Author Topic: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810  (Read 2914 times)

jill

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2012, 05:52:51 am »
I just got LMCE working but the admin page wont let me in.  It said my user name and password was my name but it wont except it.  Is there a way to reset it?

when you typed your name did you use a Uppercase first letter? cause it will make it the pass and its case sensitive ?
its going to be the first name you entered as you entered it
« Last Edit: February 22, 2012, 05:56:08 am by jill »

l3mce

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #16 on: February 23, 2012, 04:08:48 am »
A few things.
1. Yes... if anything else on the network spits dhcp it will break your system. In order for LMCE to transparently assimilate all of the automation hardware/media and mangle them, it must have control.

2. Because it is handling media, you are best served using the recommended nVidia hardware. With the better linux support we are able to take advantage of gpu acceleration and compositing. You can get a lot of stuff working, but it is a crap shoot and nothing else performs really well even if it goes. That being said, I can probably get it going.

3. Nobody is trying to convince you of anything. 810 has better hardware support than its predecessor and is stable. 1004 supports newer hardware and is close to stable. We are working on a dvd installer. Even if you install ubuntu, kubuntu will take over during install due to the dependency web. All you will do is throw potential problems by doing so, with the same eventual result.

In short... you are making this way too complicated. Use the recommended hardware. Give up control of the network. What do you care if it all works? It is a control issue. If you can't let go, perhaps LMCE is not the solution for you. You are fighting the core... it will only give you headaches.
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JaseP

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #17 on: February 23, 2012, 05:53:02 pm »
I'm not trying to be difficult, ... but the fact remains that everything is NOT working correctly. The problem is not the graphics chipset on 1004. That part's actually working well. The probkem is other things.

I actually have been using a base Kubuntu install (not a Ubuntu one and then converting, as I said I believe should work, provided you don't go crazy with the other packages). Problem is that when I get a decent LMCE install (a crap-shoot, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't), some little thing is broken (such as; the sound being muted and no good way to turn it back on, or me making a bone headed decision about the attached external drives, and no good way to fix it). Kubuntu is not as good as the Ubuntu install when it comes to setting up hardware. After Kubuntu is installed, my server system comes up with the sound muted. If I unmute the muted channels prior to installing LinuxMCE, the sound plays. But half the time the install borks for some other unknown reason.

As far as the "recommended" hardware, it is not always easy to get a system built with those specs,... or to switch one over to meet those specs... And let's face it, there is no good "required specs" list in the wiki or the website describing what is needed (maybe some paragraphs explaining it, but no good list)... And (under 1004) the advantage of an (older) nVidia graphics chipset over a relatively recent Intel chipset is negligible. If the base OS can use it fine, then LinuxMCE should too. I've never had problems with playback of video over an Intel chipset (at least since the Intel drivers have been stable), and the Intel drivers do handle some (limited at the very least) acceleration very well (Compiz, or native compositing, etc). From what I can see from playing around with the core,... the Intel chipsets handle LinuxMCE video playback and the interface just fine under 1004.

One big issue is sound. There should be a sound mixer available, at least under the "Programs" or "Advanced," even if it were ASCII only. There seems to be no good place to adjust sound channels in the system. If the sound channels are mis-mapped, the only way you are going to know is to have played a video or audio prior to running the LinuxMCE install. Without a mixer, a DVD installer would be no good for someone in that situation.

Now this next part,... Keep in mind that I have read the install script, so I know that there's a lot going on, that makes it not so simple,... and I mean this in the spirit of constructive criticism, ... but,...

One of the major problems I seem to be seeing is the package management (and package building) under LinuxMCE. If a LinuxMCE package is being used to replace a "normal" package, it should be versioned so that it "trumps" the old package and is seen as the latest (an "updated" package). I think there wouldn't be as much breakage if that were done correctly. I understand there will be bugs, especially while development is going on, ... But it seems that package conflicts are the "rule" in LinuxMCE rather than the exception.

If I install the modified "Pluto" version of a package, the old package should be uninstalled as part of the process, not requiring me to do it manually. And everything that is required for a basic install should be covered by a "Meta" package, installing by default all the necessary components and uninstalling the conflicting packages (and maybe that package should contain the install script, debs don't have to be just for binaries). It doesn't seem like that is happening. Or maybe it is, and there's just a ton of things falling through the cracks. Ubuntu personal PPAs (generally) work that way, even when there's a package that needs to be compiled (using DKMS, for example).

I brought up as a feature request, on that sub-forum, to flesh out the meta-data of the packages. I strongly suggest doing that,... And also, I suggest that if it is done, it's done in a separate repository from the current, and make sure it checks out before making it "Live."

The bottom line is that LinuxMCE is so very powerful, feature rich, relatively inexpensive and provides so many features that it should be the dominant multimedia center solution. That XBMC seems to dominate baffles me. The LinuxMCE developers should all be extremely proud of themselves, and with good reason. But it is so complicated to set up that even Linux "gurus" have difficulty setting it up. Linux network and system configuration is obscure enough that even LinuxMCE packaging were made easier, there would still be a market for installers and system builders. So job security through obscurity is not a real factor.

I have enough Linux experience over the last decade to solve my problems (with a little help). I just have to experiment and play with it a little more. But I would like to see this project/distro flourish. That opens up opportunities for developers, system builders, the project for more features, etc., etc. ad nausium,... The DVD install is a good idea, but I don't think it's enough. There needs to be more organization of the packages.

I'm willing to do what I can to help, but I am no coder. I can, however, help by "lifting" the metadata from the standard Ubuntu repositories and make it available as text for easy cut and paste editing into the LinuxMCE repositories. I can also try to build a database of conflicting packages to help developers improve the package repositories, and to help users understand why something doesn't  or can't work. So, I'm not just leveling criticism here, I'm willing to help...
See my User page on the LinuxMCE Wiki for a description of my system configuration (click the little globe under my profile pic).

golgoj4

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #18 on: February 23, 2012, 06:42:52 pm »
i wasn't a coder 8 months ago, but now i am. there is no try, only do, or do not. If there are problems, fix them, otherwise, going on about things that dont work in the package you got for free is pretty lame.

And sorry if i don't appreciate a lot of peoples hard work being called crap. What have you done to help lately besides just judge? There are tons of people with 'ideas' and time to talk about them, but few who cant shut up and get it done. Which are you?

*i now return this thread to it original purpose which had nothing to do with peoples comments about crap*

-a slightly annoyed golgoj4
actually, more than slightly but i self edited before possy bonks's me ;)
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JaseP

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #19 on: February 23, 2012, 07:47:03 pm »
And sorry if i don't appreciate a lot of peoples hard work being called crap. What have you done to help lately besides just judge? There are tons of people with 'ideas' and time to talk about them, but few who cant shut up and get it done. Which are you?

Maybe you missed the part where I said...
Quote
The bottom line is that LinuxMCE is so very powerful, feature rich, relatively inexpensive and provides so many features that it should be the dominant multimedia center solution. ... The LinuxMCE developers should all be extremely proud of themselves, and with good reason.

And,...
Quote
I'm willing to do what I can to help, but I am no coder. ... So, I'm not just leveling criticism here, I'm willing to help...
See my User page on the LinuxMCE Wiki for a description of my system configuration (click the little globe under my profile pic).

golgoj4

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 07:18:12 am »
Maybe you missed the part where I said...
And,...

missed nothing. but talk and forum posts is pretty useless next to picking something, studying the heck out of it, and fixing it. Thats my point  :)
Plenty of people willing to help get you started too, its just a matter of desire i suppose. I desire for things to change and target my time accordingly.  Simple really.



-golgoj4
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l3mce

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #21 on: February 26, 2012, 02:18:36 am »
I'm not trying to be difficult, ... but the fact remains that everything is NOT working correctly. The problem is not the graphics chipset on 1004. That part's actually working well. The probkem is other things.

I actually have been using a base Kubuntu install (not a Ubuntu one and then converting, as I said I believe should work, provided you don't go crazy with the other packages). Problem is that when I get a decent LMCE install (a crap-shoot, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't), some little thing is broken (such as; the sound being muted and no good way to turn it back on, or me making a bone headed decision about the attached external drives, and no good way to fix it). Kubuntu is not as good as the Ubuntu install when it comes to setting up hardware. After Kubuntu is installed, my server system comes up with the sound muted. If I unmute the muted channels prior to installing LinuxMCE, the sound plays. But half the time the install borks for some other unknown reason.

As far as the "recommended" hardware, it is not always easy to get a system built with those specs,... or to switch one over to meet those specs... And let's face it, there is no good "required specs" list in the wiki or the website describing what is needed (maybe some paragraphs explaining it, but no good list)... And (under 1004) the advantage of an (older) nVidia graphics chipset over a relatively recent Intel chipset is negligible. If the base OS can use it fine, then LinuxMCE should too. I've never had problems with playback of video over an Intel chipset (at least since the Intel drivers have been stable), and the Intel drivers do handle some (limited at the very least) acceleration very well (Compiz, or native compositing, etc). From what I can see from playing around with the core,... the Intel chipsets handle LinuxMCE video playback and the interface just fine under 1004.

One big issue is sound. There should be a sound mixer available, at least under the "Programs" or "Advanced," even if it were ASCII only. There seems to be no good place to adjust sound channels in the system. If the sound channels are mis-mapped, the only way you are going to know is to have played a video or audio prior to running the LinuxMCE install. Without a mixer, a DVD installer would be no good for someone in that situation.

Now this next part,... Keep in mind that I have read the install script, so I know that there's a lot going on, that makes it not so simple,... and I mean this in the spirit of constructive criticism, ... but,...

One of the major problems I seem to be seeing is the package management (and package building) under LinuxMCE. If a LinuxMCE package is being used to replace a "normal" package, it should be versioned so that it "trumps" the old package and is seen as the latest (an "updated" package). I think there wouldn't be as much breakage if that were done correctly. I understand there will be bugs, especially while development is going on, ... But it seems that package conflicts are the "rule" in LinuxMCE rather than the exception.

If I install the modified "Pluto" version of a package, the old package should be uninstalled as part of the process, not requiring me to do it manually. And everything that is required for a basic install should be covered by a "Meta" package, installing by default all the necessary components and uninstalling the conflicting packages (and maybe that package should contain the install script, debs don't have to be just for binaries). It doesn't seem like that is happening. Or maybe it is, and there's just a ton of things falling through the cracks. Ubuntu personal PPAs (generally) work that way, even when there's a package that needs to be compiled (using DKMS, for example).

I brought up as a feature request, on that sub-forum, to flesh out the meta-data of the packages. I strongly suggest doing that,... And also, I suggest that if it is done, it's done in a separate repository from the current, and make sure it checks out before making it "Live."

The bottom line is that LinuxMCE is so very powerful, feature rich, relatively inexpensive and provides so many features that it should be the dominant multimedia center solution. That XBMC seems to dominate baffles me. The LinuxMCE developers should all be extremely proud of themselves, and with good reason. But it is so complicated to set up that even Linux "gurus" have difficulty setting it up. Linux network and system configuration is obscure enough that even LinuxMCE packaging were made easier, there would still be a market for installers and system builders. So job security through obscurity is not a real factor.

I have enough Linux experience over the last decade to solve my problems (with a little help). I just have to experiment and play with it a little more. But I would like to see this project/distro flourish. That opens up opportunities for developers, system builders, the project for more features, etc., etc. ad nausium,... The DVD install is a good idea, but I don't think it's enough. There needs to be more organization of the packages.

I'm willing to do what I can to help, but I am no coder. I can, however, help by "lifting" the metadata from the standard Ubuntu repositories and make it available as text for easy cut and paste editing into the LinuxMCE repositories. I can also try to build a database of conflicting packages to help developers improve the package repositories, and to help users understand why something doesn't  or can't work. So, I'm not just leveling criticism here, I'm willing to help...


I understand where you are coming from, but you really need to understand that we are not a normal project. LinuxMCE is not an application, it is not even a distro... it is an appliance. It is diverse in the amount of equipment it will run on as an appliance, but because it does so very much... it does what it does with what it does until someone writes it to do it with something else. Version control already happens in the database.

It is not designed to play nice. It is designed to function, as prescribed, on compatible hardware, with the required packages and versioning. The end. It is precisely what it is. It must be in control to work. It cannot compete with anything else for that position. There are over 4 million lines of code in this project which is trunked to about a dozen other large projects. When someone upstream changes something to work the way THEY want it to, it breaks everything. We version pin or make our own packages based on interactivity/operation with everything else. We don't much care if it is the latest and greatest. We don't care if this version or that supports the card you happen to have on hand. If it does, great! If it doesn't... well... we told you what to use. There are certain things which are appealing in the newer hardware which we want to take advantage of, so we begin the process of breaking things until we come up with a stable solution which keeps the spiderweb of projects working without duct tape. Our plumbing is tangible. It is not hacked together.

There are about as many devs as you can count on one hand. There is no other open source project anywhere near this scope. Do the math. Your suggestions will only annoy people. Not because you aren't clever. Not because you are rude. Not because we are egomaniacs. Not because we are ignorant... but because you do not have the prerequisite understanding of the architecture to make suggestions on how packages are built, managed and downloaded. It is not meant to insult you. I think you are very smart, and I want you to help us, believe me... but not with top level design "ideas" not understanding how the honeycomb of plumbing works.

We are, an appliance. Think of it like a commercial dvd player. That software is designed to work with that hardware. Who cares if it is 12 yr old software so long as it works every time you stick a dvd in it. Now just attach that to an architecture that can run a house... or a neighborhood....

The devs know what they are doing... but any and all help is welcome.


Reading back, I say "we" a lot... that is because I am part of the project, and I try and fix things, make simple things... but I am not a developer. To be clear.
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JaseP

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #22 on: February 26, 2012, 03:12:54 am »
With all due respect,... This is the same tired old speech I've been getting for, what?!?! ... 3-4 years?!?!
(Well, not continuously,... but it's what drove me away the first time)

You want the bottom line as far as I'm concerned?!?! (Well, I'm certain that you don't,  but I'm a stubborn Jack- [ehem] donkey,... and will give it to you anyway)...

LinuxMCE is an Open Source project (largely, anyway).  As such there are certain principles to be adhered to. The most Importantof those is FREEDOM (I'd apologize for "shouting," but I'm in no mood). The second is important principal is OPENNESS.  That means being open as far as code, but also OPEN as far as accepting other peoples' viewpoints. It seems to me that there is a very much...  There's no good way to say it,... Monolithic,  Pro Tivo-ization, "My way or the highway" type attitude among a large number of the developers and devotees... And frankly, in a "Richard Stallman channeling" sort of way, I'm kinda disgusted with that...

I just spent the better part of 2 days helping a newbie get his legs with the system,... (see the Installation sub-forum). He doesn't even speak my language as his primary language, nor I French. Yet, I didn't see any "gurus" or what-have-you leaping to his aid as I commonly see in other Open Source projects...

I've been accused of not putting up... But where is the help for newbies?!?! Just, saying...

PS: Go ahead and ban me if you want... I'll just lead an effort to fork LinuxMCE and thereby leave any pretence of LinuxMCE being Open Source to rest...
See my User page on the LinuxMCE Wiki for a description of my system configuration (click the little globe under my profile pic).

l3mce

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #23 on: February 26, 2012, 03:37:03 am »
With all due respect,... This is the same tired old speech I've been getting for, what?!?! ... 3-4 years?!?!
(Well, not continuously,... but it's what drove me away the first time)

You want the bottom line as far as I'm concerned?!?! (Well, I'm certain that you don't,  but I'm a stubborn Jack- [ehem] donkey,... and will give it to you anyway)...

LinuxMCE is an Open Source project (largely, anyway).  As such there are certain principles to be adhered to. The most Importantof those is FREEDOM (I'd apologize for "shouting," but I'm in no mood). The second is important principal is OPENNESS.  That means being open as far as code, but also OPEN as far as accepting other peoples' viewpoints. It seems to me that there is a very much...  There's no good way to say it,... Monolithic,  Pro Tivo-ization, "My way or the highway" type attitude among a large number of the developers and devotees... And frankly, in a "Richard Stallman channeling" sort of way, I'm kinda disgusted with that...

I just spent the better part of 2 days helping a newbie get his legs with the system,... (see the Installation sub-forum). He doesn't even speak my language as his primary language, nor I French. Yet, I didn't see any "gurus" or what-have-you leaping to his aid as I commonly see in other Open Source projects...

I've been accused of not putting up... But where is the help for newbies?!?! Just, saying...

PS: Go ahead and ban me if you want... I'll just lead an effort to fork LinuxMCE and thereby leave any pretence of LinuxMCE being Open Source to rest...

I'm yer huckleberry.

It is because of your ignorance of "how things work" that prevents you from comprehending that your "suggestions" are neither novel, nor feasible. It is open, as in open to suggestion. When your suggestion is noted and dismissed, you are certainly still free to jump up and down and shout because they are dismissed... but do try and comprehend why.

We could not implement them.

You haven't helped anyone, btw. Your advice has been ineffective, and a complete waste of time. This is expected because you don't know what you are talking about. You don't understand how the system works. You don't know how the driver detection works. I do, because I wrote part of it. Where have the guru's been? Building things... and yet I still found time to answer the thread you are talking about before my first reply to you. I have spent months trying to build more ATI/Intel support. We are actually very close to a much better solution, but things are a bit in flux atm... and there are larger issues at hand... as I said... we told you what to use. I will still try and help people get their ATI stuff detected, but in truth this is mostly because I only have so much physical hardware at my disposal, and what I learn from someone elses, getting their specific NON STANDARD setup to work, will be beneficial to everyone.

Yes this is an open source project. You want to make a suggestion?

Build it.
Submit it.
If it is a better solution, it will be implemented.


But that isn't what you are doing. What you are doing  is, without the faintest clue how things work, suggest ground up redesign of a major component that WORKS.

Possy will put a stop to this thread in short order. He controls the code, and is a much nicer guy than I am... however you will not be banned. You get to disagree. You get to scream and cry like a child that you will "leave" because nobody wants to invest 300 hours to fix something that isn't broken and completely counterproductive to the project itself.

You act as if branching off lmce is a threat. IT IS OPEN SOURCE dork... and you "are no coder"
Good luck with that.
I never quit... I just ping out.

golgoj4

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2012, 05:50:13 am »
I vote for banning you so your clueless attitude doesn't spread. But as i like to say, its a good thing im not in charge. Seriously, you claim to have spent 10 years turning people onto linux, yet you cant do what I did never having used linux before? Please, just stop. You arent doing anything but making an ass out of yourself.

But, your post about 'considering coming back' as if we care or have some interest in serving you information (which you clearly ignore) on a platter. We have other things to do. Like helping users who can follow directions.

Oh, and its wide open. you just need the intestinal fortitude to jump in. I think we can all make an assessment in that capacity from all the talk...

seriously, go troll someone else's forums.
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l3mce

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Re: Cannot install Linux MCE 0810
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2012, 06:51:02 am »
This is all getting a bit unnecessarily unpleasant.

If you would like some explanation of why things are the way they are, you can drop into irc... where I am at most of the time... helping noobs.

Please be civil.
I never quit... I just ping out.