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General => Users => Topic started by: sq8ijk on November 19, 2009, 02:09:40 am

Title: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: sq8ijk on November 19, 2009, 02:09:40 am
Hello,
I was reading back and forward all the topics about using two network cards, but I am wondering how to set up core correctly when the modem which is provided by my ISP is an all-in-one DSL modem with router, 4 port switch and build in access point.
 In my setup I will have:
  - n800 tablet with Internet access, to access the MD (wifi connection)
  - one computer with Internet access, to access the MD through the generic weborbiter (ethernet connected to the switch)
  - one netbook with Internet access, to access the MD through the generic weborbiter (wifi connection)
  - NAS connected (ethernet connected to the switch)

I was planning to connect the MD to the 4 port switch in the router and also core to that switch together with NAS and extra computer, so all ports in the switch will be occupied and let the core give the DHCP addresses. Add one virtual NIC to the core, so it will go through the same utp6 cable to the switch, configure the first NIC to access the internet and the second one connected to the same switch to access the rest of the devices at home on another subnet running the dhcp server.

I am wondering if the wifi connected devices will get the DHCP addresses from the core in such setup.

I am trying to reduce the number of toys/hardware in this setup and I am reluctant to buy yet another switch and access point. Please let me know what do you think
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: jimbodude on November 19, 2009, 05:13:40 am
Connect core's external NIC to modem/router.  Set a static IP address for the core's external network address.  Open firewall for HTTP and orbiter.  Configure n810 normally, using core's external IP and the WiFi network.

Connect NAS to core's internal network, as well as any other MDs or storage devices.  You need another switch for the internal network... They are less than $50.

Internal network will get DHCP from Core.  External will get DHCP from router.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: colinjones on November 19, 2009, 09:27:20 pm
but seriously, rather than trying to hack the design of the solution.... when you buy the switch for the internal network, make sure it has a wireless AP feature and dump the wireless on your DSL modem... it has wireless... so what? Disable it and place your wireless access inside the LMCE network. Your design will not work, it is pushing up hill, and absolutely waaay too complex when the solution is so much simpler....

You are completely re-engineering the wheel and producing a "solution" that will not work purely driven by the fact that you have been given a 4 port switch and AP for free! Don't, just move on!

Here - http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Network_Setup
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: jimbodude on November 19, 2009, 09:34:50 pm
The solution I suggested is what I used to use every day.  It works just fine.  It takes more work and thought to set up, but I enjoy being able to take down the core at any time without worrying about shutting off internet access to the whole house...

I agree with your comment on having wireless on the internal network, though - that saves a lot of headaches and configuration work.  I have 2 wireless networks - one for the internal, one for the external - running on non-overlapping channels (1 and 11 I believe).  This is the only change I've made since using the setup I suggested.

The bottom line is - you can make it as simple or complex as you want... It's regular network traffic.  So long as you have the will and the knowledge - have fun.

I forgot about that page colinjones, good link.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: dcubox1 on April 08, 2010, 09:12:55 pm
Ok im bumping a real old topic but I tried looking for the answer to my issue and this was the best I could find!!!

My issue is I currently have a hybrid and im about to put in my second NIC and while I get all the stuff on the Network Setup
http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Network_Setup (http://wiki.linuxmce.org/index.php/Network_Setup)
I cant get my head around how I will have internet access on my other PC's when the hybrid is powered off!!
I dont want it to be on the whole time and really dont want others in my house nagging me all the time that the internet is down!!

I have a number of all-in-one routers that I would like some suggestions on how to setup a network where all the time internet is possible
but also allow me to have my LinuxMCE network too when I need it!!

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: davidsmoot on April 08, 2010, 09:34:14 pm
This topic interests me too.  If I bring the network down to play with LMCE, it annoys the family. (if momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy).

The wiki page shows two variations where the core is between the cable modem and all the other network users.  If the core hiccups, everyone loses internet until you fix it or reconfigure.

I think I understand Jimbodude's comment... you can run two separate networks.  Your "everybody network" that has a direct path to the internet through a router and your "LMCE network" that has all your LMCE devices.  Your core lives on both networks and is the gateway to the outside for devices on the LMCE network.  As long as your core gets a fixed IP on its "everybody" side and allows port 80 connections incoming, orbiters on the "everybody network" can point to that fixed IP and control the core.

The downside is every network resource either lives on one side or the other or you have to know how to do all the plumbing to bridge them. 

My solution:  Use the standard "core as the gateway" configuration and get a long oddly colored cable for the patch between your cable modem and the core.  If the internet does not work and I am not there to troubleshoot it, I just tell my wife to pull the long yellow cable from the core and plug it straight into her laptop. 

David
 
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: rperre on April 08, 2010, 11:38:46 pm
I'm running two networks myself, too many times i have to restart the core and the family is on the internet. Real con is to me that i am having to run 2 NAS boxes right now. 1 for lmce media and 1 for documents and other stuff we need daily.
A pro is that no matter what happens with the core and/or md, the internet still works for all users

But davidsmoot option is great imo for a quick fix until you get home to fix the real problem.

dcubox1 you just need to use the option
                                                                                                                   ----MD1
                                                   _---eth0----Hybrid ----eth1-----router2------[  ----MD2
Internet------Modem-------Router1{ _
                                                    -------Rest of the network

If you have a NAS connected that you use both ways, it's going to be difficult

Richard
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: phenigma on April 09, 2010, 12:21:38 am
I use a NAS with dual NIC in it, one connected to the lmce network and one to my other network.  I use an ubuntu PC but there are standalone NAS devices with dual NICs as well. Check my sig below for the link to my user page on the wiki I have a diagram of how my network is setup, it's a little complicated compared to most but works great.

J.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: dcubox1 on April 09, 2010, 01:31:41 am
                                                                                                                   ----MD1
                                                   _---eth0----Hybrid ----eth1-----router2------[  ----MD2
Internet------Modem-------Router1{ _
                                                    -------Rest of the network
Richard

Richard, Thanks for the Reply.... Your Rest of Network, how does that work with DCHP turned off, I tired this but the wireless netbooks dont connect to the internet!!
AM i doing someting wrong!!?
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: tschak909 on April 09, 2010, 02:00:56 am
GUYS!
STOP DOING THIS!

Please! just use the system as it is meant to be used, put everything on one network, let the core control and provision. It really does work!

Damn it, I'm getting _VERY_ tired of yelling at you all.

-Thom
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 09, 2010, 09:14:03 am
Thom,

I too am getting very tired of seeing this come up time and time again. Every time, I see it, I just wait for one of your infamous "*Thwack*"'s ;)

BUT

The fact is that MCE is still Beta. The fact is that when you update, you sometimes break things. The fact is that if you use it "as designed" (at the moment) you are introducing a single point of failure that is, at bast, a little flakey.

I'm still playing and so have to wait for a "lull" in the family's internet use before I (secretly) swap everyone to the internal network for some testing. I cannot, however, afford for the internet to stop working when I'm at work, so I always swap them all back when I've finished.

I WANT to follow the rules. I WANT to avoid *Thwacks*. I WANT to not have to re-think it all, but at the moment I CAN'T (at least not if my marriage is to survive!)

Jut my 10 Eurocents.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: Zaerc on April 09, 2010, 10:27:18 am
Thom,

I too am getting very tired of seeing this come up time and time again. Every time, I see it, I just wait for one of your infamous "*Thwack*"'s ;)

BUT

The fact is that MCE is still Beta. The fact is that when you update, you sometimes break things. The fact is that if you use it "as designed" (at the moment) you are introducing a single point of failure that is, at bast, a little flakey.

I'm still playing and so have to wait for a "lull" in the family's internet use before I (secretly) swap everyone to the internal network for some testing. I cannot, however, afford for the internet to stop working when I'm at work, so I always swap them all back when I've finished.

I WANT to follow the rules. I WANT to avoid *Thwacks*. I WANT to not have to re-think it all, but at the moment I CAN'T (at least not if my marriage is to survive!)

Jut my 10 Eurocents.
If you use beta software for a production environment you are an idiot and deserve everything you get.

And there's my 2 eurocent.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: davidsmoot on April 09, 2010, 03:08:10 pm
I've got another idea to float at the risk of angering the powers that be :).  Sort of complicated and not even sure if I can configure it this way.

I've got one of those "open" 802.11n routers that is supported by dd-wrt http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page).  One of the "features" you can do with dd-wrt is you apparently can configure it to treat the wireless LAN and the wired LAN as separate networks: http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Separate_LAN_and_WLAN (http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Separate_LAN_and_WLAN).

I could then run two networks, wired and wireless with two separate DHCP servers but going through the same gateway to the outside world.  Still trying to decide if all this extra work is worth it but I have no feel for how stable the core as the sole path to the internet is. 

Internet access has become a necessity at my house, just like electricity and running water.  My family expects it to "just work" and will call my cell if it doesn't so I am hesitant to make the core my single point failure for everyone.

You know now that I think about it, the simplest answer is probably just keep a spare cheap wireless router handy with the same SSID and keys configured but just unplugged.  If the core goes down, just unplug the yellow cable from the core and plug it into the spare router and turn it on.  Then all the wireless clients are back up and running until I can fix the core.  I've got a decent G router on the shelf I could set up.  That's my plan :)

David
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: jimbodude on April 09, 2010, 03:21:28 pm
I use a segmented network 100% of the time with no loss of functionality.  It is definitely the way to go for people who are not familiar with LinuxMCE.

Segmented network brings the following complexities:
- Configuring LinuxMCE services for outside access is more difficult, since you have 2 firewalls to get through instead of one
- Devices on the "non-LinuxMCE" network can't directly see devices on the "LinuxMCE" network without additional configuration
- You need 2 wireless access points - one for internal network, and one for external

None of these are very big issues for me, and I'm guessing others would agree.  Anyone working with LinuxMCE is probably smart enough to use port forwarding on their router and use the firewall configuration page in the LinuxMCE web-admin.  These are both fairly basic concepts, which you should understand before opening services to the internet anyway.  Since my core has picked up all my storage devices on the LinuxMCE network, I can access them centrally via the core's network shares.  Since the core has a single static IP on the "non-LinuxMCE" network, this is actually easier than tracking 2-3 NAS servers plus the core's onboard storage.  The folders within the shares also update when I add new storage devices, so I don't need to reconfigure clients at all.  For this to work, you simply need to open the samba ports in the LinuxMCE firewall configuration page.  Adding a wireless AP to the internal network is fairly trivial - I have a nice Cisco Aironet that is doing the job well, and I've also used wireless routers with the router/DCHP/DNS features deactivated.

The pros are many:
- Although I find the reliability of the core very high (I've had more problems with my router than my core), it is comforting to some users to have a device they know well at the edge of their network - whatever.
- I don't like the idea of having a server that is a file server for all kinds of stuff, has full access to all the other machines on my network via file shares, and has stored ssh keys for all systems on the edge of my network.
- Keeping the LinuxMCE network separate means that I can do LinuxMCE-related work that may put the stability of the network in jeopardy without worrying about other non-techies in the home loosing a connection
- I don't accidentally net-boot at least 2 of my systems, which refuse to disable PXE boot
- In the rare occasion that the core is having trouble, or I decide to reinstall I still have a reliable and uninterrupted internet connection

While I completely understand and agree with the need for the core to be a gateway device, I disagree that it must be a gateway directly to the internet.  That requirement is simply incorrect.

I, too, am fed up with this conversation.  I believe I described this approach on the wiki at one time, but it has been changed to something like "no, you must do it the only way that it will work".  For such a simple issue, there is really too much talk about it.  As far as I'm concerned, people should do whatever works well for them and makes them happy.  If there is an easier way, then they should probably do it that way, but I'm not going to tell anyone to do anything.  If you want to play network god in your home, that sounds fine to me so long as you don't blame your complex network on me.  If you want to put your core on the edge, then things will work fine.  If you want to set up a segmented network, then things will also work fine.  There is no need for thwacking over this subject.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: jimbodude on April 09, 2010, 03:22:33 pm
I've got another idea to float at the risk of angering the powers that be :).  Sort of complicated and not even sure if I can configure it this way.

This sounds way too complex to me... but if you think you would get enjoyment out of doing it, have a ball.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: pw44 on April 09, 2010, 10:57:55 pm
Well, very simple for me:
1) router with tomato - my working notebook, lmce (external nic) and my soundbridge plugged to it.
2) on the lmce internal NIC, a 1Gb switch and wireless AP, sip phones, security camera, md plugged on this switch
router firewall configured with forwarding rules, and lmce firewall with open ports for remote access.
All works well.
Not complicated.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: phenigma on April 09, 2010, 11:22:19 pm
GUYS!
STOP DOING THIS!

Please! just use the system as it is meant to be used, put everything on one network, let the core control and provision. It really does work!

Damn it, I'm getting _VERY_ tired of yelling at you all.

-Thom

If you use beta software for a production environment you are an idiot and deserve everything you get.

And there's my 2 eurocent.


So which is it then?  What is the developers consensus?  If I do as Thom says and put the core in control of everything then I would be an idiot as Zaerc says...  Excellent.  You have both been working on this system for a long time and people look to you both for guidance.  How are users supposed to know what to do now?

J.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: trentend on April 10, 2010, 12:03:10 am
I think it's relatively simple.

LinuxMCE is designed to be a consumer level all-in-one solution.  So connect it as the wiki suggests to your router and it will work (mainly, once you've twiddled with it a bit).  for most people this is all that you will need.

There are other people, who have specific requirements, and specific knowledge, that may use it in other non-supported (as much as anything is around here) ways.  Personally I have a problem with any one element being a single point of failure, as I have a problem with essential systems relying on computers/servers.  So what I have is a series of self-contained systems that work without any requirement for server level control.  I have a self contained heating control system, a knx based electrical and intrusion detection system (door sensors and PIR's), a 1-wire sensing system, a separate asterisk server integrated with POTS. I have quad LNB's on my satellite dishes so that they can run a setop box as well as DVB-S2 tuners in LinuxMCE.  I have purchased other items (like my Onkyo receiver) so that they give me what I want as a stand alone unit, as well as being capable of being integrated into LinuxMCE.  I have put together these items, and planned the construction and layout of my house in such a way that everything works without LinuxMCE, but can do more and work better with it.  I have not placed all my eggs in one basket - for example my heating control system has an integrated webserver with the capability for remote control, but I have also wired so that I could replace the thermostats, timers, and valves with KNX units if I later choose to go down that route.  I also have allowed for z-wave capability if KNX doesn't meet all of my needs.  I have a lot of spare power and CAT6 dotted around the place.  I have TV aerials, radio aerials (dab and FM) as well as my eight satellite feeds (from two separate dishes, one motorised).  I'm just not the sort of person to rely on one critical system working.

In addition to my LinuxMCE network I have a need for a work network (I work from home and integrate using vps with a number of sites that I administer from an IT perspective).  The scope of LinuxMCE just does not meet my needs in this area.  So my intention is to split LinuxMCE and my work network using VLANS over a Level2 smart switch (I've been working on that today, actually).  My router will connect to both subnets (work and LinuxMCE) but LinuxMCE will totally control, as designed, the home subnet.

I need it to work this way.  I may very well get shouted at here, and I expect it to require a lot of time and effort on my part to get it working, but then this is a long slow project for me and I accept that.

So that's where you need to be.  You either need to use the system as designed and take recommendations on equipment that it is known works well with LinuxMCE (something that I have found difficult to achieve in Europe when most of the available advice doesn't always apply as well), or you need to define your own requirements and be prepared to do your own legwork to get it working.

LinuxMCE is a marvelous piece of work almost without peer.  That does not mean that I agree with all design decisions, nor with what is well supported and what is poorly integrated or supported.  The framework is there to make it something special though, and I'm going to have a crack at making it work for me. 

If you really want an easy push to play system, then you need to speak to one of the system integrators and buy an off the shelf system.  If you want to do something against that intended usage of the developers you have to accept that you are on your own - they're stretched enough as it is.  Having said that, I believe that LinuxMCE can integrate with my requirements for a system, and my needs are outside the intended scope of LinuxMCE as designed.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 10, 2010, 02:08:01 am
If you use beta software for a production environment you are an idiot and deserve everything you get.
Good point, well made. As I see it, there are four options currently open:
So, guys, as phenigma says, which is it then? Thom, Zaerc, use 810 or not?
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: totallymaxed on April 10, 2010, 06:51:59 pm
If you use beta software for a production environment you are an idio
t and deserve everything you get.
Good point, well made. As I see it, there are four options currently open:
  • Wait. Either use something else, or use nothing until 810 is "released".
  • Use 710. This is the only released version, but if you try to use it and ask questions, you are told in no uncertain terms to go with 810 as 710 is dead.
  • Be creative. That's what this thread (and others like it) are about. You do, however, risk breaking it all and getting a *thwack* from Thom  ;)
  • Go with 810 Beta. But then, as Zaerc says, you are an idiot.
So, guys, as phenigma says, which is it then? Thom, Zaerc, use 810 or not?

Look as ever life is never quite a 'black & white' as that. We continue to ship stable 7.10 based Dianemo/Cascade systems that have about 95% of the 810 code integrated and working. These systems are designed to work 24/7 365 days a year and they do.

However if your someone who wants to mess around with your system from time to time...and you cause it to fail or have to take it offline from time to time... and you have a girlfriend or family then this may cause some friction ;-). So in those cases the various suggestions in this thread for 'insulating' yourself from the wrath of your significant others are valid. But in each case you are potentially creating a situation where you are adding complexity and distancing yourself from any support you might expect to get from the forum because your system is 'non standard'. But if your happy to support yourself technically then go for it.

Alternatively just make it possible to re-jig your LAN so that you can easily turn on DHCP on another device if you need to take your Core off-line for a while (thats what I do at home if I am testing something or need to change some hardware).

All the best

Andrew
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 10, 2010, 10:20:23 pm
Valid points, Andrew (as always ;) )

I think these comments came about because of Zaerc and Thom's apparently opposing viewpoints. In all honesty, if I had the $$$ I'd beat a path to your door and purchase Dianemo/Cascade. I don't however, so I'm left with the forums as my support and a choice between Thom telling me to upgrade, Zaerc telling me not to, and doing something different whilst sheltering from the fallout :D

What I do see, however, is that I'm not alone in my frustration.....
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: Zaerc on April 11, 2010, 02:37:23 am
I made a general statement, and I stand by it. 

I said nothing about linuxmce, or the new version taking long to emerge, or the old version no longer being supported simply because the people who developed it are long gone (and never bothered to support anyone except the fiire customers anyway).  I never told anyone to upgrade or not, and as far as I know my views do not conflict with Thom's as I doubt he'd recommend anyone to use the beta version for a production environment that people depend on.

However some of the "clever" people around here seem to think that using a beta version gives them the right to bitch about their production systems getting fucked up.  Newsflash: your family and the abuse you put them through is no concern of ours.  And unless you are actually helping to get a release out the door you'd probably be better off keeping your frustration to yourself.  Now does that clear things up a bit?


Anyway, the simple emergency solution to faillure?

modem (DHCP) <---> LMCE (DHCP) <---> switch <---> ...

When the core breaks connect the switch directly to the modem.

modem (DHCP) <-------------------------> switch <---> ...

So one wire replug and a DHCP refresh later and everyone has internet again. 
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 11, 2010, 10:07:14 am
Zaerc,

I think offence is being taken when none is intended. This thread (as far as I can tell) started, like so many similar ones, by people trying to support each other in making the system more reliable whilst in beta. It attracted, as always, criticism and this discussion ensued.
And unless you are actually helping to get a release out the door you'd probably be better off keeping your frustration to yourself.
Please remember that help is not just sitting there coding. Without people trying to use it and having issues, a lot of the problems would not be found prior to release, that's what beta is all about (I've often heard it said that the world is Micro$oft's Beta test site ;)) In my own case, I'm having problems with the PXE boot of my MDs (I'm not alone, from what I've seen on the threads). As well as asking for help here, I am investigating elsewhere and, if I find the solution, I will report it and hopefully it will be integrated into the release. Is that not helping in some small way?

For my own part, I thought your comment about using Beta software seemed to conflict with other comments (not only from Thom) about not bothering with 710 and just going to 810. Maybe I misunderstood.

Anyway, I think enough has been said on this subject. There are clearly strongly held views! It is also clear that some people (for various reasons) need or want to use the system non-standard. I don't see that they should be prevented from discussing their needs here thoigh....
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: Zaerc on April 11, 2010, 04:16:53 pm
Zaerc,

I think offence is being taken when none is intended. This thread (as far as I can tell) started, like so many similar ones, by people trying to support each other in making the system more reliable whilst in beta. It attracted, as always, criticism and this discussion ensued.
And unless you are actually helping to get a release out the door you'd probably be better off keeping your frustration to yourself.
Please remember that help is not just sitting there coding. Without people trying to use it and having issues, a lot of the problems would not be found prior to release, that's what beta is all about (I've often heard it said that the world is Micro$oft's Beta test site ;)) In my own case, I'm having problems with the PXE boot of my MDs (I'm not alone, from what I've seen on the threads). As well as asking for help here, I am investigating elsewhere and, if I find the solution, I will report it and hopefully it will be integrated into the release. Is that not helping in some small way?

For my own part, I thought your comment about using Beta software seemed to conflict with other comments (not only from Thom) about not bothering with 710 and just going to 810. Maybe I misunderstood.

Anyway, I think enough has been said on this subject. There are clearly strongly held views! It is also clear that some people (for various reasons) need or want to use the system non-standard. I don't see that they should be prevented from discussing their needs here thoigh....

So how exactly do you expect that making a complicated mess of your home network will actually help with PXE booting?

And who or what is preventing anyone from discussing their needs then?  Surely not my remark about using beta software for a production environment... Or does that imply that only they are entitled to an opinion?

Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 11, 2010, 05:25:45 pm
So how exactly do you expect that making a complicated mess of your home network will actually help with PXE booting?
This is, believe me, unrelated. At present, I have not (personally) made any changes to my network and have been using a similar aproach to the one you outlined with moving cables (the main difference is that when I'm not there, MCE is out of the loop). The PXE boot issue is discussed elsewhere and it would be silly to make comment here. If you think you can help, please take a look at this thread http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9862.0 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9862.0)
And who or what is preventing anyone from discussing their needs then?  Surely not my remark about using beta software for a production environment... Or does that imply that only they are entitled to an opinion?
Nobody is preventing it per-se, but do comments like
GUYS!
STOP DOING THIS!

Please! just use the system as it is meant to be used, put everything on one network, let the core control and provision. It really does work!

Damn it, I'm getting _VERY_ tired of yelling at you all.

-Thom
Actually encourage discussion?

Anyway, like I said, I think this discussion has run its course. and has certainly digressed from the OP's original question!
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: tschak909 on April 11, 2010, 05:35:52 pm
Yeah, I am sorry. I'm just frustrated when people take this system into areas where it was never intended to be supported, and people do not contribute patches so that the system CAN DO this in a supported manner...

-Thom
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: rperre on April 11, 2010, 06:36:21 pm
I understand the frustration, but my setup does no harm to the lmce setup, which in my house is a completely separate network including it's own wireless (running 2 wireless in my house), biggest thing to me is that i can work on the system whenever i want to, and don't interrupt others that are on the internet. I'm not saying it's perfect, but in my case and maybe others it's a good solution with it's con's.

And to answer the question about dhcp, i am running 2 dhcp servers, 1 on the router behind the modem and the other one is the Core going to the lmce network. So the Core's eth0 get's an IP from that router, and this same router gives IP's to the "rest of the network". The Core than gives IP's to the lmce network over the eth1 nic. Hope this explains it.

With that said, when i'm satisfied with the system and it's running stable, i will put the Core as the main entry to my house and put everything on the lmce network saving me a bunch of switches and cabling.

BTW the NAS with dual NIC's sounds interesting in my case, thanks.

Richard
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: Zaerc on April 12, 2010, 03:38:55 am
So how exactly do you expect that making a complicated mess of your home network will actually help with PXE booting?
This is, believe me, unrelated. At present, I have not (personally) made any changes to my network and have been using a similar aproach to the one you outlined with moving cables (the main difference is that when I'm not there, MCE is out of the loop). The PXE boot issue is discussed elsewhere and it would be silly to make comment here. If you think you can help, please take a look at this thread http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9862.0 (http://forum.linuxmce.org/index.php?topic=9862.0)
If you believe that is unrelated, then why bring it up in the first place?

And who or what is preventing anyone from discussing their needs then?  Surely not my remark about using beta software for a production environment... Or does that imply that only they are entitled to an opinion?
Nobody is preventing it per-se, but do comments like
GUYS!
STOP DOING THIS!

Please! just use the system as it is meant to be used, put everything on one network, let the core control and provision. It really does work!

Damn it, I'm getting _VERY_ tired of yelling at you all.

-Thom
Actually encourage discussion?

Anyway, like I said, I think this discussion has run its course. and has certainly digressed from the OP's original question!
So now people aren't allowed to have an opinion which discourages other people from making a mess of things?
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: wierdbeard65 on April 12, 2010, 04:06:47 am
Man, you're really looking for an argument, aren't you?
If you believe that is unrelated, then why bring it up in the first place?
I mentioned this in relation to your comment saying people who aren't helping should just shut up.
So now people aren't allowed to have an opinion which discourages other people from making a mess of things?
If you read the rest of the thread, you'll see even Thom accepted he was a little agressive on that one!
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: Zaerc on April 12, 2010, 03:39:26 pm
Man, you're really looking for an argument, aren't you?
Unlike you apparently. :P

If you believe that is unrelated, then why bring it up in the first place?
I mentioned this in relation to your comment saying people who aren't helping should just shut up.
I'm not the one bringing up unrelated issues, just to turn around and say they aren't related.  And where exactly am I telling anyone to "just shut up"?

So now people aren't allowed to have an opinion which discourages other people from making a mess of things?
If you read the rest of the thread, you'll see even Thom accepted he was a little agressive on that one!
Now you are just making stuff up, I have read the this entire thread, I don't see Thom "accepting" anything.  But I guess that is your way of confirming that people aren't allowed to voice an opinion which discourages other people from making a mess of things.  In other words you're the one telling them to shut up (pot, kettle, surprise!).  And how exactly does that encourage discussion?


And would you mind not distorting what other people say?  Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: trentend on April 12, 2010, 03:49:44 pm
I think we should all calm down a bit.

LinuxMCE is an incredible project. The developers, though very stretched, do an excellent job and are much appreciated by those such as me who are not in a position to help with the development.  Nevertheless it's not perfect, and there are clearly challenges in the pace of development and the accessibility of information.  Setting up LinuxMCE isn't easy. Developing for it is clearly a nightmare. At the same time the more people who are encouraged to try it and find their own needs, the more it will be tested, and expanded.

We should all try to encourage each other, and move forward.  There isn't enough spare effort going around to waste it on arguments, particularly if it discourages people from getting involved.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: jimbodude on April 12, 2010, 04:55:57 pm
This discussion is useless and circular.

This is an open source project.  People can, and should, do whatever they want with it.

If people are frequently showing up to this project looking for things that it does not support, then there is a documentation issue.  Getting all pissed off on a forum is a waste of effort - spend that time updating the documentation that has mislead the user instead.

The issue that this thread was opened for - network configuration - is a ridiculously simple issue that should not attract so much attention and argument.  The number of times I've heard this issue reexplained on the forums, IRC, and wiki is ridiculous.  I suggest that instead of continuing yet another circular argument over the subject that those parties who have strong opinions organize themselves and update the documentation to avoid future confusion of new users.

I am willing to volunteer some time to organizing such an effort, and I would be willing to contribute to the discussion.  Let me know if there is interest, and if I should organize such an effort.
Title: Re: Network layout question - all-in-one router.
Post by: tschak909 on April 12, 2010, 05:26:27 pm
cool. Thanks. Sorry, I aggravated the issue.

-Thom