Author Topic: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.  (Read 5875 times)

woter324

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Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« on: February 03, 2011, 02:40:26 pm »
Hi,

One day, I'd like to have almost everything integrated into one system. A/V and automation. I think choice of software is a good place to start and LMCE seems to cover everything nicely.

The first system I'd like to automate is the heating system. I'd like to be able to change the temperature via the web and shutdown the boiler when the required temperature is reached. I believe if the system can interface with LMCE then I get the web enabled part for 'free'.

I am impressed by the system from heatmiser dot co dot uk (Why can't I post links?). It seems to cover all my bases, but it only controls heating. Does anyone have experience of this system and whether it would be possible to integrate it into LMCE.

I am aware of other systems like the Honeywell Hometronic and Conrad systems. Do these or any other (UK compatible) system integrate into LMCE. Preferable from a manufacturer that knows the meaning of aesthetics.  :-\

Any assistance would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

W


P.S. Mod, why can I not post links???

totallymaxed

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 02:57:16 pm »
Hi,

One day, I'd like to have almost everything integrated into one system. A/V and automation. I think choice of software is a good place to start and LMCE seems to cover everything nicely.

The first system I'd like to automate is the heating system. I'd like to be able to change the temperature via the web and shutdown the boiler when the required temperature is reached. I believe if the system can interface with LMCE then I get the web enabled part for 'free'.

I am impressed by the system from heatmiser dot co dot uk (Why can't I post links?). It seems to cover all my bases, but it only controls heating. Does anyone have experience of this system and whether it would be possible to integrate it into LMCE.

I am aware of other systems like the Honeywell Hometronic and Conrad systems. Do these or any other (UK compatible) system integrate into LMCE. Preferable from a manufacturer that knows the meaning of aesthetics.  :-\

Any assistance would be gratefully received.

Many thanks

W


P.S. Mod, why can I not post links???

Hi,

I'll have a look at HeatMiser...if it has an external inteface then it can be controlled and/or interacted with.

You can't post links because of some new anti-spam-bot measures we have put in place. You need to post more than three messages (ie when your ranking becomes 'newbie') before your account will allow you to post url's.

All the best


Andrew
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woter324

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 03:22:20 pm »
Hi Andrew,

They have many devices, but I am not sure what qantifies an external interface.

Hopefully the company will get back to me. Shame they're not as quick as you.

Many thanks. Much apreciated.

W

woter324

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2011, 02:49:57 am »
Hi again,

I've been looking into the Heatmiser possible inegration again. I believe by 'interface', you mean a way of connecting the system to a PC. They have three devices that achieve this. Two ethernet and one USB (Jara 2201D). They do their own software, but it is M$ Windows based only :-(.

Not sure if I can post URLS yet. Here is the link to the page. http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/pclink.htm.

And their support page: http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/support/category-2.html

There is also a download for the Jara and Ethernet drivers for Windows. http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/support/category-10.html.

Googling JARA brings up an interesting page in Chinees. Running it through google tranlate http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jara.cn%2Fdetail.php%3FID%3D45 reveals it is a USB to RS232/422/485. So maybe another converter exists that does support Linux. All it does it take USB and connect it to Cat5e without the RJ45 connector. Maybe get a USB NIC and rewrite the drivers. Interestingly, they have MAC OS8 & 9 driver.

Heatmiser do publish their product's protocol, so I guess it would be possible to write a 'module' to allow LMCE integration. http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/support/article-6.html

They also do a product called NetMonitor that has it's own web server and connects directly to the router. I guess, as a cheat, there'd be a way of integrating this page into LMCE. Something like IFRAME.

I'm not sure where this is going. I need to be able to interface with their UH1 wiring center. I've asked the question... Documentation leads towards connecting to the thermostats in a daisy chain.

I guess I will have to take a crash course in LMCE development, write my own drivers, bug the hell out of the good peopel here ask newbie questions about developing or just put it on the LMCE wish list.

Thanks


coley

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2011, 03:41:47 pm »
woter324
Have you a heating system in place already? or are you just at the planning stages of your home heating?
According to their protocol sheet the thermostats or chronostats are connected on an RS485 bus. There are plenty of adapters out their for converting between RS232/LAN/USB and RS485.
What are your coding skills like if you want to roll up your sleeves here?

-Coley.

--
Just came across this http://code.google.com/p/heatmiser-control/ some perl scripts to talk to those controls.
-C.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 04:22:45 pm by coley »

trentend

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2011, 06:02:00 pm »
I have a heatmiser based system (an underfloor heating installation bought from Nu-heat), with a netmonitor (not the current version).  I have a copy of the v2 protocol that heatmiser kindly sent me (as well as answering a few other questions).

It is my intention to integrate this with my home automation syste, although I'm currently some way off - I don't yet have a working linuxmce system that I've settled on.

woter324

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2011, 10:19:54 pm »
Hi Coley,

My heating is in place, but most of the pipe work is accessible. The current heating system replaced the original hot air system. Since then, I have replaced the boiler with a combi system. As the central heating system was installed after the property was built, I may run into problems zoning off 1st and 2nd floors. Basically the radiator pipes run upstairs, service upstairs, then run back downstairs. All this pipe work is in 15mm pipe.

I can script a windows system or even write an HTA using VBScript. I understand the majority of VB.NET, C# or even Java. I get a little lost in the OOP side of things. Something I have wanted to do for a long time is write a programme to control a system. I was thinking with starting off with a basic VB program to interface with a motor. lol. I bought a text book and all the bits on the subject a while back but its still in the book shelf :-(. I had a look through their protocol. At the moment it is all double-dutch, so it'll be a steep learning curve.

I am certainly happy to get my hands dirty; just not sure where to start.

Regarding Heatmiser, I think I have worked out what bits I need with some help from Heatmiser. I don't seem to be able to get a definitive answer from them whether I can connect the JARA or the network interfaces to the UH1 wiring centre. Maybe someone can look over the UH1 wiring diagram and confirm? http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/support/admin/attachments/merged_uh1_diagrams.pdf

I've put together a graphical schematic, (link below) detailing the components and their location. I have run Cat5e cable all over the house, so using their 12 volt system should be possible.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/93XcUr2I99c-6pPImLHYuQ?feat=directlink

Nice find on the Google code page. From what I've read, it seems the PC control systems daisy chains the thermostats together, rather than connecting into the UH1, which is what I want. The developer uses the word 'chain', reinforcing this. I did a 'hello world' Perl script several years back, but that's about as far as I went. So how to get it to work with LMCE, I have know idea.

I might purchase the Heatmiser thermostats and the UH1 which is the important first step then move on when I find out more.

Many thanks


woter324

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2011, 10:26:03 pm »
I have a heatmiser based system (an underfloor heating installation bought from Nu-heat), with a netmonitor (not the current version).  I have a copy of the v2 protocol that heatmiser kindly sent me (as well as answering a few other questions).

It is my intention to integrate this with my home automation syste, although I'm currently some way off - I don't yet have a working linuxmce system that I've settled on.

Hi Trendent,

Are you planning on using the netmonitor as your interface into the LMCE system? Any plans on how you would achieve this? I'm thinking along the lines of  setting up a router connected between the Netmonitor and an additional NIC into the LMCE system that runs the Heatmiser protocol.

Many thanks

totallymaxed

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2011, 09:21:25 am »
Hi Trendent,

Are you planning on using the netmonitor as your interface into the LMCE system? Any plans on how you would achieve this? I'm thinking along the lines of  setting up a router connected between the Netmonitor and an additional NIC into the LMCE system that runs the Heatmiser protocol.

Many thanks

Firstly you would not need a dedicated '3rd' NIC...the HeatMiser interface would just be on the LAN side of your Core like all of the other IP based device your Core communicates with.

The NetMonitor seems to provide a high-level (with a fair bit of independent automation capability...like alarms for Zoned temp sensing etc) Web Interface to HeatMiser system features and it might be possibly to built an interface to the http side of it.

Alternatively there is the JARA USB interface to HeatMiser and the NC601 & 602 IP interfaces. Although the JARA would do the job I would favour either the 601 or 602 as it means the interface itself does not have to be in the immediate proximity of the Core (or MD) and is just a node on the LAN (we use IP interfaces whenever we have the option they are just more flexible & reliable). A HeatMiser Device Template would be required of course in all cases.

So overall from initial investigation I would prefer the NC601 (I am not clear what adavantage the NC602 two port interface offeres in the context of LinuxMCE) route to the others...but I am sure the NetMonitor is a possible route too.

All the best


Andrew
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trentend

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2011, 11:24:03 pm »
I'm a bit cold on it at the moment, because it was a while since I looked at it and then I set it aside to come back to later.  Let me pull a few of my support enquiry replies out for you (Heatmiser also do a pc connect package - windows not linux):

Quote
it is possible to send data to the thermostats along the RS485 network  but not directly to the netmonitor.
the protocol is attached  please note we cannot give technical support on its use.

Quote
You can connect to any y,b terminal and Y = A and B = B   you can draw up to 800mA from the UH1 the thermostats take a maximum of 70mA each.

Quote
The netmonitor can only be accessed from the web interface

So, basically, the netmonitor provides a web interface that allows you to set and control everything controlled by the heatmiser (plus some extra inputs and outputs - although I have some reservations over how useful they are).....which is fine if you want a web interface to your heating system (which is a good enough first stage for me).

If you want to integrate the heatmiser fully into a home automation system then you need to connect to the heatmiser bus using RS485 and use the control code protocol that heatmiser supplly (documentation not brilliant, it might be a bit trial and error to get it going).  My initial thought was to use an arduino with an RS485 interface powered by one of the unused thermostat feeds.

I didn't get much further than that, because I haven't got my linuxmce system up and running yet.  Down the line I would help out if anyone wanted to collaborate on this - unfortunately a network meltdown at work currently means I have zero spare time.

Hope it helps. 





totallymaxed

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2011, 04:07:07 am »
I'm a bit cold on it at the moment, because it was a while since I looked at it and then I set it aside to come back to later.  Let me pull a few of my support enquiry replies out for you (Heatmiser also do a pc connect package - windows not linux):

So, basically, the netmonitor provides a web interface that allows you to set and control everything controlled by the heatmiser (plus some extra inputs and outputs - although I have some reservations over how useful they are).....which is fine if you want a web interface to your heating system (which is a good enough first stage for me).

If you want to integrate the heatmiser fully into a home automation system then you need to connect to the heatmiser bus using RS485 and use the control code protocol that heatmiser supplly (documentation not brilliant, it might be a bit trial and error to get it going).  My initial thought was to use an arduino with an RS485 interface powered by one of the unused thermostat feeds.

I didn't get much further than that, because I haven't got my linuxmce system up and running yet.  Down the line I would help out if anyone wanted to collaborate on this - unfortunately a network meltdown at work currently means I have zero spare time.

Hope it helps. 



You really dont need anything like the Arduino board...just a simple direct connect RS485 interface or an IP-to-RS485 interface from any number of sources. Alternatively use HeatMiser's own interface - they make two for this purpose (601 and 602 models)... see here; http://www.heatmiser.co.uk/pclink.htm

All the best


Andrew
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trentend

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2011, 10:23:09 am »
I realise it will be a bit more hassle, but an arduino board with ethernet shield and io shield (with RS-485) can be had for about £50 against the £120 for the heatmiser ethernet to RS-485.  It will also provide some inputs and outputs that can be better integrated with home automation.  As I say, I haven't got much past the initial thought process.

totallymaxed

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2011, 10:42:39 am »
I realise it will be a bit more hassle, but an arduino board with ethernet shield and io shield (with RS-485) can be had for about £50 against the £120 for the heatmiser ethernet to RS-485.  It will also provide some inputs and outputs that can be better integrated with home automation.  As I say, I haven't got much past the initial thought process.

The advantage of the HeatMiser 601/602's is they are ready to go units (ie plug them in and they work...they dont need any firmware or other software to be installed or written to function) and would just need a HeatMiser device template in LinuxMCE to be created. A second approach would be to use a 3rd party RS485 adapter which can be found for about £50-60 and again this would not need any software beyond the device template.

We use RS485 to interface to air-conditioners & some blind/shutter controllers (eg Somfy etc) so in that sense the HeatMiser is really no different or more complex. One of the nice things about RS485 is thats its a bus based interface so it is possible to have a large number of devices attached to a single RS485 controller (all the HeatMiser Thermostats are on the bus of course).

All the best


Andrew
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jameswilson

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2011, 01:40:34 am »
Im looking at using these valves etc but dont want to buy them if they wont work. Did this get integrated?

totallymaxed

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Re: Integration with Heatmiser or other (UK) heating controllers.
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 10:46:59 am »
Im looking at using these valves etc but dont want to buy them if they wont work. Did this get integrated?

Not that I'm aware of. It was a hypothetical discussion.

Andrew
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