Messages

1

Users / Re: Workgroup Wiki/Manual

« on: August 28, 2011, 06:39:20 am »

I'd like to help.  I'm new, but I'm a fast learner.

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Users / Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 24, 2011, 08:29:03 am »

This is a great idea! Also I've been wanting to do a reinstall and take notes about my steps from the point of view of a new user. If we could get a bunch of people to do this (with different sets of hardware) perhaps we could:

a) put together a more comprehensive installation/setup guide (one that also deals with the multitude of problems that might be encountered along the way)
b) determine some opportunities for improving the installation experience from a development point of view

I'm definetely up for helping on this one.  I've kept notes over the last week as I've done all my installs.  Fortunately, my capture card and z-wave USB interface are the way, so I can really get into it.

3

Users / Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 23, 2011, 03:29:42 am »

Well you've managed to get through your install - your issues couldn't have been THAT major, considering you made your first post only yesterday. May I ask why you felt you couldn't just ask the relevant questions, and instead signed up a new account (I'm assuming) in order to make these comments anonymously?

As for the wiki, I tried to put myself in the shoes of a brand new user trying to download LMCE for the first time, and I genuinely didn't feel that it was too difficult. I guess the main page could be better organised for people that just want to quickly get up and running, but then that said, this isn't the kind of system that one can just "quickly get up and running". There is a certain amount of reading around/research that should, no, MUST be done before installing. Everybody expects it to be like a standard Ubuntu release i.e. don't do any research, burn it, bang it in the drive, and away you go, no issues. LMCE is not like that, because it's insanely complicated, AND the team working on it is a fraction of the size.

At the end of the day, if you feel that any wiki pages aren't as good as they could be, then why don't you change it? Or if you don't feel happy doing this off the bat, post on the forum for some advice or hold a little poll to see what people think would be best, and THEN make the changes. Either way, it's up to the likes of me and you to do these kinds of tasks, because for people who CAN code, it's not a good use of their time. If they spent all their time updating wiki pages, then you wouldn't have a working install, and we wouldn't now have a RC.

Cheers,
Matt.

Actually, they were pretty major, at least for me.  I would run the install over & over and get different errors and background tasks would hang during the setup wizard.  I’m used to installs going the same way every time and was freaking out when it didn’t.

I originally thought that it was something with my hardware.  I put together a bunch of parts last week, but they’re all mainstream – late ABIT motherboard with a GeForce 8600 video card.  During the first (many) installs last week, I was updating the video driver and following some out of date posts.  Then on Friday, I gave that up, but kept getting into problems with hanging, different results on the same install, etc.  I didn’t find many posts about my errors and I think that led to my frustration.  I would go back to different posts and then watched the YouTube videos again which I think got me the most frustrated.  I felt kind of stupid seeing that others could do this but I couldn’t figure it out.  I just got too frustrated & angry to post any questions.

What made it work for me (and I still did several repeated installs) is finding a post that said that errored out setup wizard installs would be caught up later.  I just decided “good enough” would do the job and it did.  I also relaxed, took a break, let it sit, had patience and took the wizard slow I think helped.

I think I’ll keep my account name as frustrated as a reminder…  :-)

- Nate
edit: fix mb

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Users / Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 22, 2011, 07:11:16 am »

Well I have to really thank all of you for the responses.  In the end, it wasn't a bad discussion and I want you to know that I learned a lot.  So much so, that I got through my install!  I went back and took it one step at a time through the Wiki & instructions, took a break, went slow, and got it done (I did have a few problems, but...)

I'll really make an effort to report my problems and help out.  I do appreciate all that you all do!

Thanks again!

5

Users / Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 21, 2011, 07:54:18 pm »

Yes, LMCE has some arcane ways of doing things. These have been added BECAUSE people wanted to make life easier for the users like you. Well, it backfired. Also, the people who worked on those bits disappeared into the void and LMCE doesn't have much help these days. If you don't like it AND you don't want to be patient and try to work things out, maybe help out a bit, then tough. I'm not saying this because I want to bash you. I'm saying this because this is reality. The things you want to be made easier for you lack staff. No amount of yelling, foot stumping and dropping on the floor screaming like a little kid will fix this. If you do this, the best thing that can happen is be left there until you cool down and realise your technique doesn't work. The worst thing that can happen is being kicked in the stomach while you're down. These days the LMCE developers have a tendency towards the latter, to relieve stress

OK, as I said in my last post I didn’t go about my comments the way I should have; I was pretty frustrated about all the inconsistent results I would get from the same exact installs.  But again, my main points (which were lost in between my rants) are some pretty basic things that could make LMCE easier for newbies to get into:  1. “Download” link takes you to a page with broken links; 2. “Snapshot” link on the Download page takes you to a directory listing with no recommendation on which download to pick; 3. No link (like YouTube videos show previously) to any type of installation instructions until you go to Support, Wiki, Download, instructions;
4. *My Main Point* Why not just tell people that you’re short on help and not to expect the install to work right the first time? Why not tell people to not click too quickly through the setup because background things are still going on?  Tell us to be patient.  Sorry, but the YouTube videos really set you up at a high standard.

As soon as you put things in perspective and realise golgoj4 is a construction worker who took on writing qOrbiter without any programming background, I think you'll agree with me that he has the full right to say "fuck you" with plenty of exclamation marks to your face.
 

I used to be an IT guy (self taught) and now I’m a construction worker!  How do you like that?  In my 18 years in IT (ten years ago – economy here) I never ever responded as unprofessionally as golgoj4’s response even when a user was a jerk like me.  It’s bad PR for the project.  He has to realize that he’s part of the team and his behavior reflects on the entire project.  Sure, I was a *jerk*, but he outdid me by far.  When I do IT stuff (unpaid) for friends and even friends of friends, I don’t get upset when they are confused or even when they get upset.  Sure, I feel it all inside, but never express it to them.

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Users / Re: OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 21, 2011, 03:12:35 am »

Let me reply.

FUCK YOU!!! Clearly, this isnt for you. There is so much misinformation in your post im ok with such a simplistic response. Seriously, yet another crybaby who thinks we work for him. Fraud? Rofl. You are truly clueless. 

Thanks, and I hope you have a nice day. Well, not really.

-langston ball aka 'head of the irrational responses dept'.

Also, I hope your post is stickied as a testament to your ignorance.

Your response is beyond the caliber I expected.  "Yet another crybaby" is a telling phrase that you should reexamine!  If there are this many "crybabies," maybe you're doing something wrong just as I suspected.

Your use of foul language in this situation shows your character too well!  I was civil, can't you be as well?  You’re not a very good representation of the other fine people who I know work hard.

I know that my post was born out of frustration and wasn’t as coherent as I might want, but it is clear that you didn’t take anything positive away from what I had to say.  You have to admit, in every complaint a person hears, there is a bit of useful information that can make a process/product/service better.  I’m sorry you couldn’t see that.

Again, I would like to participate to make the solution better, but with a mouth like your’s, who wants to?  You certainly shouldn’t be in the Marketing Department!

And, I do NOT think you work for me!  Thank God for that!

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Users / OMG, why do you make this so difficult?

« on: August 21, 2011, 02:01:19 am »

I know this is free software and you all put in a lot of time, BUT...

You really should warn people that this is very unstable, inconsistent, and difficult software BEFORE they waste time downloading and installing this LinuxMCE.

There are some really wonderful things in LinuxMCE that I would love to use, but can’t even get the installation/AVwizard to complete consistently without errors.  I have wasted untold number of hours doing repeated installations following severely out of date Wiki instructions.  I have had inconsistent results doing the exact same install.  How can that be?

I know that my post will almost certainly be deleted.  I hope you read all the way through before doing so.

I have read through the forums and found people who have had the same issues that I have had, and on many, no one has responded with help.  I guess that poor sole gave up like I'm doing too.  I have read the Wiki entries which are so far out of date, it's laughable.  I read where someone is seeking help and some other moron suggests that they use the 10.04 – which is even more unstable than 8.04 and isn’t even available on the download page.  What is it with this stuff?

There are multiple 8.04 versions to install, but you have to dig through forum posts to know which one to install.  Install the wrong one and you waste even more time!  Couldn’t the download page just say which one is stable?  Is it really that complex?

The software hangs at different points especially background tasks during the AVWizard.  Speaking of the AVWizard, why on earth do the background tasks display their status right on top of the AVWizard?  Do you know how difficult it is to read the top of the page?

Why can’t the AVWizard just be something the user clicks on (same with the Admin interface?)  Why do they have to be background started processes?  After you get Ubuntu installed, you have to click (or incorrectly double-click as the install Wiki pages tells you) on the LinuxMCE icon (why isn’t it called LinuxMCE Install which would be more obvious.)

It’s pretty obvious to me that when you are doing builds, no one is actually following a checklist which includes following the installation instructions to make sure they still are correct.  I’m sure that most of you are so deep into LinuxMCE that you never follow any of the Wiki.  Why aren’t there installation instructions on the download page?

Why do you have to make this so difficult?  My God, I have never, ever seen such out of date stuff in my life.  8.04 isn’t even released and Ubuntu 8.04 is so far out of support.  Why even release 8.04?  Put all of your energy into 10.04!

I would really love to help, but I fear that I would waste even more time out of my life and still not get anywhere.  I have past UNIX/Linux experience, but I pity the poor fool who has none as still struggles through to a fruitless end!

I love it when someone has a question and someone else points them to user Wiki pages to see who else uses a particular piece of hardware.  You can tell these other folks must have given up because their installation Wiki pages haven’t been changed in 5 years.

I’m really trying to not be as critical as I feel I should.  You are all so proud and put out suspicious videos on YouTube showing how easy it is to install.  IT’S NOT!  Anytime anyone dares to make a critical suggestion, they get dumped on – “did you pay anything for this?”  Of course not, we all know that if someone actually put out good money for this, there would be a lawsuit for sure using the YouTube videos of evidence of fraud.

I understand that with all of the complexities coupled with lots of types of hardware, it makes it very difficult.  You really should tell people to forget using any advanced video card, just stick with VGA until you get it all working.