Author Topic: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?  (Read 5169 times)

davegravy

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2011, 05:28:38 pm »
Yes that version info table is extremely useful, if a little annoying to fill out. It was weirdbeard65 who came up with that I think.

How would one go about tracking wiki pages and assigning tasks? I'm assuming using Trac for example would be overkill?

I am going to have a think about how to reorganise the main page from the point of view of the new user, it could be a bit more logical I guess.

Cheers,
Matt.

This is a great idea! Also I've been wanting to do a reinstall and take notes about my steps from the point of view of a new user. If we could get a bunch of people to do this (with different sets of hardware) perhaps we could:

a) put together a more comprehensive installation/setup guide (one that also deals with the multitude of problems that might be encountered along the way)
b) determine some opportunities for improving the installation experience from a development point of view

frustrated

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2011, 08:29:03 am »
This is a great idea! Also I've been wanting to do a reinstall and take notes about my steps from the point of view of a new user. If we could get a bunch of people to do this (with different sets of hardware) perhaps we could:

a) put together a more comprehensive installation/setup guide (one that also deals with the multitude of problems that might be encountered along the way)
b) determine some opportunities for improving the installation experience from a development point of view

I'm definetely up for helping on this one.  I've kept notes over the last week as I've done all my installs.  Fortunately, my capture card and z-wave USB interface are the way, so I can really get into it.

brononius

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2011, 01:43:20 pm »

I am going to have a think about how to reorganise the main page from the point of view of the new user, it could be a bit more logical I guess.


Hey Matt,

You've answered this to soon. I wanted to suggest just the same thing. Let us rebuild the whole manual stuff.
A nice startpage with different sectors (global idea, hardware, installation guides, electrical part, telephone part, media...).

The problem today i see is:
- some people speak computer languages
- some people are using for years linuxmce
- some people only want the media part, others the domotica
- nobody (this is for all IT people!) wants to write manuals
- ...
LinuxMCE is to big to explain on one A4 page (Why doesn't this sound the same on a computer?).


I've had (got) the same frustrations like many of us, new users.
I installed it several time (1 year ago i gave up). And i came back. Because i believe in the general idea of linuxmce. Mainly because today, you don't have a proper (cheap) domoticaserver. One of the reasons that the house automation doesn't come up?
Now, it's very hard to see the red line between it all.
For the moment, I finally managed to install the software on my server. I finally managed to get a light on/off. Next is an orbiter. After that some ip phones... Still need to figure out how i can add my power outlets, my playstation, how to use the orbiters...
And the hours i put in it, just to get a light bulb on... It's a bit...


A long the way, i try to write it down in steps that i can remember. Of course, this is again for me. Because i use it as such.


I think we should create a nice folder structure, with in there manuals, forum topics, the wiki pages, the faqs...
Let me know if we want to start a work group or something for this! I'm in....


ps i've got the same feeling with the forum. I think that this can also use some more detailed subgroups... :-X
Maybe a subgroup for discussions about documentation? ;)
Version: linuxMCE 1004 (v 2012-07-01)
Extra's: Cacti, webmin, phpmyadmin, joomla

Server: MSI MS-7519 / E7400 2,8GB / 4GB / SSD 60GB / Radeon HD4350 / RTL8111 - 3C905C-TX
Orbiters: HTC Desire Z, HP PocketPC, Samsung Galaxy S, iPAD, ASUS eeePAD
Automation: EIB technology, KNX IP ROUTER 750
Phones: Cisco 7940, Cisco 7960
Camera's: IPCAM02

bongowongo

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2011, 06:42:28 pm »
I like all your enthusiasm, but experience tells me

Big plans, no outcome.

Let's do this right. I will make a forum topic with some outlines, I will post it here
Everybody who wants to join, can participate in the topic

We can put together a little focussed workgroup. The only thing I ask is some commitment.
This is to prevent that people come, say that they will do X but never finish and we have a half finished project.

Let me think about this.




Hey Matt,

You've answered this to soon. I wanted to suggest just the same thing. Let us rebuild the whole manual stuff.
A nice startpage with different sectors (global idea, hardware, installation guides, electrical part, telephone part, media...).

The problem today i see is:
- some people speak computer languages
- some people are using for years linuxmce
- some people only want the media part, others the domotica
- nobody (this is for all IT people!) wants to write manuals
- ...
LinuxMCE is to big to explain on one A4 page (Why doesn't this sound the same on a computer?).


I've had (got) the same frustrations like many of us, new users.
I installed it several time (1 year ago i gave up). And i came back. Because i believe in the general idea of linuxmce. Mainly because today, you don't have a proper (cheap) domoticaserver. One of the reasons that the house automation doesn't come up?
Now, it's very hard to see the red line between it all.
For the moment, I finally managed to install the software on my server. I finally managed to get a light on/off. Next is an orbiter. After that some ip phones... Still need to figure out how i can add my power outlets, my playstation, how to use the orbiters...
And the hours i put in it, just to get a light bulb on... It's a bit...


A long the way, i try to write it down in steps that i can remember. Of course, this is again for me. Because i use it as such.


I think we should create a nice folder structure, with in there manuals, forum topics, the wiki pages, the faqs...
Let me know if we want to start a work group or something for this! I'm in....


ps i've got the same feeling with the forum. I think that this can also use some more detailed subgroups... :-X
Maybe a subgroup for discussions about documentation? ;)



http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php/board,347.0.html
« Last Edit: August 24, 2011, 07:27:49 pm by bongowongo »

e_balk

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2011, 03:55:10 am »
Hi all,

First of all i would like to say how great an idea i think LinuxMCE is!
The idea of an all-round Media-center / Home Automation software package is great and i think a lot of great things have been achieved. I like the compatibility and broad approach of all you guys to get the most widely usable product there can be.

I would like to be of assistance to this project although i have no skills in programming i do have some experience with project management and have commercial experience in translating user wishes to task descriptions for programmers, this experience might help the programming community of this project find some ease and direction in their efforts to build a stable base from which the more advanced features can be worked out. Maybe it would be possible for me to get in contact with some of the "owners" of this project to sit and talk about the current situation, status and the possibilities, because i think there might be a lot more possible with this project.

If you are interested and would appreciate the extra set of brains please PM me or mail me as you undoubtedly have access to my email-address from this forum.

With kind regards,
Erwin

PS. I'm very interested in helping with the design of the UI to, i'm all for simple and sleek interfaces and would be willing to help create some template for such a subproject.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2011, 04:10:06 am by e_balk »

tschak909

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2011, 04:30:54 am »
Hello,

You aren't the first Project Manager to come in and suggest a need for your services, so I will say the same thing that I've said time and time again, when someone like you comes in here:

We do not have enough manpower to even warrant a management layer. Simple as that.

We need people to just get in and do the work.

It's easy to pretend to be in charge. It's yet another when you take the burden on your shoulders, and realize that you are now a slave to all around you; A very humbling thought.


I say this, because quite frankly, I've seen so many people like you, vie for power positions...just because you think you can do it. You scare me. People who want power rarely deserve it.

Those who handle it best, are the ones who have it thrust upon them and take it because they have no other choice.

Ponder.

-Thom

davegravy

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2011, 05:32:25 pm »
Hello,

You aren't the first Project Manager to come in and suggest a need for your services, so I will say the same thing that I've said time and time again, when someone like you comes in here:

We do not have enough manpower to even warrant a management layer. Simple as that.

We need people to just get in and do the work.

It's easy to pretend to be in charge. It's yet another when you take the burden on your shoulders, and realize that you are now a slave to all around you; A very humbling thought.


I say this, because quite frankly, I've seen so many people like you, vie for power positions...just because you think you can do it. You scare me. People who want power rarely deserve it.

Those who handle it best, are the ones who have it thrust upon them and take it because they have no other choice.

Ponder.

-Thom

What's up with the assumption that a manager is someone seeking to usurp power? In our working lives one's manager is usually one's superior, but

A) this isn't our working life, and
B) even in the working world it can be the opposite (e.g. I frequently manage my boss - he is technically very competent but he lacks any organization and relies on me for that. There's no threat of me stealing his thunder)


tschak909

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #37 on: September 04, 2011, 05:39:45 pm »
I do realize that I have made a very sweeping assumption here. My original assertion that we do not have sufficient manpower still stands. The latter assumption came from waves of people who have come to us in the past and exhibited this behaviour. Fool me once...shame on you...fool me twice? ;)

Okay, I will relent, and back off from this assumption.

e_balk, thank you for your offer of help. We do not have sufficient numbers of people that warrant being managed. Perhaps there are other ways you can help? Documentation? Learning the system and supporting users? This would help in the short term, and give enough experience to perhaps take on bigger roles in the future.

-Thom

bongowongo

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2011, 06:54:03 pm »
Managers are bad, I am one.

We need do-ers and builders
not self-proclaimed managers, it is useless.

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2011, 02:51:22 pm »
He was talking about Project Management and not being a Manager.  Depending on the organsation Project Managers can have considerable authority with cosiderable responsibility or little authority with little responsibility.  The second one mentioned is more of a coordinator role which could be useful in some areas of this project.  This person could own the list of tasks and make sure any updates or changes to the tasks or schedules were comunicated to the relevant parties.  This coordinator/facilitator role is similar to that being done by Bongowongo on the WIKI project.  The Dev's themselves are doing this role right now and this may help lighten the load a little.  I know we just need more do-ers, but we have potential facilitators that could lighten the load of the current Devs.

Just my 2 cents

bongowongo

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2011, 04:20:48 pm »
He was talking about Project Management and not being a Manager.  Depending on the organsation Project Managers can have considerable authority with cosiderable responsibility or little authority with little responsibility.  The second one mentioned is more of a coordinator role which could be useful in some areas of this project.  This person could own the list of tasks and make sure any updates or changes to the tasks or schedules were comunicated to the relevant parties.  This coordinator/facilitator role is similar to that being done by Bongowongo on the WIKI project.  The Dev's themselves are doing this role right now and this may help lighten the load a little.  I know we just need more do-ers, but we have potential facilitators that could lighten the load of the current Devs.

Just my 2 cents

We are trying to this for the wiki.

totallymaxed

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2011, 04:25:25 pm »
He was talking about Project Management and not being a Manager.  Depending on the organsation Project Managers can have considerable authority with cosiderable responsibility or little authority with little responsibility.  The second one mentioned is more of a coordinator role which could be useful in some areas of this project.  This person could own the list of tasks and make sure any updates or changes to the tasks or schedules were comunicated to the relevant parties.  This coordinator/facilitator role is similar to that being done by Bongowongo on the WIKI project.  The Dev's themselves are doing this role right now and this may help lighten the load a little.  I know we just need more do-ers, but we have potential facilitators that could lighten the load of the current Devs.

Just my 2 cents

Sorry but I don't often agree with Thom on these kinds of issues... but I think in this case he's basically right. The existing Devs don't need managing or someone acting as a coordinator - the team is small enough and familiar enough with the tasks to not require that. What they do need is more actual people willing to get involved in the engineering of code.

Now that is not to say the OP should be discouraged by what I am saying or to feel unwanted as their are probably many other areas nestled around the actual coding effort that might well benefit from some of his skills. So I don't want anyone to see this as put down or any kind negative reaction at all.

Just my 10c worth so to speak.

All the best


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posde

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2011, 04:42:38 pm »
And we already have someone that knows how to use a whip

bongowongo

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2011, 04:47:45 pm »
Whip or Bongo?

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Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2011, 04:49:24 pm »
Whip or Bongo?

Both...

or you could 'whip your Bongo!'

:-)
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Contact me for Smart Home consulting advice here;
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