Archive > App Server Users
Problems installing
archived:
in the 30 release we are upgrading our Debian mirror and upgrading the kernel to 2.6.12.5. I think your main reason for wanting to use a stock distro was to get the latest drivers, right? so this may go away within a couple weeks. We will try rebuilding Xine too at that time.
if you want to proceed installing Pluto on your Debian box, try this... take a clean, vanilla Debian box, add to your source.list:
deb http://deb.plutohome.com/debian/ 20dev main
deb http://deb.plutohome.com/debian/ replacements main
deb http://deb.plutohome.com/debian/ unstable mythtv
deb http://deb.plutohome.com/debian/ 20dev contrib
those repositories contain Pluto's packages, but not our Debian mirror. Then do:
apt-get install pluto-app-server pluto-asterisk pluto-bluetooth-dongle pluto-boot-scripts pluto-cddb-ident pluto-confirm-dependencies pluto-convert-mac pluto-createdevice pluto-database-settings pluto-dcecommon pluto-dcerouter pluto-devel-dependencies pluto-dhcpd-plugin pluto-disk-drive pluto-diskless-base pluto-eib pluto-gc100 pluto-generic-serial-device pluto-install-scripts pluto-irbase pluto-irtrans-wrapper pluto-ivtv-video-drivers pluto-kernel-upgrade pluto-libbd pluto-libserial pluto-lirc-wrapper pluto-local-database pluto-media-database pluto-messagesend pluto-messagetrans pluto-mythtv-backend-proxy pluto-mythtv-player pluto-mythtv-plugin pluto-orbiter pluto-orbitergen pluto-orbiterinstaller pluto-pluto-main-db pluto-pluto-media-db pluto-pluto-security-db pluto-plutoutils pluto-qos pluto-ra pluto-ratpoison pluto-remoteassistance pluto-sample-media pluto-security-database pluto-serializeclass pluto-skins-basic pluto-slim-server-streamer pluto-slimserver-plugin pluto-sqlcvs pluto-std-plugins pluto-system-database pluto-text-to-speech pluto-updateentarea pluto-updatemedia pluto-videolan-client pluto-videolan-plugin pluto-videolan-server pluto-vipshared pluto-website-admin pluto-website-support pluto-windowsce-libraries pluto-xine-player pluto-xine-plugin
that will install all the Pluto specific packages. I am not sure if there will be issues with dependencies. If so please post here again.
I have to point out that even though we did have the links to download those scripts, we did post a link on the main open-source page: "I'm already a Linux user. If I install your distro and use my PC as a "Core", can I still it as my normal computer too? What did you change, and how is Pluto different from a normal Linux distro? I don't want to dedicate a PC just to Pluto" which goes to: http://plutohome.com/support/?section=document&docID=200
and says: "While you could try to run Pluto on your own distribution, it's not really recommended."
our final product is a mainstream "taken out of the box plug it in turn it on and use it product". There are of course lots of similar products based on Linux, such as TiVo. but the only way to reach that state of stability is to have a completely controlled environment, where you know what all the software versions are installed a can test those exact versions. this is what we mean when we say Pluto targets the "appliance" market (ie set top box), rather than the "software" market (ie HomeSeer, Mr. House, etc.). so when you mention you might be interested in starting a new business, if that business involves selling a software solutionwhere the homeowner is a computer user who does normal computer maintenance to keep the system going, Pluto is probably not the best solution. However if you are looking to offer an appliance type solution where the homeowner has no need for a computer skills and does not need to know anything about Linux, I humbly suggest this is the only way. For example we found while upgrading our mirror some packages such as the Linux console simply cannot be upgraded in an unattended manner. I remember our package maintainer mentioning that package, which is of course core to Linux, did not respect the flag to auto upgrade without prompting the user, and halts, stopping the upgrade until the user answers some questions. this is of course because the package maintainer intends that a human who knows Linux is doing the upgrade with apt-get dist-upgrade, rather than a completely automated process. So therefore if you use the standard Debian mirror, whoever is the homeowner must have Linux skills so he can manually do upgrades and maintenance. In our mirror, we rebuild such packages and put them in our replacements, making them so they assume defaults that are appropriate for the Pluto environment, and therefore the system can be self maintaining and used by homeowners with no Linux skills. but obviously it's very difficult to do both since an appliance solution and a software solution really are two different things that go into different directions, it would be a huge amount of work for us to try to maintain two versions of Pluto for those two separate markets.
archived:
Wow ... what a reply ... :)
Firstly I would like to make clear that I'm not discussing Pluto "philosophy".
I like the "appliance" approach, and I do not want to deviate from this nor I am asking someone to do it for me.
I'm not in any way saying "hey, you told me that this was possible, and now you have to do it". I'm sorry if I gave this impression, and if so please accept my apologies.
When I say I'm a bit disappointed I simply mean that I was hoping to have a clear picture of this situation at an earlier stage in order to make some further considerations.
I totally agree with you when you mention the need of totally controlled environment to get stability.
Infact my idea is NOT to have a totally custom mantained Pluto distro (it would simply be a nightmare), but just to have the standard Pluto distro with just some refinements that make it work better in some circumstances without any impact towards stability.
The main reasons that pushed me to reinstall a fresh stock debian box were:need to use a different kernel
need to recompile some drivers
need to recompile Xine
need to recompile some additional software With your actual distro this is impossible, so I had no other choices.
I've posted a couple of time questions like "what if upgrade kernel to 2.6.12 ? Will this break anything with Pluto?" but I didn't get any answer.
I know that you guys are running your business and I cannot expect you to support that much an option that may proof good (but also a total waste of time).
I thought that probably it was a "dumb question" not worth replying, so I decided to go for a fresh install.
Probably this lead me too far from the path ... probably it would have been enough simply to upgrade the kernel ... anyway I'm doing tests to get answers so I definitely need to make some trials .
I know that you said that running Pluto on custom distro isn't "really recommended".
Nevertheless sometime one has to try ... there have been plenty of things "not really recommended", that instead have fortunately been done .... :lol:
Anyway "not really recommended" does not mean "impossible" to me, but it sounds like a warning to normal audience that this is something not easy to do. Unless you say "it is totally impossible" or "don't do it, you would break something", I understand that this may be somehow done.
I'm happy to hear that with .30 release you will be migrating to kernel 2.6.12. If I may give a suggestion, it would be great if you could put kernel sources and headers in your repository. Also it would be great if you can use an epia patched kernel ....
Even if in this scenario a manual install makes no real sense, I think that in the mean time I will give your manual installation procedure a try.
Still I need some info: on my box I've actually installed a stock version of Xine (recompiled from original sources), that is working fine. Unless you made recent changes, if I reinstall your Xine release I will fall back in the same situation where I started from (Xine poorly performing with MPEG4, crashing with mp3).
What do you suggest me to do ? Can I skip pluto-xine packages, or should I install them and afterward replace xine engine with recompiled one?
Thanks for your patience and your suggestions
Regards
Marco
archived:
I suggest you go ahead and install pluto-xine package then overwrite the binary. at bootup our confirm_dependencies program goes through all devices and confirms the packages are installed and will install them if they're not. If you install the package, it will not reinstall it. there are other ways to bypass this mechanism but that's probably the simplest.
this week we are recompiling the kernel and rebuilding our mirror. So this is the right time to get any "wishes" included.since it is such a big task we don't do it very often and put it off until we have a compelling reason: in this case the VDR team wrote a Pluto/VDR module which requires a new kernel.
the guy who handles this is Radu. If you have Yahoo IM, he is "radu_c_public", or skype "pluto_support" or email to radu.c at plutohomecom. perhaps you could enable remote assistance so he can SSH in and you can show him what's happening with Xine, and so he can see if the new one he intends to use solves the problem, or if not rebuild it, so you don't need to deviate.
I believe this will have full support for EPIA since we also have a new hardware partner that builds boxes based on that platform and we are testing against their Via Nehemia system.
archived:
Thanks Aaron for your info.
I will follow your procedure and I will let you know. By the way, after installing all the required packages do I need to add/modify any startup script?
I'm really happy to hear that you also are testing Pluto against Nehemiah based boxes. This is exactly what I've been doing for the last 1 and a half months, and I'm glad to see that you guys also find it interesting.
Most probably I'm working in a sligthly different direction than yours. My goal is to get a "light" hybrid working on a EPIA box, while I think that you may be more focused to have a diskless MD.
So, if this is the right time for wishes, I think that mine is quite clear ... :wink:
Thanks also for the opportunity to get direct support from Radu.
As soon as I get again Pluto working I will make a test with your Xine version and just in case I will ask him to have a look.
Thanks again and regards
Marco
archived:
As per your request, I post here the dependencies problem I found.
Basically apt-get install fails on pluto-cddb-ident and pluto-disk-drive because they depend from libcddb0 that is not installable.
On my apt source list there are also some other official mirrors, so it sounds strange to have such a dependency error.
I'll try to figure out a solution, but given that you are already about to release an EPIA friendly version I won't put that much time on this manual installation.
Regards
Marco
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