Author Topic: Heating Control  (Read 1437 times)

jameswilson

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Heating Control
« on: October 18, 2011, 02:43:17 am »
Hi all
I currently use Myth for media around the house, but want to improve my heating controls.

It seems daft to me to only have 1 temp sensor etc so id like some way to monitor temps in various locations. Setup zone temps etc based on time/alarm system status etc. ie no point increasing the temps if the alarm is still set.

Unfortunaty i cant get cables to temp sensors or rad valves. I had thought of making my own in vb.net but i still struggle on finding a wireless temp monitoring solution.

Anyone got anywhere with doing something similar?
I also want to conrtrol lighting etc but my biggest saving i feel will be in heating IMO

Thanks
James (UK)

Aviator

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2011, 03:12:01 am »
For heating control in my home, I'm going to use a wifi thermostat to control the furnace, and in the basement I have a gas fireplace that is setup turn on and off with a relay. I have a 1-wire temp sensor in the room. just like you mention, the alarm goes off and the fireplace turns on.  I can also use the remote to turn it on and off.  A 1-wire network really is what you are looking for IMO, but you need be able to pull some wire.  I don't know if Z-wave is an option for you in this situation? I don't know much about z-wave as I use Insteon and 1-wire.

bongowongo

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2011, 05:34:22 am »

hari

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2011, 07:52:36 pm »
all z-wave temp sensors should work fine
rock your home - http://www.agocontrol.com home automation

Jones

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2011, 09:10:41 pm »
Please be aware that Danfoss Living is not supported by Linuxmce at the moment.


http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/topic,11999.0.html

apagg

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2011, 11:45:00 am »

Techstyle

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2011, 04:47:54 pm »
I am using this z-wave sensor http://store.homeseer.com/store/Everspring-ST814-2-Z-Wave-Temperature-Humidity-Sensor-P1087.aspx working very nice.
have you had it long?  How long do the Batteries last?

apagg

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2011, 04:51:45 pm »
around 6 months I think

jameswilson

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2011, 01:45:20 am »
I quite like the look of that danfoss system. But it doenst seem to accept external inputs etc? Also how would it interface into the boiler. If the rads dont need heat surly to save as much as possible it should turn the boiler off?

Id like something like that but with more fine control ie i dont want to use timers, if im in my alarm is either set or part set. If its fully set them no-one is there. If its part set im in bed. If its unset im there.

So id like to have that basic control but id also like to not heat rooms that are not occupied. ie office, spare rooms etc.

Maybe im wanting too much from a heating system lol

posde

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2011, 02:40:35 pm »
jameswilson,

one should really think about what exactly one wants to accomplish. Most people think, they should have a controllable thermostat so if they are not in the house, the house doesn't get heated as much. However, there are quite a few statistics and reports floating around that say, it makes more sense energy wise to keep the house heated at all times to a specific temperature, than to change it multiple times over the period of a day. i.e. the energy needed to reheat a house is much more, than the energy needed to keep the house at a specific temperature. There is very fine line where there is very little gain in using those controllers you are looking into, but the costs associated with them, and the time it takes to finetune them to their optimal behavior, is better spent in making sure, other energy efficiency measures are undertaken. Maybe not as fancy, but probably way more efficient. Like getting better insulation, a new heater, stuff like that.

Techstyle

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2011, 03:18:44 pm »
A word of warning, if you set up a house with thermostatically controlled radiators (manual or Automated) you have to make sure that at least one of them is not controlled in that way because if you ever get to the point where all raditaors are closed you will damage the pump.

Usually people will leave a radiator always on in an area like a bathroom where continual heating can aid things like towel drying.

twodogs

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2011, 04:28:41 pm »
Quote
energy needed to reheat a house is much more, than the energy needed to keep the house at a specific temperature

There is a lot of info floating about on this subject, but lowering the thermostat for any period of time always saves energy. A furnace's job is basically to resupply a home's energy loss. Energy loss is proportional to the difference between inside and outside temps. A common analogy is that a home is like a leaky bathtub - the higher the water level, the faster water gushes through the leak. Let's say that your t-stat is programmed to reduce the home's temperature after you leave for work, then raise it again in the evening when you return. In the morning your furnace stays off until the lower temp is reached. The heating fuel saved during the "off" period is roughly equal to the heating fuel required to bring the home back up to temperature in the evening. During most of the day, the lower t-stat setting means that there is less temp difference between inside and outside, so less energy is lost.

Cost effectiveness is a separate question. Steps taken to tighten and insulate your home are almost always more cost effective. Many homes have huge holes in the insulated envelope that leak huge amounts of energy. Sealing attic hatches, plumbing races, and around chimneys takes little time and can save a lot.
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Techstyle

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2011, 05:40:32 pm »
Many homes have huge holes in the insulated envelope that leak huge amounts of energy. Sealing attic hatches, plumbing races, and around chimneys takes little time and can save a lot.

This leakage of air results in the 'stack effect' where leakage out of the house is replaced by cold air being drawn in from outside at lower levels.  Like twodogs said sealing penetrations into unheated areas can make a huge difference - light fittings and cable runs are also leakpoints - so when you are running your Cat 5/6, AV cables remember this.

Special procedures should be used when sealing around hot items for example chimneys, heating flues and potlights - do some research

jameswilson

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Re: Heating Control
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2011, 08:40:11 pm »
Id agree that good insulation, better glazing etc will make big savings. I also agree that re-heating a home from a cold temp takes more energy than holding a set temp. I have a very efficient boiler but i live in the country and run my heating on LPG.
My current system has an intelligent thermostat with timers. It sets an economy temp and a comfort temp.

I have readup and set the economy temp as 15 degs C and the comfort as 19.5

However 15 degs is fine when im not there (sometimes a day or two) but too cold IMO for night time use. Also when in economy mode due to the nature of the TRV's some rooms will be taking more heat than required (as they dont know they are in economy mode) and the boiler will only switch off when the single termostat gets to 15 degs.

I feel there will be savings as well as the temp being more accurate in all rooms when in comfort mode. But i dont want to rely on just timers. SOmetimes i get back from work at 4pm, sometimes 10pm. Im sure a lot of you are the same.

So it makes sense to me to have proper, accurate and intelligent control per room / rad. Plus my intruder alarm (my job is electronic security) knows when im in, out and in bed. It seems logical to link them.

I did start a project using 24v cabled valves as I write the intergration software at work for linking cctv, intruder access and fire together in .net. But i couldnt find a pretty and reasonably priced room temp sensor and the wiring would be a nightmare in my house. So i shelved it. It seems some things are getting close but i cant find anything that is perfect and expandable. Maybe the new nest project or google HA system will provide the answers.

If the new danfoss system is zwave and they have temp sensors in the tvr's (looks like it) then it make be possible to use these rather than their own controller.