Author Topic: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home  (Read 941 times)

Aviator

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Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« on: March 23, 2011, 04:36:44 pm »
I'm listing my house for sale in a few days and my real estate agent wants me to leave the smart home platform (LinuxMCE) with the house. Two major concerns:

1) Would this violate the PPL? I'm not selling the hardware per say, just including it with the house.

2) I would have to train the new owner on and provide support for the system, so everyone here would not have to.  This would require getting paid for my time and I'm not even sure what I would need to charge.

I'm leaning towards ripping everything out and taking it with me.  Just looking for advice from the community. Thanks everyone.

bongowongo

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Re: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2011, 04:49:04 pm »
In Dutch law, you can defend that the system is a part of the home. So the home is unsellable without it. System is the house, same as your plumbing.
But you are not selling it as a business, so probably that would also not count as a violation.
Also training him is allowed, you will not violate any IP-laws. e.g. training your bongo to use Microsoft Excel, will not result in hanging by Bongo.

totallymaxed

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Re: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2011, 07:24:57 pm »
I'm listing my house for sale in a few days and my real estate agent wants me to leave the smart home platform (LinuxMCE) with the house. Two major concerns:

1) Would this violate the PPL? I'm not selling the hardware per say, just including it with the house.

2) I would have to train the new owner on and provide support for the system, so everyone here would not have to.  This would require getting paid for my time and I'm not even sure what I would need to charge.

I'm leaning towards ripping everything out and taking it with me.  Just looking for advice from the community. Thanks everyone.

I cant see that there is anything at all wrong with this from a license point of view. As long as you are selling your system as an individual and not operating a business in anyway then all is fine ie your not building LinuxMCE systems and 'bundling' a property with them ;-)

Hope the sale and your move go well.

All the best


Andrew
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klovell

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Re: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2011, 08:54:49 pm »
As an Ex-Realtor I would strongly, but respectfully disagree with your Realtor.  If this was a commercially available and installed system like what Totallymaxed's company has going then i'd say yes.  On that note, I'd say yes with a twist.  I don't know where you're located but with the current housing market i'd price the house without it and market the house with it.  It may sounds illegal or weird but it's not.  In the description of the listing i'd explain that the house is priced without the system but if the buyer wants the system it can be included for the price of $xxxx.xx (or make an offer for the automation system). If that violates any licensing laws is another topic.

There are two ways to view this and your Realtor obviously didn't think this through.
Seller: Do you really want to be attached to your house after you've already sold it?  Most people don't and a Realtor looking out for your best interest (the way they should be) would never recommend anything that would cause you to remain attached to the home for any length of time after the sale, both morally or legally.  Of course there are exceptions but this is hardly one of them.  What if the new owners are computer idiots and they keep breaking the system? How long do you really want to carry that burden?  The extra money may seem cool now but what about 2 years from now? Then there's the topic of what you're responsible for and what they're responsible for, so you'll need a contract.  Now you're providing a service with a contract and you're getting paid, we're back to the licensing issue.  I'm pretty sure in some states you don't need anything special to operate as a business.  DBA's, LLC, etc just make it more official and carry certain perks. You'll want to be paid extra for the system and that extra price of the home may boxs out potential buyers.  Most people I tell LMCE about are impressed but not impressed enough to go spend money to achieve the same. Some people will simple over look your house because while it's a cool house it is more than what they need.  In this market more buyers are trying to satisfy their needs over their wants.

Buyer:Do you really want to depend on the seller after the sale of the house?  Most buyer don't  and a Realtor looking out for their best interest would never recommend anything that would cause them to need the seller after the sale.  Most buyers would be smart enough to walk away from a situation like that.  Again, you're boxing out a subset of potential buyers.  The buyers would be more willing to take on a system that was commercially supported and not a home brewed setup that only the previous home owner and a subset of geeks on the internet (no offence) can support.  If you say there's no support, you just boxed out even more buyers. Most people would never take on something like this with out external support or the means of supporting it themselves.

I think your gut feeling is correct and you should rip it out and repair any holes or other damage left by the system.  If I were you I wouldn't even offer it unless you bought it from Totallymaxed and can transfer the support.  Don't take this the wrong way, I'm totally into LMCE but let just be honest with ourselves, most users will need some sort of support.  Maybe not using LMCE but maintaining LMCE.

totallymaxed

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Re: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2011, 09:15:46 pm »
As an Ex-Realtor I would strongly, but respectfully disagree with your Realtor.  If this was a commercially available and installed system like what Totallymaxed's company has going then i'd say yes.  On that note, I'd say yes with a twist.  I don't know where you're located but with the current housing market i'd price the house without it and market the house with it.  It may sounds illegal or weird but it's not.  In the description of the listing i'd explain that the house is priced without the system but if the buyer wants the system it can be included for the price of $xxxx.xx (or make an offer for the automation system). If that violates any licensing laws is another topic.

There are two ways to view this and your Realtor obviously didn't think this through.
Seller: Do you really want to be attached to your house after you've already sold it?  Most people don't and a Realtor looking out for your best interest (the way they should be) would never recommend anything that would cause you to remain attached to the home for any length of time after the sale, both morally or legally.  Of course there are exceptions but this is hardly one of them.  What if the new owners are computer idiots and they keep breaking the system? How long do you really want to carry that burden?  The extra money may seem cool now but what about 2 years from now? Then there's the topic of what you're responsible for and what they're responsible for, so you'll need a contract.  Now you're providing a service with a contract and you're getting paid, we're back to the licensing issue.  I'm pretty sure in some states you don't need anything special to operate as a business.  DBA's, LLC, etc just make it more official and carry certain perks. You'll want to be paid extra for the system and that extra price of the home may boxs out potential buyers.  Most people I tell LMCE about are impressed but not impressed enough to go spend money to achieve the same. Some people will simple over look your house because while it's a cool house it is more than what they need.  In this market more buyers are trying to satisfy their needs over their wants.

Buyer:Do you really want to depend on the seller after the sale of the house?  Most buyer don't  and a Realtor looking out for their best interest would never recommend anything that would cause them to need the seller after the sale.  Most buyers would be smart enough to walk away from a situation like that.  Again, you're boxing out a subset of potential buyers.  The buyers would be more willing to take on a system that was commercially supported and not a home brewed setup that only the previous home owner and a subset of geeks on the internet (no offence) can support.  If you say there's no support, you just boxed out even more buyers. Most people would never take on something like this with out external support or the means of supporting it themselves.

I think your gut feeling is correct and you should rip it out and repair any holes or other damage left by the system.  If I were you I wouldn't even offer it unless you bought it from Totallymaxed and can transfer the support.  Don't take this the wrong way, I'm totally into LMCE but let just be honest with ourselves, most users will need some sort of support.  Maybe not using LMCE but maintaining LMCE.


While I cannot see any restriction on you selling on your system as a private individual to your buyer...this does not mean I would recommend it to you...
 
I totally agree with klovell on this. This is not one of our systems...so unless the system was professionally installed or could be sold on with an extended support contract provided via the original installer you would be well advised not to sell your system to your buyer - it can only end in 'tears' for both parties I'm afraid. Uninstall it...make good any physical repairs to the property and continue to enjoy your system in your new property.

All the best


Andrew

Andy Herron,
Convergent Home Technologies Ltd

Read My Blog; http://ellipticalcurve.com

Contact me for Smart Home consulting advice here;
@herron on Twitter, inquiries@ellipticalcurve.com via email or PM me here.

Get a Dianemo License: http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=8880.msg100221#msg100221
Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Dianemo-Home-Automation/226019387454465

Sales & Info:
http://www.dianemo.co.uk

Aviator

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Re: Including LinuxMCE core with sale of home
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2011, 09:31:18 pm »
Thanks for the replies, I've decided to rip the system out and take it with me. I just bought a bunch of Insteon gear I need to wait to play with now...