Ok folks, got a little light on the issue on IRC, thanks to tschakMAC: (& golgoj4-qt5: ):
19:58 mcefan: Seeing that the equipment listed on the wiki is fairly old and most no longer supported, it would be good to have a generic approach that would help sort things out with new cameras, and new camera purchases. If we could just have basic guidelines to follow, it would help in the future, and help me complete the documentation of this section (which I'm currently working on).
19:59 mcefan: what exactly should we be looking for in IP cameras? Why do some work, and some others don't?
19:59 golgoj4-qt5: good question
19:59 * golgoj4-qt5: ponders
20:00 golgoj4-qt5: well the ones that work allow some way to access the image frames directly
20:00 mcefan: i thought LMCE just hooked in the stream
20:00 mcefan: but it looks like i'm missing something
20:00 golgoj4-qt5: no, it grabs frame by frame
20:01 mcefan: well, the stream is a flow of frames...
20:01 mcefan: where is the difference?
20:01 mcefan: what am i missing here?
20:01 golgoj4-qt5: it grabs them every few seconds
20:01 golgoj4-qt5: and not the stream of images
20:01 mcefan: ok
20:01 golgoj4-qt5: shit
20:02 golgoj4-qt5: am i wrong
20:02 golgoj4-qt5: now you made me paranoid...
20:02 mcefan: lol
20:02 golgoj4-qt5: we shall verify this
20:02 mcefan: it hooks into a virtual file that happens to be a stream
20:02 mcefan: not a static file
20:03 golgoj4-qt5: and there is the man with the wooden shoes
20:03 mcefan: so when you point a browser to it, it keeps downloading the file and never ends,
20:03 mcefan: so you see video
20:03 golgoj4-qt5: hmm ok
20:03 golgoj4-qt5: maybe i had a crappier camera
20:03 golgoj4-qt5: haha
20:03 golgoj4-qt5: it always seemed that way to me
20:41 mcefan: mcefan: Seeing that the equipment listed on the wiki is fairly old and most no longer supported, it would be good to have a generic approach that would help sort things out with new cameras, and new camera purchases. If we could just have basic guidelines to follow, it would help in the future, and help me complete the documentation of this section (which I'm currently working on).
20:41 mcefan: 19:59 mcefan: what exactly should we be looking for in IP cameras? Why do some work, and some others don't?
20:41 mcefan: can anyone give some light?
20:43 mcefan: or know someone who can?
20:53 tschakMAC: it's very simple, LinuxMCE just wants a single jpeg image
20:54 tschakMAC: it will keep requesting that image, over and over.
20:54 tschakMAC: (with the Get Video Frame command)
20:55 tschakMAC: if you look at the device templates, for say the Panasonic IP camera
20:55 tschakMAC: all it's doing is an HTTP request, to grab that image
20:56 tschakMAC: and passing it back to the system.
20:56 mcefan: that's what i thought
20:56 mcefan: so all that's needed is the right path?
20:58 tschakMAC: if it's an ip camera talking over HTTP, yes.
20:58 tschakMAC: you have to understand, LinuxMCE doesn't give a shit where the data comes from
20:58 tschakMAC: it just wants it
20:58 mcefan: ok
20:58 tschakMAC: in the panasonic ip camera template, we just do HTTP requests by hand
20:58 tschakMAC: get the data
20:58 mcefan: that's clarifies it
20:58 tschakMAC: and pass it back.
20:58 mcefan: ok
20:58 mcefan: so what's necessary from the camera end?
20:59 mcefan: just a jpeg?
20:59 tschakMAC: yes. Get Video Frame expects a JPEG.
20:59 mcefan: ok what about codecs?
20:59 tschakMAC: when you go to a security camera page, you can see in the source code, it just ...
20:59 tschakMAC: ...
20:59 tschakMAC: seriously?
20:59 tschakMAC: all we ask for is single JPEG frames
21:00 tschakMAC: codecs do not enter into it
21:00 tschakMAC: the codec, is JPEG.
21:00 * tschakMAC: resists the urge to smack you upside the head.
21:00 mcefan: ok so any jpeg capable camera should work then
21:00 mcefan: as long as you klnow the path to the jpeg
21:00 mcefan: right?
21:01 tschakMAC: yes.
21:01 mcefan: ok
21:01 mcefan: so looking for a camera, all you have to do is make sure the camra has a jpeg image
21:02 mcefan: LMCE keep getting the current jpeg image
21:02 mcefan: and that's it
21:02 mcefan: ?
21:02 tschakMAC: yes
21:03 mcefan: ok so i can safely write that the only necessary requirement is that the camera serves a static jpeg image at a known address
21:04 mcefan: and that the path be known
21:04 mcefan: ?
21:06 mcefan: can we lookat the setup now?
21:07 mcefan: i've tried several cameras and could not get them to work, I have the path right, and the camera is jpeg capable
21:07 mcefan: what are the possible causes?
21:08 mcefan: I installed it as a plain IP and also tried the Motion wrapper, but no go
21:08 mcefan: if it's just looking for the ip and jpeg address, what could go wwrong?
21:13 mcefan: please enlighten me
21:21 tschakMAC: sorry, I'm swamped at the moment, three work contracts at the moment means I have no time to be in here.
21:21 tschakMAC: mcefan: if you want to look at what could be going wrong, look at the Generic_Serial_Device log for the camera
21:21 tschakMAC: Motion wrapper was a stop gap, intended as a hack to allow USB cameras to be manually fudged into the system
21:22 tschakMAC: if the camera is an IP camera, there is no reason to use Motion Wrapper
21:22 mcefan: ok
21:22 tschakMAC: if you need to, add additional logging statements to the path that's created
21:22 tschakMAC: and see if the path printed in the log matches what is required to send an image back.
21:23 mcefan: unfortunately, i have not gotten that far in my experience with LMCE, so i will have to get under the hood
21:23 mcefan: what else do i need to know, i will do some digging
21:24 mcefan: where do i fing the gsd log for the cam?
21:27 mcefan: also, when can you find some time for us to discuss this further? I'm trying to write step by step instructions on installation and troubleshooting on the wiki
21:40 tschakMAC: mcefan: all the logs for the devices can either be viewed in the web admin, advanced > configuration > devices, selecting the camera, and selecting View Log, or Follow Log
21:40 tschakMAC: mcefan: or you can tail -f /var/log/pluto/XX_Generic_Serial_Device.log
21:40 tschakMAC: where XX is the device #
21:40 tschakMAC: all of the logs for the various devices end up in /var/log/pluto
21:41 mcefan: great
21:41 mcefan: thank you
21:41 tschakMAC: no problem
21:42 mcefan: to make sure: motion is not needed for ip cams
21:42 mcefan: so install them directly?
21:43 tschakMAC: when properly configured
21:43 tschakMAC: the cameras should detect and install what they need
21:43 tschakMAC: GSD devices automatically have the Generic Serial Device package selected in their device template
21:44 mcefan: well this one did not detect
21:44 tschakMAC: and in the panasonic IP camera template, there is a MAC
21:44 mcefan: i had to manually add it
21:44 tschakMAC: let me finish.
21:44 mcefan: ok
21:44 mcefan: sorry
21:44 mcefan: i did not realize u were not done
21:45 tschakMAC: in the device template, there is a section for detecting devices
21:45 tschakMAC: for network devices, this is done via MAC address
21:45 mcefan: ok
21:45 tschakMAC: so there are ranges (in decimal) for MAC addresses, if a mac address falls within that range
21:45 tschakMAC: then the system will say it's detected, and if confirmed, will install the software it needs.
21:46 tschakMAC: you use convert_mac in /usr/pluto/bin to create a decimal mac address from a hex one
21:46 tschakMAC: the reason your camera was most likely not detected was because it's not within the range of mac addresses that we try to detect.
21:46 mcefan: ok
21:47 tschakMAC: if you're wanting to understand how all this works
21:47 tschakMAC: you need to read two documents
21:47 tschakMAC: in the wiki
21:47 mcefan: ok
21:47 tschakMAC: * Developing a DCE device
21:47 tschakMAC: * Developers Guide
21:47 mcefan: i'm actuall reading them now
21:47 tschakMAC: Developing a DCE device is mainly for C++ devices, but it does explain how the device templates work.
21:47 mcefan: just haven't finished
21:48 mcefan: ok
21:48 tschakMAC: and Developers Guide is a conceptual overview of the system
21:49 mcefan: I'll complete that reading and pull what users need to know from it
21:49 tschakMAC: ok.
21:49 mcefan: and hopefully, it's enough info
21:49 tschakMAC: just keep asking questions
21:49 mcefan: if i have any other questions, i'll post tomorrow
21:49 mcefan: or day after
21:49 tschakMAC: ok
21:49 mcefan: thank you for your help
21:49 tschakMAC: np
21:50 mcefan: thanks though, serious!
21:50 mcefan: i appreciate it
21:50 tschakMAC: you're welcome.