Messages

61

Users / Re: Lightning/climate/security

« on: January 21, 2010, 12:45:29 pm »

.....KNX is too expensive, i need additional wiring, i cannot see any advantages......

One thing that occurs to me is that because KNX is a low voltage dedicated bus (rather than a powerline bus - although KNX does also support powerline and wireless bus signalling) you can put switches in wet areas - bathrooms etc.  I supply the KNX power supply via a ups, which will keep the bus system and switches working even if mains power drops (KNX recovers eklegantly from power loss anyway).

Although the switches I use are expensive (relative to other systems) they are very functional.  Touch panels with 6 programmable functions per screen and multiple screens (including scenes).  It also has a built in thermometer and timers, along with inputs.  All this functionality means that one switch can replace many, and integrate heating, lighting, dimming, switching, and shuttering control through one interface.

Of course it's always best to go what works best for you and cost will be a factor in that decision.

62

Users / Re: Lightning/climate/security

« on: January 20, 2010, 05:48:52 pm »

Well to me it seems overkill for homeuse.
Why buy a porsche if you need a bicycle

I don't know, why isn't everybody getting about by bicycle?

Seriously, I think the sensible answer is that with the higher cost also comes higher reliability.  The KNX system is very resilient, recovers well from power failure, and the devices are well made and are long lasting (for this reason if you can pick some devices up that have been removed from an installation, as did I, you might have a reasonable expectation of many years working life left in them).

In high end installations cost may not be the most sensitive issue. You know, the kind of installations where people are prepared to pay for integrated home automation and distributed media systems.

Here in the UK I looked at every system available.  For me KNX was the most compelling.  I'd prefer it was a quarter of the price, but I wouldn't want to give up the advantages - not least a massive range of devices and styles to perform every conceivable function in a massive range of design styles. 

PLCbus appears to work on a similar bus type system to KNX.  In comparison I can find little information about it, and almost no devices.  I think traction for KNX is greater and it's likely to receive the greater support for a longer time.  Just a personal opinion.

63

Users / Re: Lightning/climate/security

« on: January 20, 2010, 11:42:59 am »

...The ETS configuration Software (Windoze only I'm afraid :-( ) can be avoided though....

I'm curious. How?

64

Users / Re: Lightning/climate/security

« on: January 19, 2010, 04:57:29 pm »

I'd just like to add a few things about KNX here.  I have installed it in my new house (though not yet integrated it with LinuxMCE - I haven''t installed LinuxMCE yet....).  Knx is very nice indeed, and quite industrial in its approach and construction.

Many manufacturers, and many vendors for it. I recommend knxshop in the UK (who also offer training, which I went on and it gave me the confidence to install). You'll find you get a substantial discount on list prices if you open an account - but prices are cheaper in Germany if that is equally convenient.

I wired each electrical socket and light fitting (or group of light fittings in the case of spotlights) individually back to the electrical cabinet.  I wired these to terminal block, supplied neutral and earth from consumer unit (in appropriately grouped sets) via power distribution terminal blocks, with live supplied from power distribution blocks via load relays (16A output).  These were either wired individually or in groups of sockets - allowing me to switch them individually or in defined groups (for example all the kitchen ones were individually wired so that appliances could be switched on or off remotely, whereas in  the lounge most sockets were grouped together, with two separate for lamps - so that lighting scenes can be controlled). With all the relays grouped together in the electrical cabinet I only had to run individual power cables.  Then I ran bus cable (no mains power) to each switch location in the rooms (this cable can be run in a tree and branch topology so it's easy to wire from one socket to the next).

The switches that I used also have thermostats, timers, and a set of inputs (allowing things like PIR's to be read locally).  I also ran bus cable to each radiator valve, to allow the KNX system to turn on and off the room heating (you can do the same with whatever heating or cooling you use, as long as you purchase carefully).

For each light, or group, I used these budget 4 output, 6 input units (I used the inputs for things like PIR's, door contacts, and simple push to make buttons for door bells etc....).

In addition to the inputs, outputs, and switches, you need a power supply and a bus interface (I have a USB and also an IP one, but I've only used the USB so far for programming purposes - the intention is to use the IP one for LinuxMCE).

I chose to use KNX cable, but you could equally use cat5 or cat 6 (and have between two and three pairs free, possibly for wiring inputs).

You also need the software to program the devices (which is circa £1000 UKPounds). Don't go for the KNX lite offering, go for the full blown KNX.  It's not cheap, but it really is very good.

65

Users / Re: Decisions on Core + MD or Hybrid approach

« on: January 13, 2010, 12:27:19 am »

......I'll let you know how I get on

Thanks, I would be interested as I will be following a similar approach. 

As an aside, totallymaxed mentioned the possibility of running a MythTV backend on another machine to allow additional recording (more tuners).  Now I have absolutely no idea how to do this, but it's in the back of my mind as a possibility.

66

Users / Re: Decisions on Core + MD or Hybrid approach

« on: January 11, 2010, 12:46:24 pm »

....Having had a chance to speak to my better half it has become clear that a specific requirement would be to have access to both Freeview and FreeSat with this system.......

Have access to, or be able to record from? - I ask because it is my intention to use the TV aerial feed to connect the television tuners, and use the satellite feeds for linuxmce.  What advantage is there in having freeview?  What does it have that freesat doesn't? Freesat already has HD transmissions supported with DVB-S2 tuners.  Freeview are starting a trial of terrestrial HD, and HD supporting DVB-T tuners do not exist yet.  The freeview landscape is likely to change after the analogue switch off (2012?), Satellite is a known quantity, supported and well understood.  It seems to me that to make a system likely to be good for 3-5 years, I'm better focussing on satellite at the moment.  Just my own thoughts, of course (about the system in the UK, not applicable elsewhere).

Now I haven't tried it myself, but totallymaxed has had four USB tuners hanging off a dual atom board.  I see no reason why you couldn't have two of each, if you so wanted.  No guarantees, you'd have to take a punt.  I intend to use satellite (including both freesat and a motorised dish) only for linuxmce.

Personally I'd be nervous about a single core as a core/hybrid, but there are no problems as a media director.

Following on from the post below for having an Atom 330 as a core. What do people think of the Zotac ION Mag Nettop (MAG HD-ND01) as a hybrid if it will only be used for a small network (ie two other Media Directors)?

It has a dual core Atom (330) processor and 2GB RAM.

If you have a NAS and a USB or Network Tuner (like the HD HomeRun), then could the Zotac Mag be used for a hybrid?

It has a Gigabit NIC and Wifi (802.11n) . Has anyone been able to make the Wifi act as Eth0 (for connecting to the Internet) and the NIC as Eth1 (for the LinuxMCE network)? Or would a USB NIC be needed (to have two NICs)?....

I don't see any reason that it couldn't be used as a hybrid, but the load on it in it's role as a media director would detract from it's throughput as a core, and vica versa.  You'd have to try it.  It would be interesting to know how many concurrent TV recordings from USB tuners it could do, while playing a HD video.  I suspect two at the best.

I also suspect that you might want to put plenty of memory in it (I know there are those who say a Linuxmce system doesn't need much memory, but with a slow processor I would want to max it out so it never becomes a limiter of the system - RAM is cheap, and I'd put 4Gb in it).

I've not tried this (although going to use some atom boards, but not as a hybrid).

As for the wifi as an ethernet connection: I've never heard anything about that, but would imagine it might be technically possible.  After all it's just another pipe as far as the machine is concerned.  How well Linuxmce could accomodate it, I really don't know.  I suspect not well.  You need advice from someone who knows the system well for that.

67

Users / Re: Decisions on Core + MD or Hybrid approach

« on: January 08, 2010, 04:36:56 pm »

....
Apart from needing a decent CPU, lots of RAM and "enough" storage (with a suitable PSU to cope), is there any reason why I can't otherwise bias the core PC to being a low energy device?

Thanks for your advice.

Hi, I'm in a similar situation and have been researching my own requirements. The conclusion I have reached is that an intel atom 330 (dual core) motherboard should provide enough processing power for a core.  It would be low power (very, in the general scheme of things).  The biggest limitation is the lack of expansion - for example hard drives and tuner cards.  The single slot available on such motherboards would have to be used for an additional network card. I intend to address this with externally powered usb devices (and a NAS in the case of storage). It's only by trying it that I will know for sure if it works, although the atom board (if bought with the nvidia ion chipset) can always be re-deployed as a media director if it doesn't work out.  I'd be nervous about this type of machine as a hybrid.

68

Users / Re: How to setup for DVB-S2 reception in the UK?

« on: January 08, 2010, 03:53:55 pm »

Viking, thanks for that.

I'm planning on using the dvbworld usb DVB-S2 tuner, with CI slot attachment.  I don't know if it will work, but I guess I just have to suck it and see.

I have a cheap HD satellite settop box (single tuner) with CI card slot (ie a certified settop box), for setting it up (and for use prior to getting LinuxMCE running).  There shouldn't be a problem getting the card activated (in the case of the Croatian one, which is used in Croatia for half the year), but at least I can problem solve any problems in comparison to the settop box.

Thank you for your efforts, much appreciated and it helps me understand more, when I know so little.

69

Users / Re: Is LinuxMCE for me?

« on: January 07, 2010, 05:35:31 pm »

I can see it, but I don't like it. Frankly, I don't like having my network architecture dictated by a single program. What happens when the next program that demands to control it comes along? There can only be one king, and up til now, that king has been me. If I let LinuxMCE be that king, what happens when, say, a virtual CD server comes along and wants to be king? That's why I like to remain king, and have software as my obedient servant.

What I have works. It works really good. That means that I want a minimum of changes.

This is one of the ways, in my view, in which you are going wrong.

I don't think you should think of LinuxMCE as a program.  Rather you should think of it as a unifying bridge architecture that draws together multiple and diverse applications and integrates them with a range of hardware, in order to present a plug and play experience to the user from the networked infrastructure upwards through individual items of functionality.

If you don't want it to be that (and the LinuxMCE network {or subnet} is a fundamental component of the system), then you may be better looking elsewhere.  Don't kid yourself, though.  You'll have to put in an awful lot of work on individual applications to get anything approaching the functionality of LinuxMCE.  This thing here is a breathtaking achievement, almost without peer.  It's flawed, and in early development stages, but don't let that blind you to what a stunning achievement it is.

 

Yep, I know I'm stubborn, but I've invested quite a lot of time into my network, and I really don't want to take unnecessary risks with it. I don't want to change too much, and especially not at the same time. Don't mess with something that works and all that.

I also do have a certain aversion to software which doesn't respect my way of doing things. Assuming a certain network architecture is one such things, but I've also thrown out programs for such things as not respecting my user interface settings (colors, look and so on). Well behaved software does not work like that. I've actually started a sketch on a manifesto for how software should behave, which, among other things, adresses this: http://rpglab.net/troberg/pmwiki.php/ESDM/EthicalSoftwareManifesto

That's fine, we all have our views on things.  It perhaps should occur to you that as the world becomes more and more integrated, and expects certain standards methods of connectivity, your system will run into increasing problems.  It may be that you are correct and everyone else is wrong, but given that they will be able to do things, and you wont, it will be little comfort to you.

I'm going to bow out here as well. I was trying to help.  I think you're profoundly mistaken in some of your beliefs (and yes, I am a professional working in the field). You have your view, and I wish you good luck.

70

Users / Re: Designing my system - help and suggestions please

« on: January 06, 2010, 10:57:45 pm »

I'm in a similar position to you, although perhaps a bit further down the research curve.  I've been looking into LinuxMCE since before it existed (I started considering it when it was only available as "Pluto").

It's confusing, but not that confusing.

Are you going to have a central server location available? ...or is one of the machines that you identify as a joint core and media director (a "hybrid")?

Generally a core needs to be a nice server type of machine. It doesn't require a fast graphics processor.  Any media directors (or hybrids, in the case of a core) need to have a supported nvidia graphocs card, capable of providing the resolution that you want to display.  This is very important. Think nvidia only (unless you want trouble).

Linuxmce will work with NAS.  It requires two network interface ports/cards (NIC's), and needs to be in charge of your network (this refers to your core). It's possible to get it working in ways other than this, but you really need to know what you are doing.

The Acer Aspire Revo R3600's make really nice media directors in their basic (cheapest Linux version) guise.  You can mount them behind monitors for a very tidy/portable media director - they may work nicely over wireless (which is built in) for streamed audio or photos, but you would likely need a wired connection for streamed media (particularly HD media).

So, you will need a core (or a hybrid core including nvidia graphics card).  You may be able to use your existing computers, but you may have to bite the bullet and buy new media directors, in the guise of Acer Aspire Revo R3600's - it's a pain but they are:

1. Cheap to buy.
2. Cheap to run
3. Use little power and generate little heat so can be left on for instant response from media (ie turn on the screen, and you're in LinuxMCE).

You can use a web-orbiter on any device with a supporting browser.  There is a suggestion to develop an orbiter fro android.  One way or other you should be able to get the control you need from your handset.

I don't know about Panasonic, but Onkyo is a good choice I have just bought a TX-SR706.  There are the codes floating around for programming it through the rs232 port.  so ultimately I expect to be able to select to watch a movie in a certain room, and Linuxmce will setup my television, audio, and lighting approriately (theoretical at this point, although my LG televisions are also programmable, and I have put in a KNX home automation lighting and power system to be able to integrate with LinuxMCE).

Good luck. I'll do my best to answer anything you want to know.  As I say, at this point this is based on my current thinking for how my system will work.

71

Users / Re: How to setup for DVB-S2 reception in the UK?

« on: January 06, 2010, 10:33:16 pm »

I might be wrong (usually am) but I'm sure I read somewhere that it says in Sky's T&C's, you can't use cards to recieve their encrypted content. You have to use a STB. The same seems to be true of Cable with Virgin.   

I'd love to be proved wrong and for you to write a wiki page on this once you get it working At the moment, I'm setting up using my STP and a PVR-150 which is not perfect I plan to add some cards for freeview.

Unless of course, you are using a service from a different provider?

Yes, using other providers. I'm only interested in FreeSat from Astra.  I have absolutely no interest in Sky.  The immediate concern is getting my mother-in-laws Croatian satellite subscription working in the UK.  I have a motorised dish to line up with the satellite, but need to be able to read her subscription card.  She spends the winter with us, and the summer over there, and speaks limited English. Then I may be interested in some foreign subscription channles, or maybe not.  I certainly want the option, though, given that I have a motorised dish.

The Croatian channels are the primary concern.

72

Users / Re: How to setup for DVB-S2 reception in the UK?

« on: January 06, 2010, 03:27:15 pm »

I'll have a pop at answering the above;

1. There is no direct support for CAM's etc in LinuxMCE and even in MythTV they should effectively be transparent as all the CAM has to do is enable the chosen channel/service to be accessed. So if your provider allows CAM's and you have a supported one installed then it should just work.... in theory ;-)

2. We have had 4 USB DVB-S2 tuners hung of a Eee Box 202 with a single Core Atom.

All the best

Andrew

Thank you again for that Andrew.

The only thing I don't understand is where to plug the CAM and how to enable it (presumably in a CI slot, presumably part of one of the tuners I need.....DVBWorld have a USB tuner that seems to support a CI module, but I can't find the module, nor do I know how to use it.....).  I know this is all a bit black arts, but it's rather a shame nobody is interested in de-mystifying legitimate use of satellite tuners for the mass market (I have absolutely no knowledge or experience of them in any context - I'm approaching them as new right here...).  With a settop box it's pretty easy to work out, they have a slot in them (if they support a card).  You plug it in there.  Voila!  How you get this legitimate access to subscription channels using the likes of MythTV seems almost impossible to find out.

Not a criticism of anyone here, just an observation of the status of one of the aspects of core functionality used in the project.

73

Users / Re: Is LinuxMCE for me?

« on: January 06, 2010, 12:51:24 pm »

....Surely, it can't be that hard to put LinuxMCE on the same subnet? In my experience, if you don't have any compelling reason to split into subnets, don't.

You have a compelling reason to split it into subnets (if you don't want LinuxMCE to act as your DCHP server on your "work" network).  I promised myself I wouldn't say anything more, because it's really difficult to avoid saying the same things again.

You clearly have some ideas about networking, but they are not what I would describe as modern thinking or good practice.  

Strip it down.  Look at what you want to do on your network.  Look at how LinuxMCE works and what it requires.  Find the easiest way to accomodate the two. (Hint: you'll probably need VLANS, and given your network cabling layout you may need to trunk up various runs, this probably means managed switches.)

There really is nothing wrong with managed switches - the whole world uses them.  They are the backbone of most professional level networks.  If cost is an issue look at comapnies like Tenda - We have a number of their switches in non-critical branches of our network, and haven't had a days problem. Not one single failure (running continuously for over a year without re-boot).

Circa £100 (UKPounds ex. VAT) for a gigabit 16 port managed switch seems very reasonable to me.  I'm sure they used to do an 8 port managed even cheaper, someone else might.  

Given the skill level you alude to, and the huge investment in your existing network, this is so clearly the way to go that I'm staggered that you can't see it.

*************EDIT*************

Here is a Layer 2 8-port managed switch (may not have port trunking, but has VLANS) at a mere £73 (UKPOUNDS) including tax.

74

Users / Re: Is LinuxMCE for me?

« on: January 05, 2010, 12:49:23 pm »

Don't get me wrong here, I love the scope and ambition of the LinuxMCE project. I'd love to help, but I'm not a Linux programmer (yet, I will eventually, but I'm still looking for a nice RAD environment), and at the moment, I have other concerns which fill my time.

The way I see it, LinuxMCE is the by far most ambitious project of its kind, taking it beyond a simple media center into a home center. The modularity and configurability is very imressive indeed.

What I feel, however, is that any single program that wants to control my network is a problem. One such program can probably work nicely, but what happens when the next such program comes along? That's the reason I try to maintain a strict "one program does one thing, and does it good (and that goes double for server software)" and a "each machine only carries a single server service". That way, there's a minimum of collisions, and if a machine dies, only a single function on the network dies, and it will be simpler to replace. It also allows me to replace services one at the time, which minimize the risk of everything becoming very confused.

Also, by trying to do things outside the main scope of the product, such as providing basic network infrastructure, chances are that those odd bits will not be as full featured, as well done and as well maintained as a dedicated program. Just look at Outlook, which I'm forced to use at work. Instead of being a mail client, it's also a customer database, calendar, booking tool, and does neither good. If they had focused their efforts, they could have made a decent mail client, now, instead, it's a crappy mail client, crappy customer database, crappy calendar and a crappy booking tool.

In this case, it does provide some neat features, such as PXE, but it's a bit scary to replace such a vital part of a complex network as the DHCP server. Chances are that there will be problems, and with them, downtime.

As far as I can see you're really missing the point here. Linuxmce is designed to work by taking over DCHP and allowing the media/automation network to be plug and play.  It is designed for adoption in non-technical home networks (although it may not be suitably easy to setup for that role yet....) to work in an exclusive mode on the network.

If you have sufficient network knowledge and skill (not really that much), it is possible to run it on a separate exclusive subnet, which in itself is a relatively simple networking problem.

That's it.  It's that simple.  Set up a subnet and you can use Linuxmce as intended.  You my use lots of words to describe how big smart and efficient your network is.  As you have described it I feel that I could achieve what you want to. It's simple.  S-U-B-N-E-T.  You will almost certainly need at least one managed switch.  This is a consequence off having a complex home networking requirement outside the scope of almost any equivalent project.

If you don't want to do it that way, then that's fine, but you'll probably struggle.  I'm no expert, but I really think it's that simple.

75

Users / Re: Is LinuxMCE for me?

« on: January 04, 2010, 06:30:12 pm »

VLANs are not an option, unless I replace all my switches, as they do not have that capability. Also, in m experience (and one of the larger government agencies of Sweden, which I will not name here), the more configuration options you have on a switch, the more problems you have. Nothing to configure, nothing to go wrong.....

Woah, tiger!

That's just not correct.  For a start managed switches would allow you to trunk up your current small number of available cables to provide a backbone for good bandwidth around your physical network.  Secondly it would allow you to determing what traffic gets prioritised and routed where.  Managed switches would be really useful in your situation.  Some layer 2 gigabit managed switches with all the functionality you might need are quite low cost compared to the setup you have. It's a no-brainer.

The key component in my network infrastructure and separation of subnets is my d-link gigabit managed switch.  I also use them for work.  Not had a single problem in two years.