Author Topic: Single NIC installation  (Read 26071 times)

Zaerc

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2007, 09:21:34 am »
OK - so you are saying that if a wireless access point is the external router (with say an internal subnet of 192.168.1.0/24) with DHCP services turned off and the LMCE server is an internal router with an external IP set manually to say 192.168.1.100 and an internal IP range of 192.168.81.0/24 and that DHCP services on LMCE is configured to give IP's in the range of (for example) 192.168.81.5-192.168.81.250 then when a wireless device connects to the network the wireless router will forward the request out to it's internal network (here I agree) and the LMCE box will respond with an IP address ?  Isn't that IP address going to be in the 192.168.81.0/24 range and hence not function correctly ?

Maybe there is an option for the DHCP to also handle ranges on its external card but I do not see it in the configuration options on the Admin website.  Maybe it does it by default without giving any configuration option (outside of file editing) ?  That would be rather rude - but I am sure that is not the case because the installation procedures suggest you leave the DHCP turned on on your original router.

I know that you could turn the wireless router into an AP and make the LMCE your external router but if it ain't broke why fix it - especially if you are just trying LMCE to see if it fits your needs.  I still say that a 1 port configuration with DHCP services would suit everyone a lot better than this mechanism.  Most people who are going to try LMCE are going to have an infrastructure in place and switching off their existing DHCP service is a lot easier than what you have to go through to make this work (given that we have existing firewall rules etc on our existing router to make our applications work).


So basicly you're saying that everything needs to be changed because some people have no idea what they are doing?  This "mechanism" suits me just fine so I honestly don't agree with that being a shortcoming in the design of LMCE at all.

If you want to use things in a way they weren't intended you're going to have to put in at least some extra effort, there is nothing new (or even specific to LMCE) about that...
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bobpaul

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #16 on: September 09, 2007, 01:25:17 pm »
OK - so you are saying that if a wireless access point is the external router (with say an internal subnet of 192.168.1.0/24) with DHCP services turned off and the LMCE server is an internal router with an external IP set manually to say 192.168.1.100 and an internal IP range of 192.168.81.0/24 and that DHCP services on LMCE is configured to give IP's in the range of (for example) 192.168.81.5-192.168.81.250 then when a wireless device connects to the network the wireless router will forward the request out to it's internal network (here I agree) and the LMCE box will respond with an IP address ?  Isn't that IP address going to be in the 192.168.81.0/24 range and hence not function correctly ?

No. I was replying to someone who stated that you couldn't use a wireless router and do a 2 nic installation of LinuxMCE. That is, you have your cable modem plugged into LinuxMCE and another NIC on linux MCE running to a LAN port on your router. This works fine provided you have DHCP turned off on the router.

If you really want to do a single NIC installation of LinuxMCE, please see the other posts I made in this thread where I describe the configuration necessary to have an external wireless router but DHCP handled by a single NIC LinuxMCE rather than the router. I completely agree this is not straight forward enough and should be supported by the installer.

The point of my comment is that wireless routers can be used quite simply with LinuxMCE, esp if you use LinuxMCE in a 2+nic configuration as your primary router. Wireless is by no means incompatible.

Zaerc

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2007, 03:14:07 pm »
I completely agree this is not straight forward enough and should be supported by the installer.

No it shouldn't.  The intended way to set it up is with 2 network cards.  I see no need at all to change the installer merely because the proper setup doesn't suit a few people that are only interested in half the features.
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bobpaul

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2007, 07:39:26 pm »
No it shouldn't.  The intended way to set it up is with 2 network cards.  I see no need at all to change the installer merely because the proper setup doesn't suit a few people that are only interested in half the features.

The promotional videos all make it sound like one can easily take advantage of all sorts of extra hardware if they happen to have it, but if they don't have it LinuxMCE will fallback gracefully with as much functionality as possible given the circumstances. I don't have two NICs, nor do I have any great intention of running a second drop to the living room. (I'm running a combined front/backend, which is a recommended configuration.) My choice is either to add a wireless link to the local network (so now I'll be quite bandwidth limited as far as stream to my other machines), run an unsightly cable across the floor and around the house, or go through the hassle of running a second cable through the walls. Nice.

Zaerc

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #19 on: September 09, 2007, 08:14:17 pm »
Somehow I'm still not convinced, what was the exact "problem" again? 

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dopey

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2007, 03:32:57 am »
What I think Zarec is saying is the two NIC installation is at the very heart of LinuxMCE. Not having LinuxMCE as the DHCP router removes more functionality then most of the users are willing to except. Your argument that LinuxMCE is supposed to scale back gracefully is flawed. Lets say you didn't have a CPU, you just couldn't run LinuxMCE. There are some components that's just required, period.

Having said that, there are ways to have a single NIC installation and still have the core be the DHCP server with another router acting as the internet gateway. If anything should go in the install, it should be that. There is really no easy way to put that in a wizard though. You could certainly try...

Zaerc

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2007, 11:15:25 am »
Maybe you should read this thread again, there are several people saying that construction works just fine but requires some extra setup.

I still see no deficiency in the installer at all.  Having to do some extra configuration simply because you chose not to follow the recommended setup is not really an argument. 
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teedge77

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2007, 03:42:05 pm »
OK - so you are saying that if a wireless access point is the external router (with say an internal subnet of 192.168.1.0/24) with DHCP services turned off and the LMCE server is an internal router with an external IP set manually to say 192.168.1.100 and an internal IP range of 192.168.81.0/24 and that DHCP services on LMCE is configured to give IP's in the range of (for example) 192.168.81.5-192.168.81.250 then when a wireless device connects to the network the wireless router will forward the request out to it's internal network (here I agree) and the LMCE box will respond with an IP address ?  Isn't that IP address going to be in the 192.168.81.0/24 range and hence not function correctly ?
Quote


its not even necessary to have it on a separate subnet. all my stuff is on the 192.168.1.X and with one NIC. It just shows up as

eth0:192.168.1.215
eth0:0 192.168.1.63

why is that so hard? theres no difficulty whatsoever in making a single NIC installation. You're all putting way too much thought into it. Obviously it isnt a gateway with one NIC.....its not going to be doing any routing...why do you need separate subnets?? youll just have to ways to get to it...well....much more...dcerouter...localhost...the ips...and when it hands out dhcp ....its all on the same network as everything else. it takes two seconds in the webadmin to change it all and youre done.
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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2007, 06:20:18 pm »
Maybe you should read this thread again, there are several people saying that construction works just fine but requires some extra setup.

I still see no deficiency in the installer at all.  Having to do some extra configuration simply because you chose not to follow the recommended setup is not really an argument. 


I agree. The lmce networking setup/options work as they are perfectly well for either a 2 NIC or single NIC config. Nothing in our opinion needs changing there. Most of our installations are single NIC installs but thats for the most part to allow us to build compact Core's without the need for adding a PCI card.

So once and for all ... you already have all the config options you need. Honest you really do!
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dopey

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2007, 01:41:43 am »
So once and for all ... you already have all the config options you need. Honest you really do!

This is what I meant by "it would be difficult to put that in a wizard". In order to do this completely and dummy proof it would also need to setup the external router as well as the core network config, which would change based on the external router config. Of course, if you know what you're doing or willing to read up on it (it's really not that hard) then the wizard is really unnecessary.

snowglyder

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2007, 10:00:55 pm »
So I had this working at one time, and then I started over with 0704 DVD because I couldn't get the UI working in LMCE, and now I can't get the DHCP working on LMCE working again. IS it necessary to actually edit the config file? I don't remember having to do that last time...

I'm using a single NIC because I have DSL and the only real working phone line is in a guest bedroom upstairs (the other lines don't get a fast connection), and I want my hybrid system in the living room that's downstairs. I networked my house, with the wires going to a closet in my office, which is where my wireless router is. Here's my single NIC setup:

DSL modem -> WAN port on wireless router -> Gigabit Switch (to other ports in the house) -> Hybrid LMCE

I set it up with 192.168.1.2 external, and 192.168.1.10 as internal. Gateway is my wireless router as 192.168.1.1. I disabled DHCP on wireless router, and enabled on LMCE, but nothing is pulling an ip. Suggestions?

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #26 on: October 08, 2007, 07:19:13 pm »
I don't like that you have to use LMCE as the DHCP server. I agree that it is necessary if you are running some crappy little SOHO firewall or switch, but if you are running something like a SmoothWall or IPCop, those boxes should handle the DHCP. I am going to be placing my APs on an orange or purple interface and have a captive portal force all unknown connections to a registration page. This forces me to use the SmoothWall as the DHCP server for at least the APs. What LMCE could do is create a simple addon module for these firewalls that fed the necessary PXE boot image and informed the LMCE core upon a DCHP acknowledge.

teedge77

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #27 on: October 08, 2007, 07:42:42 pm »
its for more than just pxe booting. it depends on what you have as far as hardware goes. just one example is voip. i use a cisco 7970 and it gets picked up by linuxmce. it then goes to asterisk and also gets an orbiter skin when linuxmce gives it an address.  what would the benefit be of having your firewall give dhcp over linuxmce or anything else?
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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #28 on: October 09, 2007, 07:58:40 am »
Note:  I have not tried this yet.  I will be building a system in the next week or so and plan to test.  I agree that having LinuxMCE be the center of everything is probably the preference for many but is not something that works the best for me.

Is it not possible to have 2 separate home networks?  Leave your existing home network and then install LinuxMCE with 2 NIC's.  NIC #1, the outside/public side of LinuxMCE would be connected to your existing home network.  It would get an address via DHCP from your existing router or static.  NIC #2 would then be the NIC used for all the PXE boot and other LinuxMCE related functions that need LinuxMCE to provide DHCP services.  You would end up with a separate network for all the content distribution without compromising your current network.

This would end up being 2 routers running in series to your provider.

ISP ------  existing router -----home network----- LinuxMCE ------- LinuxMCE network

Zaerc

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Re: Single NIC installation
« Reply #29 on: October 09, 2007, 05:42:48 pm »
Note:  I have not tried this yet.  I will be building a system in the next week or so and plan to test.  I agree that having LinuxMCE be the center of everything is probably the preference for many but is not something that works the best for me.

Is it not possible to have 2 separate home networks?  Leave your existing home network and then install LinuxMCE with 2 NIC's.  NIC #1, the outside/public side of LinuxMCE would be connected to your existing home network.  It would get an address via DHCP from your existing router or static.  NIC #2 would then be the NIC used for all the PXE boot and other LinuxMCE related functions that need LinuxMCE to provide DHCP services.  You would end up with a separate network for all the content distribution without compromising your current network.

This would end up being 2 routers running in series to your provider.

ISP ------  existing router -----home network----- LinuxMCE ------- LinuxMCE network


That shouldn't be much of a problem.

However I have read somewhere that LMCE prioritzes VoiP and video streaming, with this kind of setup it won't be able to manage the bandwidth used up by the home-network.  This may or may not be important to you.  Another issue could be: accessing fileservers (for instance) located in your home-network,  setting this up will probably be a bit of a hassle.   


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