I can't say the same for people with Zaerc's attitude, who can't even read the info that could set them straight, but instead find it an opportunity to post redundantly wrong obnoxious insults that only keep back this project.
Im a PS3 owner my self. I like it. Of course it would make a great orbiter. But as Zaerc points out without RSX its a expensive thin client for LinuxMCE with some bells and whistles at the moment.
Quote
And then maybe get to work incorporating more of the parallel developments, like spu-medialib and other efforts to make RSX lockout either go away or irrelevant.
Until somebody comes up with a mythtv version utilizing the spu's any questions on a media director ps3 port seem silly at the moment. And please stop offensing on of our mostly involved developers. Whar are your contributions? Did you manage to cross compile some core components like DCE-router as a start? Been into some SPU coding these days?

regards,
Hari
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