Author Topic: Doorbell... Help Please  (Read 3464 times)

Armor Gnome

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Doorbell... Help Please
« on: September 06, 2012, 01:20:47 am »
I thought this would be a simple addition and hopefully it is but I am not getting any closer to coming up with a supported solution despite my best efforts.  Some of my issues may be due to "doorbell" having an alternate meaning when you add the computer/PC/automation search terms with it.  Here is specifically what I am trying to to.


My core knows when someone presses a doorbell.



Once that works I can do custom events, trigger phone calls, alerts, pausing media, and all the fun stuff.  I am dumbfounded though in how to get this connection.  Here is what I have looked at doing and how I am currently approaching it.


Z-Wave:  No 'buttons' or button modules exist.  I could probably crack apart a door/window alarm to go off if the doorbell button separated the sensor units enough.  I could modify a scene controller wall switch to send a state change but as described in other posts, events were not intended to be fired by direct actions.  Soldering something onto a Z-Wave sensor really kills the PNP appeal of that technology anyways.

X-10:  Similar to the Z-Wave problems, in that no simple contact seems to exist.  I could justify spending the money on a box of used x-10 parts and probably come up with some way to get a signal back to my core but by the time I add a PC interface device to receive that signal and run isolated power lines to the doorbell (and then step down the current somehow to not have a 110V surprise for guests in the rain)  I would have already spent more on a cm15a and other parts by this point to equal a controller for another tech.

Expensive intercom as simple doorbell:  There seems to be some Insteon functions that allow for button pressing firing events but after 25 pages of the Smarthome website I only found units that talk to other intercoms and not back to a PC to keep it informed.

Other less often mentioned technologies: zigbee, KNX, proprietary systems, I even considered buying a security panel with ethernet outputs and wire a "panic" button which would act as a method of communicating something happened.  1-Wire to be honest is for hobbyists well above my abilities with bus addresses and willingness to solder onto my core.  I actually attempted a simple switch on a test machine via serial, parallel and usb but don't think I had the proper "pull up voltage" pins wired...  Each guide I found recommended a different port and some called out completely different pins.  I even considered cracking apart "the clapper" to respond to a standard doorbell chimes, then have the clapper turn on a light which would shine onto a photo intensity sensor...  There has to be an easier way.


I currently have a stand alone pc that I am purposing to act as a doorbell interface.  Basically I cracked apart a standard keyboard and if you are familiar with how they work you understand that each key is tied to a controller in the normally open position.  Pressing a key closes the circuit that the controller interprets as a key (this can be edited with a keymapper to be any input you wish)  So I have a small pc running Puppy Linux and a wire coming out of the keyboard where the Home key would be and out to a switch that I will after testing move to the doorbell.  I need to learn GSD and socket communications better before I can get "Home key" = lmce receiving an input via TCP that a button has been pressed.

 
I have some interested from the roommate to finance a doorbell solution,  together we can probably invest as much as $300 into this.  If this was one of your doorbells, how would you go about connecting it?
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JaseP

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2012, 01:40:05 am »
There is documentation on the doorbell setup using the z-wave window/door sensor modules, a standard magnetic door chime and using the magnets in the chime to trigger the z-wave door sensor...

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=131631

I suppose they are using it in reverse,... that is causing a z-wave scene to trigger when contact is made, versus lost...

There's more,... including the addition of relays for timing...

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=148558
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 01:47:37 am by JaseP »
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l3mce

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2012, 01:47:14 am »
It is my understanding the doorbell event is not functioning atm.

Posde will know.


JaseP... please stop answering questions you do not know answers to. This will not be a dialogue. Feel free to monologue.
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davegravy

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2012, 02:21:54 am »
I thought this would be a simple addition and hopefully it is but I am not getting any closer to coming up with a supported solution despite my best efforts.  Some of my issues may be due to "doorbell" having an alternate meaning when you add the computer/PC/automation search terms with it.  Here is specifically what I am trying to to.


My core knows when someone presses a doorbell.



Once that works I can do custom events, trigger phone calls, alerts, pausing media, and all the fun stuff.  I am dumbfounded though in how to get this connection.  Here is what I have looked at doing and how I am currently approaching it.


Z-Wave:  No 'buttons' or button modules exist.  I could probably crack apart a door/window alarm to go off if the doorbell button separated the sensor units enough.  I could modify a scene controller wall switch to send a state change but as described in other posts, events were not intended to be fired by direct actions.  Soldering something onto a Z-Wave sensor really kills the PNP appeal of that technology anyways.

X-10:  Similar to the Z-Wave problems, in that no simple contact seems to exist.  I could justify spending the money on a box of used x-10 parts and probably come up with some way to get a signal back to my core but by the time I add a PC interface device to receive that signal and run isolated power lines to the doorbell (and then step down the current somehow to not have a 110V surprise for guests in the rain)  I would have already spent more on a cm15a and other parts by this point to equal a controller for another tech.

Expensive intercom as simple doorbell:  There seems to be some Insteon functions that allow for button pressing firing events but after 25 pages of the Smarthome website I only found units that talk to other intercoms and not back to a PC to keep it informed.

Other less often mentioned technologies: zigbee, KNX, proprietary systems, I even considered buying a security panel with ethernet outputs and wire a "panic" button which would act as a method of communicating something happened.  1-Wire to be honest is for hobbyists well above my abilities with bus addresses and willingness to solder onto my core.  I actually attempted a simple switch on a test machine via serial, parallel and usb but don't think I had the proper "pull up voltage" pins wired...  Each guide I found recommended a different port and some called out completely different pins.  I even considered cracking apart "the clapper" to respond to a standard doorbell chimes, then have the clapper turn on a light which would shine onto a photo intensity sensor...  There has to be an easier way.


I currently have a stand alone pc that I am purposing to act as a doorbell interface.  Basically I cracked apart a standard keyboard and if you are familiar with how they work you understand that each key is tied to a controller in the normally open position.  Pressing a key closes the circuit that the controller interprets as a key (this can be edited with a keymapper to be any input you wish)  So I have a small pc running Puppy Linux and a wire coming out of the keyboard where the Home key would be and out to a switch that I will after testing move to the doorbell.  I need to learn GSD and socket communications better before I can get "Home key" = lmce receiving an input via TCP that a button has been pressed.

 
I have some interested from the roommate to finance a doorbell solution,  together we can probably invest as much as $300 into this.  If this was one of your doorbells, how would you go about connecting it?


Hey there,

The route I opted to go for is buying a GC-100. I simply connect my standard doorbell to one of the contact closure sensor inputs. Then I connect one of it's relay outputs to a simple circuit I built which rings a standard door chime. The GC-100 is plug and play with LMCE, but there's a bit of manual config needed in webadmin.

It works well for the most part. The one problem I've found is that the device seems to have issues when there is rapid on/off input or output. For example, when I ring my doorbell rapidly and repeatedly, the thing freezes and needs a reboot. Still looking into this however.


Crawtech

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2012, 02:40:09 am »
Hi all
I have the same setup as davegravy and works well for me as well but I do have the same problem if some one press the door bell button raptly
Chris Crawford 

l3mce

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2012, 04:52:49 am »
You can accept input and halt further input. It has been a while since I looked into this. I had sensors which detected lack of hydration and implemented this years ago to hydrate soil. I no longer have those.
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Armor Gnome

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #6 on: September 06, 2012, 06:57:52 am »
Thank you for the recommendations.  I hoped there was a single device solution to do this the correct way and it looks like the GC-100 is going to be it.  I don't know how many models Global Cache makes but it looks like the GC-100-06 doesn't have the terminal inputs I need for this but the GC-100-12 does.  If I take into account I am gaining a serial port (or 2), saving myself from getting another USB-UIRT for a new IR heavy room I will be adding an MD to soon the cost of these units can be justified even by my cheap behind. 

I still like my idea of getting a sensor network out of a low power thin client but just reached a point where LMCE was stalling in my attempts to move it out of my room/test bench and into the house.  If GC-100 is supported and gets me some new functionality then I am all for it.  I would like to hear about some other options though that may potentially have broader possibilities.  I am not afraid of some work to get things going.  My TC-100-102 (thin client, 102 input) involved not just making something work with LMCE, it involved making it work period.

Is anyone else using or familiar with any other HA tech that could be incorporated with LMCE to gain access to unique devices like this?  I keep hearing about enocean, zigbee, dansguardian, misterhouse, homesear, K(something) and wonder if manufacturers are building drop-in devices for those technologies as available modules to solve some issues like this that z-wave is just not broad enough for yet.  I have learned the hard way that this implementation is far from simple or easy, but I can't help but think that if a device contains it's own logic to get a signal from a sensor/switch/meter/lightcondition/etc that the 'work' would then be in getting LMCE positioned to listen in respond to whatever these sub networks are sending around ethernet, wifi, rf, etc.

Besides pricing Global Cache, I will also be doing some reading on

- The z-wave window sensor wiring (this would be a good place for a device as the gate is between the house and garage where we have z-wave plans that will need devices mesh networking to reach)
- Z-wave in-wall scene controllers.  I had thought about adding these in rooms where I still wanted the familiar light switch operation but with logic and outputs going to lamps and other wall plugs.  It wouldn't be terribly hard to mold a toggle onto the paddle for "press to ring" function that a doorbell needs.  Respond to event might be hard here as everything comes back to "a button is pressed" or "state changed"
- Security panels that have or can be expanded to use z-wave or tcp announcements.  2Gig and LynxTouch both look like likely candidates as I understand they have the ability to set house security mode, I would gain use of wired security devices and auto-dialers to be used as backups to an asterisk only outside notification system.

- Using an ATA, I could put a $2 analog telephone at the gate under a rain shield.  A visitor could dial an extension that based on security mode would announce on orbiters or forward to my cell.  I know 'incoming call' can be configured as an event to stop media etc. With some creativity I am thinking the "incomming call from extension (gate) could be made to do lots of other things as well.
 
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l3mce

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #7 on: September 06, 2012, 07:22:07 am »
The GC-100 is tits.

Quote
I keep hearing about enocean, zigbee, dansguardian, misterhouse, homesear

I have never heard of enocean... but the rest are... cool toys. Growing up I had a lot of toy guns. They don't quite compare to the real thing. That is a reference I expect you specifically will appreciate. Sorry to offend those who have... more tender feelings about firearms.
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posde

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 12:09:24 pm »
Any switch can be defined as a doorbell. Unfortunately, as l3mce pointed out, the event "Someone pressed the door bell" event (or however it is called), does not work atm. What you can do is, you can use "A sensor is tripped" and do your tasks off that event.

cfernandes

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 12:47:51 pm »
on my installation   i have a door phone 

like this  http://www.ipdoorphones.com/


works  like a charm

davegravy

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #10 on: September 06, 2012, 05:41:22 pm »
You can accept input and halt further input. It has been a while since I looked into this. I had sensors which detected lack of hydration and implemented this years ago to hydrate soil. I no longer have those.

I'm very interested in this. Right now my entire security system can be disabled by rapidly pressing the doorbell! (Shhh)

Can you recall any other details? Was this a advanced hack, or a simple webadmin setting somewhere?

JaseP

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2012, 06:00:22 pm »
Quote
I keep hearing about ...(redacted)... and wonder if manufacturers are building drop-in devices for those technologies as available modules to solve some issues like this that z-wave is just not broad enough for yet.

So right, I'm not holding my breath anymore, either. Your approach with a gc-100 seems very reasonable.

Quote
...(redacted)... but I can't help but think that if a device contains it's own logic to get a signal from a sensor/switch/meter/lightcondition/etc that the 'work' would then be in getting LMCE positioned to listen in respond to whatever these sub networks are sending around ethernet, wifi, rf, etc.

I use my MCV Vera in a similar way to the smart controller idea you're describing...

The Vera can trigger events that LinuxMCE can "see" happen (status of the lights), but doesn't "own." The Vera is easier to configure for "if A, then B," scenarios that are triggered by a Z-wave device (especially security protocol devices, like locks). LinuxMCE is better/required for control of events that are caused by anything else (media, communications, etc.). I haven't made any attempt to get the Vera and LinuxMCE to "talk" across the network itself,  as I understand they would just conflict with each other (related to MCV "lifting" the Vera's DCE logic from LinuxMCE/Pluto, if I understand correctly). LinuxMCE can (with ?!limitations?!) trigger a scenario based on an observable Z-wave event:

http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Advanced_Lighting_Settings

Quote
- The z-wave window sensor wiring (this would be a good place for a device as the gate is between the house and garage where we have z-wave plans that will need devices mesh networking to reach)

There are two approaches in the links I posted (I think both are mentioned, or can be found there)  ,...
  (1) Is to use the magnetic contact sensors to be triggered by the magnets in the doorbell ringers.
  (2) Is to wire the sensors directly to the contact switch of the doorbell button, itself.
Both have issues, as discussed in those threads (voltage, in direct wiring or duration of sensor event when rigging the sensor with another magnetic source). The Z-wave radios in the sensors might not be strong enough to bridge long distances (So, other stuff needed). The radios in keychain remotes, compatible with a WDHA-12R (see below), might have better range. Plus they're relatively simple, and potentially easier to physically hack.

Quote
- Z-wave in-wall scene controllers. ...

I have a WDHA-12R, which is similar, in some ways,.. to the in-wall controllers, you are talking about, in how they are set up, if I'm not mistaken. I've never taken the time to get mine working the way I want.

Issues I've researched/experience with these gadgets;
  (1) P.I.T.A. in terms of configuring it ("dumping" Z-wave net to them as secondary controllers)...  EZ to screw that up.
  (2) I don't even know if LMCE even responds directly to Z-wave events from these gadgets (don't think so, maybe custom?!)...
  (3) Expensive (most of them)...
  (4) To make it more complicated there are scene controllers and zone controllers,... and they work differently ... &
  (5) There's a Z-wave "zone protocol" to consider, which I don't know if LinuxMCE supports (or whether that even matters to LinuxMCE, or is completely superfluous)...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2012, 06:02:09 pm by JaseP »
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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2012, 01:45:00 am »
The Doorbell event works fine for me (in 8.10, just about to test it in 10.04). I have a "Doorbell" which is just a motion sensor connected to a GC100 as a "Doorbell (button)" (TemplateID: 1624).

I added a Doorbell event that pauses my media and runs a scenario. It works fine. I've actually got a few doorbell events for different house modes, or times of the day and they all work fine. I set all my events up via the advanced events, using the Doorbell event under Security. I assume that's the same as choosing the "Someone rings a doorbell" event from the wizard.

Cheers
Phil

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2012, 12:00:43 pm »
Phil,

would you mind taking a screenshot of the advanced page of your doorbell button device?

EDIT: nm - I think I found the problem in the KNX driver. Will report back.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2012, 12:38:43 pm by posde »

davegravy

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Re: Doorbell... Help Please
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2012, 03:51:22 pm »
One other option to note, as was recently discussed in IRC - an Arduino based solution. This isn't developed/supported yet, but it shouldn't be too difficult to implement, and Daballiemo seems to have already started communicating with an Arduino board here: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Implementing_Arduino_using_Generic_Serial_Device

Much cheaper than a GC-100!