LinuxMCE Forums

General => Feature requests & roadmap => Topic started by: tekoholic on December 27, 2009, 10:23:00 am

Title: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on December 27, 2009, 10:23:00 am
To begin with, I LOVE LINUXMCE.  PLEASE, do not take this as reason to get defensive, offensive, insulting, or expectant of me to do more than my current abilities would permit me to realistically do.  Take it for what it is:  CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and SUGGESTION of a means to IMPROVE what I believe needs it, where I, PERSONALLY CANNOT write the code (or change the minds of man) to do so.  Believe me, when I'm ready and able, I WILL.

I, awhile back, described (albeit, maybe not very well) how LinuxMCE's Telecom system was broken, on a default install, and how I attempted to upgrade and/or repair it.  I succeeded in the end, and posted the info for documentations' sake (and of course, help if and from where it might be available, was welcome), but was CALLED A LIAR (AND SINCE, HAVE HELPED A FEW WHO HAD SIMILAR TROUBLES, with my findings).

As well, I've suggested ideas of adding the functionalities of Multi-WAN Routing, to the firewall / NAT setup.  MANY folks have asked about OpenVPN capabilities.  My own solution to both has, for quite some time been a (whether physical and seperate, or in virtual machine) system loaded with either pfSense or ZeroShell, that provided both, as there seemed to be nothing with an Ubuntu basis that provided completely.  Problem is, they're both troublesome / problematic, all the way around, in VM, and to dedicate an entire machine to either (with no real room for added features / services) seems a complete waste of a box, and the power to run it, particularly to my tight-wad wife (and wallet)...

As well, I've seen vague claims that LinuxMCE handles e-mail, but no sign that it actually does, and many requests on how to make it do so, with no real solutions...  The Addressbook is awfully difficult to use, the last I looked or heard, and doesn't integrate with much of anything, outside the LMCE system...

I'm not the only one who sees these issues, I hope.  It seems, however, that anytime ANYBODY speaks up about what might be improved, they're given the patent answer, "Either dev it yourself, or STFU and wait until we decide to get around to it..."

I COMPLETELY understand the idea that there are just a few dev's working on this project, and that they can only do so much, in the free time they have in life, and fault NOBODY for it.  However, the attitude I speak of has nearly (if not really) DRIVEN FOLKS AWAY.  I believe that, in and of itself, to be contrary to the very concepts that drive development / business / life forward.

I've RTFMed, and told the ID10Ts to do so, when I felt it appropriate.  Problem is, there's alot that's NOT IN THE FM.  Yet, this attitude still seems to be the main response from those capable of dev'ing / answering the questions for the rest of us, all too often.  Even some of the senior folks, been around since FAR BEFORE ME, have threatened to leave as a result...

Here's my response:  I AIN'T LEAVING.  YOU'LL NOT DRIVE ME AWAY.  I LOVE LINUXMCE, AND WHAT IT WILL DO FOR ME / MY FAMILY / MY CLIENTS.  YOU'LL LEAVE BEFORE I DO, I ASSURE YOU, and it'll be your own negativity that makes it so...  I just pray that I've learned enough to continue this project's improvement, when that happens...

Now, if I may offer a constructive idea, for cooperation with another project, that likely can use LMCE as much as LMCE can use them:

I've recently discovered eBox ( (, and believe that it might just be the answer to much of the lack in the LinuxMCE feature-set, as a home-server.  eBox  provides WORKING Print-, OpenLDAP-, OpenVPN-, and other such services, AND will replace the Multi-WAN, OpenVPN, etc. for which I've previously employed other, more flawed and limited solutions.

A cooperative such as this could also offer their project features that have been requested by some of their users, and all the other things we, as LMCE-Geeks have grown to love...

Any chance of a cooperative development tag-team?
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: dlewis on December 27, 2009, 03:57:54 pm
I won't begin to address all of your points. However, in short, please STAY. DON'T LEAVE! We need your passion for what we've been working on.

As for working with the ebox-platform team, we're always looking for more developers. However, it looks like they might provide some of the same things we already provide (from an initial glance). They do have some features that would beneficial to our platform. Do you know anyone [personally] that works on that team? I would love to discuss further with them. Maybe we could do some sort of collaboration via google summer of code. Please have them contact me:
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on December 27, 2009, 08:05:25 pm

Thank you, for your willingness and support.  I do understand and recognize the areas where the projects coincide.  And, their project currently has a few issues that need worked out.  But, between the 2 projects, I see one heluva' home-server being created.  Whether or not, in fact, we get a collaboration started, I'll be combining the projects on my own gear, if I'm able...

I do not, unfortunately, know anybody personally, that works on the eBox team, and have only discovered the project within the last few days.

I will, however, gladly copy copy and past your posting to their forum, in the hopes that we might get you in touch!!

edit:  @dlewis:  Your post has been linked to eBox forum, and here's a link to their reply to me:
Hope it'll help!!
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: dlewis on December 27, 2009, 09:56:36 pm

Try to reach out to there guys directly as well. After 5 minutes of searching, I found info on CEO:

Here is also other contact information:

I'm sure you can find other contact information. If you want something to happen, you need to be direct...
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on December 27, 2009, 10:24:47 pm
Thanx much.  Honestly, I've no clue how to get started with this sort of thing, and appreciate the guidance.  However, it appears that we are making progress!! (

Guess I'll have to get my IRC set up again, and dig back in!!
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: dlewis on December 27, 2009, 10:35:42 pm
Yes, I'm in the ebox IRC channel speaking with the developers now. They seem to have a large team of developers with a commercial entity behind them (E-Box Technologies). That being said, we will need to look for them to lead this effort, since our developers are swamped with getting our release out. Don't forget we're also doing this on our free time, with no commercial entity backing us :)
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: krys on December 28, 2009, 04:43:24 pm
I just wanted to say that I haven't had a chance to take a look at what ebox can offer us, but I think its a cool idea none the less.... Im sure there are lots of other connections that can be made with other software and its developers that could really benefit LMCE, and I hope to see some of these come to fruition.
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on December 28, 2009, 06:06:54 pm

I agree.  As wonderful as it is, LinuxMCE lacks a bit in the way of things that I would consider part of a smart-home server, some of which it even seems to claim to have.  I'd love to see these things included, or even an element of modularity designed into it, so that modules for the features we DO need/want can be installed, or not.

Anyhow, it appears that dlewis has placed a sticky in the forum, looking for more opportunities such as this, or at the very least, possibly to recruit dev's that are hiding in our midst!  Either way, I hope that this leads somewhere beneficial to all involved!!


Thanx for posting the new sticky!!  I can only BEGIN to imagine, in my hyper-active, chaotic, unfocused and directionless mind, the potential results!!

And of course, thanx again, for your support and assistance with my idea, so far.  BTW, you said either they or I would need to take lead on this.  So far, it appears, they are.  However, I'm ready, albeit clueless, if I must.  I have my end-results clearly in mind, but no clue how to get there (story of my life)...  I'm in both IRC channels 24/7 now, on my main server (never goes down, unless necessary, is my primary working box, and will eventually be my Hybrid), and am ready for whatever!!

edit:  wow, seems I've lied to ya'!  Can't get Quassel to rejoin the channels, now, after a major Office/Lab reoganization last night, to accomodate better for my attempts to keep organized, and assist with this...  dammit!!  I'll get back on ASAP...
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: dlewis on December 28, 2009, 06:11:25 pm

Since you state you won't be able to contribute via development, I ask that you assist me with keeping in contact with the ebox guys... They have their own project to focus on and I assume this integration isn't a "priority" so I need for us to keep on top of them to look at LinuxMCE, see how it can be integrated and begin the development... We can assist them with understanding the code, but again, we're swamped right now with getting the release out. The more persistent you are with them, the sooner this can get going...
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on December 28, 2009, 06:19:15 pm
You got it!!  I'm good at (as if you aren't yet aware) annoying people!!

BTW, I've also got what I'd consider a heluva' dev-capable setup here, and both my son and I are learning as we can...  Hopefully soon...

And, I'm back in IRC.  Guess freenode doesn't like SSL, or at least doesn't like mine...  lol
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: dlewis on December 29, 2009, 02:43:29 pm

I've been conversing with 'bencer' (developer) and '_Josh_' (developer and release manager) on IRC. 'jsalamero' (developer) on the forum seems like he's also interested in this integration. To help these guys out, please do a detailed comparison of the features ebox has and LinuxMCE has (also listing what applications/packages we both use for said feature). Here is a good place to start for ebox features:

For LinuxMCE, please look through the wiki, trac, AND the forum. I say the forum because some users have developed features that aren't in the current build and aren't in trac.

Doing this will give the ebox developers a head-start on deciding how to integrate with LinuxMCE. Thanks!

Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: acald on January 21, 2010, 04:53:08 pm
This is AWESOME.  8) I'm giddy with glee.  :o  I've have been using both platforms and have wondered the same thing.  Both have some work to be done.  (especially with regards to full asterisk integration) but they are two wonderful products that together would be tremendous. 

I well laid out home these days is like a small business with multiple computer integration/control and a central server needed to consolidate data (whether it is documents or media).  I could see the install of ebox including an additional "role" of LinuxMCE on the main install page.  Right now at one small business, we were working on the best way to install a music system for the owner (its a car dealer and he wants to be able to jazz up the lot on weekends) so that he or the manager can control it from the desktop and still leave the music server in the rack.  I kept thinking to myself LinuxMCE along side of the ebox.

I would be willing to help out where needed. I see this as a win-win situation for everybody.
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: Enigmus on January 22, 2010, 05:54:57 pm
Just wanted to add my appreciation for this effort.  Just looking over the Ebox feature list, it has all the things that I have been wanting incorporated into the LMCE system.  VPN, LDAP, Domain Authentication, Backups, and host of other things.  To be honest the web inferface looks a bit cleaner too.  I hope everything is going well with this.  I hope this cooperation effort works out.
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: bongowongo on February 02, 2010, 04:33:57 pm
Any updates?
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: Enigmus on February 04, 2010, 05:57:16 pm
2nd that request.  Any news?  How is the feeling from the ebox team?
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: tekoholic on June 02, 2010, 08:57:54 pm
@ bongowongo, enigmus, acald, dlewis:

I apologize for my lack of presence and updates, but there really isn't much in the way of integration going to be practical or likely, yet, for the following reasons:

1. eBox is developed, almost exclusively, for the LTS Releases of Ubuntu.  The packages that have been available for non-LTS Releases have been buggy as hell at best, disastrously inoperable at worst, and that's not likely to change, as I see things.

2. LMCE is currently being developed on non-LTS (hopefully to change soon), and isn't too friendly with the idea of changing or replacing any of it's networking / DHCP / DNS features, and I've no idea how to make it friendlier.

Personally, I'd like to see SOME of LMCE's features made more modular, as eBox's modules are.  If we were able to choose to install the modules of our choice (ie: Cake-Walk for users, PITA for geeks, or some such), or just disable certain features on the web-admin, to reduce interference between the 2 separate projects on the same box, that'd help.

Unfortunately, until then, there's not much I can do, short of running one in a Virtualbox upon the other.  I've tried to dig in, tried to get others on both sides with more dev skill involved, and burned myself out on my failure with both.

I'm back, and still hoping to see this idea gain support.  I've had to back-burner it for the sake of self- and marriage-preservation, however, at least until we become LTS-based, and/or more devs (on both sides) get involved.
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: Enigmus on June 03, 2010, 09:30:56 pm
I appreciate the update on the status.  I would imagine that LMCE's move to LTS would be the deciding factor.  If that was done then this would be a possibility.  I hope that will become reality in the semi-near future.
Title: Re: Attitude of COOPERATION.
Post by: posde on August 17, 2010, 12:08:46 am
The posts regarding meego have been split off into a new thread.