Author Topic: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing  (Read 8932 times)

bongowongo

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Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« on: August 28, 2011, 02:38:09 pm »
Is there any easy way to produce/view a hierarchical list of how the wiki is currently laid out? Or just a list of pages showing how the categories are organised? Just from the point of view of working out what needs doing and where.

Possy told me that the following page could give you somewhat of a hierarchy
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Special:SpecialPages

Talking with Purps in a different topic about researching the structure of the wiki.
It is very important to understand how the linuxmce wiki is organized. I know that a lot of articles are inherited from Pluto. This makes information sometimes out of date, not catogorised properly, in the end it doesn't help to have a clear wiki.

After identifying the problems a task more further down the road woudl be to unify or standardize the pages
a helpfull link provided by Purps.

http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/MythTV:Manual_of_Style

This will be a complex task and will take longer to complete.




purps

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #1 on: August 29, 2011, 02:47:04 am »
I'm assuming we can't divide the wiki into separate sections for 710, 810, 1004 etc because a lot of information applies to all of them? I guess a tagging system that says what is relevant to what version similar to what we have now is the way forward there. definitely need to make that look nice though.

Sorry, going off topic there already. To be honest, I don't really have any feel for how the wiki is currently organised, nor do I have a feel for how it SHOULD be organised. I thought it was just a huge bunch of pages with the relevant categories written in there, and that some dictates what goes where. Where are the categories and sub-categories decided, is that the real question here?
1004 RC :: looking good :: upgraded 01/04/2013
my setup :: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Purps

twodogs

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2011, 05:16:42 am »
I have not noticed much of any organization to the site. If I need to find something, I get completely out of the site and do a Google search "LinuxMCE telecom configuration" or something. Then I find a whole lot more than I could ever find in the wiki. A lot of the info and tutorials are alphabetical by title, which means if someone wants to find a tutorial about setting up a RAID, they must look under "C" for "Create RAID"

I think the front page of the wiki can be brought under control. Its when you start to drill down that the problems really get bad. So here is my suggestion:

Looking at the "Support" heading on the wiki front page, it seems to me that "Hardware" and "Troubleshooting" do not need to be there. I'd suggest that everything in those categories be moved to "Tutorials/Guides". Then we should really organize the "Tutorials/Guides" category. Lacking any better idea, why not organize it as it appears on the TV screen - Lights, Media, Climate, Security, Telecom, and Advanced? Then we might want to add "Hardware", and "Installation". If these titles need more info we could use parentheses, ie Lights (Home Automation). I think that all Hardware or Troubleshooting articles would fit nicely in those categories.

http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
system:
ASUS P5N7A-VM
integrated GeForce 9300
E5200 processor
Fusion 5 lite HDTV card
2G RAM
SYBA SY-PCI15001 6-port serial card
Denon AVR 3805
LG 42" Plasma
Gyration GYR3101
Cisco SPA3102 analog telephone adapter
Cisco 7971G IP phone/orbiter

DragonK

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2011, 08:22:04 am »
why not organize it as it appears on the TV screen - Lights, Media, Climate, Security, Telecom, and Advanced?

For me This Sounds like a good idea.
Than it would be easier to find what your looking for.

Karel

Kezza

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2011, 08:31:58 am »

I think the front page of the wiki can be brought under control. Its when you start to drill down that the problems really get bad. So here is my suggestion:

Looking at the "Support" heading on the wiki front page, it seems to me that "Hardware" and "Troubleshooting" do not need to be there. I'd suggest that everything in those categories be moved to "Tutorials/Guides". Then we should really organize the "Tutorials/Guides" category. Lacking any better idea, why not organize it as it appears on the TV screen - Lights, Media, Climate, Security, Telecom, and Advanced? Then we might want to add "Hardware", and "Installation". If these titles need more info we could use parentheses, ie Lights (Home Automation). I think that all Hardware or Troubleshooting articles would fit nicely in those categories.


I was thinking about this idea today but using the web admin breakdown as it expands the list a little more (such as irrigation and events along with network related info, power usage monitoring etc etc).

Either way I think it could be a good starting point to break the site down into manageable areas.

purps

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2011, 10:19:42 am »
Quote
why not organize it as it appears on the TV screen - Lights, Media, Climate, Security, Telecom, and Advanced?

I'm not sure it can be as simple as this, as many pages either won't be specific to any of them, or may apply to more than one. I tried to organise my user page in this way, and it made sense to a certain extent, but it was still difficult, and that was for a single setup.
1004 RC :: looking good :: upgraded 01/04/2013
my setup :: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Purps

twodogs

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2011, 02:14:07 pm »
Kezza suggested using the list from web admin as a start. That would give us something like the following:

Installation
A/V Eqipment
Media Directors
Orbiters
Lights
Climate
Irrigation
Security
Phone
General Serial Device
Scenarios
Events

Just like now, we could link articles in different categories. For instance, a Denon AV receiver would link to A/V Equipment and General Serial Devices
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 02:16:35 pm by twodogs »
http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
system:
ASUS P5N7A-VM
integrated GeForce 9300
E5200 processor
Fusion 5 lite HDTV card
2G RAM
SYBA SY-PCI15001 6-port serial card
Denon AVR 3805
LG 42" Plasma
Gyration GYR3101
Cisco SPA3102 analog telephone adapter
Cisco 7971G IP phone/orbiter

twodogs

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #7 on: August 30, 2011, 02:50:30 pm »
OK, I'm just brainstorming here, but I came across an interesting site. It is a wiki about wikis, and I like the format as well as the content. The info on the left always lets the reader know exactly where he is, within the wiki. There are only three levels, so you don't have to drill down forever to find things.

http://wiki.customware.net/repository/display/wwyw/Chapter+01+-+Introduction

I don't know how hard this would be to set up, but maybe we could combine the users manual and wiki. The top level would be the official manual, then lower levels would be user submitted content. For instance, if I wanted to learn about lighting, I would click on "Lights" and read the manual. The second level would have subheadings for X10, Zwave, and Insteon. The third level would have articles on the devices.

This reminds me of college where I would always try to buy used textbooks. Not only would I get the authors content, but I would get all the notes scribbled by previous students.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 02:53:23 pm by twodogs »
http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
system:
ASUS P5N7A-VM
integrated GeForce 9300
E5200 processor
Fusion 5 lite HDTV card
2G RAM
SYBA SY-PCI15001 6-port serial card
Denon AVR 3805
LG 42" Plasma
Gyration GYR3101
Cisco SPA3102 analog telephone adapter
Cisco 7971G IP phone/orbiter

purps

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #8 on: August 30, 2011, 04:53:25 pm »
OK, I'm just brainstorming here, but I came across an interesting site. It is a wiki about wikis, and I like the format as well as the content. The info on the left always lets the reader know exactly where he is, within the wiki. There are only three levels, so you don't have to drill down forever to find things.

http://wiki.customware.net/repository/display/wwyw/Chapter+01+-+Introduction

I don't know how hard this would be to set up, but maybe we could combine the users manual and wiki. The top level would be the official manual, then lower levels would be user submitted content. For instance, if I wanted to learn about lighting, I would click on "Lights" and read the manual. The second level would have subheadings for X10, Zwave, and Insteon. The third level would have articles on the devices.

This reminds me of college where I would always try to buy used textbooks. Not only would I get the authors content, but I would get all the notes scribbled by previous students.

This is just the kind of thing that I would want to see personally, but we'd have to think very carefully about the categories. I also think 3 levels should be the maximum, otherwise it would just get too convoluted.

With regards to that web admin list, that can't include everything, can it? I would have thought that would be a list of sub-categories, inside a "user manual" section for example. You would still then need other categories for "user pages", "hacks", etc, I dunno.

This was my attempt from another thread at generalising the wiki pages into sensible categories (not complete)...

-Hardware pages eg motherboards, z-wave device
-User pages
-Overview pages eg this is an MD, this is a core, the network must be set up like this because...
-Instructional pages eg the procedure for adding a light, NOT hacks
-hacks
1004 RC :: looking good :: upgraded 01/04/2013
my setup :: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Purps

bongowongo

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #9 on: August 30, 2011, 05:50:19 pm »
This is just the kind of thing that I would want to see personally, but we'd have to think very carefully about the categories. I also think 3 levels should be the maximum, otherwise it would just get too convoluted.

With regards to that web admin list, that can't include everything, can it? I would have thought that would be a list of sub-categories, inside a "user manual" section for example. You would still then need other categories for "user pages", "hacks", etc, I dunno.

This was my attempt from another thread at generalising the wiki pages into sensible categories (not complete)...

-Hardware pages eg motherboards, z-wave device
-User pages
-Overview pages eg this is an MD, this is a core, the network must be set up like this because...
-Instructional pages eg the procedure for adding a light, NOT hacks
-hacks

I think the webadmin is very difficult to find stuff. So we can use it as a start, but I had troubles finding a lot of things at first.
I think the webadmin should also be rewritten, but that has of course nothing to do with the wiki

twodogs

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #10 on: August 30, 2011, 08:44:21 pm »
It seems like we are starting to reach consensus on a general arrangement, but none of us are quite satisfied with the details. I agree that the list I posted (based on web admin) can be added to or even completely revised. I agree that if we come up with a really logical list, then that might serve as a basis for improving the web admin. I think that a wiki of three levels is a good number - any more and things get convoluted, any less and I think we'd have a category explosion.

Though we do not have the details ironed out, perhaps we are almost ready to make a start. If a particular branch of the wiki goes unfilled, then it is a candidate for removal. If a branch looks like it wants to go deeper than 3 levels, then we create another branch. It also shouldn't be too hard to rename branches after we get going.

However, it would be nice to start with the best outline we can think of. If we don't like the way the LMCE screen or web admin organize things, then maybe we have a few more days of brainstorming. I'll take everyone's notes from this thread, and come up with another option. I suggest we keep brainstorming until we have an 80% solution, then see if Bongo thinks we're ready to implement.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 01:18:28 am by twodogs »
http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
system:
ASUS P5N7A-VM
integrated GeForce 9300
E5200 processor
Fusion 5 lite HDTV card
2G RAM
SYBA SY-PCI15001 6-port serial card
Denon AVR 3805
LG 42" Plasma
Gyration GYR3101
Cisco SPA3102 analog telephone adapter
Cisco 7971G IP phone/orbiter

twodogs

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #11 on: August 30, 2011, 10:25:46 pm »
This is a first hack at the first and second levels of the new wiki. The third level would mainly be the articles themselves. I dug all over the wiki hardware and tutorials. I think most of the articles can fit into the following structure...



LMCE Installation Instructions (with pictures/videos)

LMCE Operation Instructions (with pictures/videos)

Core/Hybrid
 -Built systems (Dianemo, etc)
 -motherboards
 -video cards
 -TV capture
 -video capture
 -serial cards
 -network cards
 -sound cards
 -Raid

Media Directors
 - Built systems
 - Motherboards

Network
 -modems
 -routers
 -NAS

Control
 -Remotes
 -Orbiters (laptops, smart phones, VOIP phones, webpads)
 -Bluetooth
 -RS232
 -USB
 -IR

Media
 -Displays
 -DVD
 -MythTV
 -satellite boxes
 -cable boxes
 -Amps/Receivers
 -squeezbox

Automation (lights, climate, irrigation)
 -Aeon labs
 -Insteon
 -Zwave
 -X10
 -One-wire

Security
 -web cams
 -alarms

Telecom
 -Analog Telephone Adapters
 -VOIP phones

Scenarios/Events

User pages

Wiki Tutorial (Adding and Administering Content)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 08:01:24 pm by twodogs »
http://greenrenovation.wordpress.com/home-automation/
system:
ASUS P5N7A-VM
integrated GeForce 9300
E5200 processor
Fusion 5 lite HDTV card
2G RAM
SYBA SY-PCI15001 6-port serial card
Denon AVR 3805
LG 42" Plasma
Gyration GYR3101
Cisco SPA3102 analog telephone adapter
Cisco 7971G IP phone/orbiter

bongowongo

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2011, 12:01:25 am »
All good input
I am very busy now. I will comment on everything end of this week/ weekend.

purps

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2011, 10:43:39 am »
twodogs, I think that is a really good first cut. I'm really coming round to this idea.

Pedantic point 1: TV capture, what about the homerun? It should go under network with "NAS" for example, but then you want to keep TV hardware together.
Pedantic point 2: Do you think there is a blur between "automation" and "security"?


Generally speaking, personally I was keen to separate the "information" from the "hacks", and with your structure they will all be lumped in together. I think the "hacks" do have a place contrary to what some may think, but it should be made clear that they ARE hacks.

Maybe this could be achieved using your structure, but having something at the top of the page that indicates this? Not unlike what we have now showing what version of LMCE the information is relevant to, maybe have an additional box saying "tested" or "recommended" or "hack" or whatever. I've decided I don't like the current system, as one can basically write whatever they want in there and it doesn't look structured. At the moment I envisage two columns, 1st being a list of the versions, and then for each one (in column 2) there should be A FEW pre-defined options for each one. The date and who added the information just isn't necessary.
1004 RC :: looking good :: upgraded 01/04/2013
my setup :: http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/User:Purps

bongowongo

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Re: Task | Identify structure of wiki | reqruiting / assessing
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2011, 12:07:07 pm »
twodogs, I think that is a really good first cut. I'm really coming round to this idea.

Pedantic point 1: TV capture, what about the homerun? It should go under network with "NAS" for example, but then you want to keep TV hardware together.
Pedantic point 2: Do you think there is a blur between "automation" and "security"?


Generally speaking, personally I was keen to separate the "information" from the "hacks", and with your structure they will all be lumped in together. I think the "hacks" do have a place contrary to what some may think, but it should be made clear that they ARE hacks.

Maybe this could be achieved using your structure, but having something at the top of the page that indicates this? Not unlike what we have now showing what version of LMCE the information is relevant to, maybe have an additional box saying "tested" or "recommended" or "hack" or whatever. I've decided I don't like the current system, as one can basically write whatever they want in there and it doesn't look structured. At the moment I envisage two columns, 1st being a list of the versions, and then for each one (in column 2) there should be A FEW pre-defined options for each one. The date and who added the information just isn't necessary.

re: hacks

The problem with hacks is that they can get outdated very quickly and are usually not maintained. Also hacks in the forum are not in the wiki.
I see that they are very usefull, but on the other hand very confusing. I remember in my newbie days following wiki-hack page that was outdated and didn't work. It should not happen.